The episodes without Kate are unbearable - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TV Guy · 03-21-2020, 07:14 PM

MeTV has gotten to the latter half of season 5, where Kate is missing (and before Aunt Helen shows up). These episodes are just awful. I can’t remember if it’s better when Rosemary DeCamp shows up as Helen. But Kate’s unifying presence is sorely missed right now. The show doesn’t work without her. At all.

OH Nuts! · 03-21-2020, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV Guy

MeTV has gotten to the latter half of season 5, where Kate is missing (and before Aunt Helen shows up). These episodes are just awful. I can’t remember if it’s better when Rosemary DeCamp shows up as Helen. But Kate’s unifying presence is sorely missed right now. The show doesn’t work without her. At all.

I totally agree. Kate was the heart and soul of the show!

TV Guy · 03-22-2020, 07:36 AM

I’ve posted this before, but back in the days when the B&W episodes were sitting on the shelf, having all of those non-Kate episodes in the syndication package really hurt the show’s reputation. You only had two full seasons with her before she started missing shows.

Oh well, thankfully we can see her entire run on the show these days. But will stop recording the MeTV shows until they cycle back to the beginning.

Hazel Anyday · 03-22-2020, 08:36 PM

Certainly the shows were at their best when Kate was there. But the shows were still worth watching just for Uncle Joe and his antics not to mention the irresistible Lori Sanders or whichever Blankey-Jo she was.

But reality is what it is and I think the closest and best replacement for Kate was Rosemary DeCamp. Her character resembled Kate and was most like her, good sense and loving at the same time. I think the show could have gone on almost like it was had Rosemary stayed on for the rest of the run. I don't know if it was Rosemary's decision or the producer's decision to have Rosemary leave the show, but it was a big mistake.

As much as I like June Lockart (Lochart?) in Lassie and Lost In Space, she was perfect in those 2 shows, she was just wrong in Petticoat Junction, didn't seem to be part of that gang of characters at all.

Duster76 · 03-22-2020, 11:28 PM

Interesting comments.

With respect to season 5, that must have been a very difficult year for what seemed like a close knit cast. Charlie played by Smiley Burnette had passed away after the conclusion of season 4, so that black cloud hangs over the show as season 5 begins (his passing is indirectly referenced in the second episode of season 5). Then Bea Benaderet takes ill missing 10 or so episodes in a row battling the illness that would take her life. The writers had to rewrite scenes and episodes on the fly as the magnitude of the health challenges ahead for the star who was also the heart and soul of the show came into clear focus. Bea wasn't just the star she was one of the most underrated talents in television history. Her body of work in television between 1950 and her death in 1968 is amazing. She was a regular on 5 different series plus the voice over actress for Betty Rubble. the only season she was not working on a series from 1950 on was the 59-60 television season. She was trained by the Mount Rushmore of comedy talent, the three Bs, Ball, Benny and Burns and she learned her lessons very well. She was a master at double-takes, line delivery and comic timing. It's no reflection on DeCamp or Lockhart, but Bea was one of a kind.

I give the entire production team and on screen talent a great deal of credit for dealing with the behind the scene circumstances. There were many good episodes in season 5, and the final episode of season 5 is a love letter to the star who would appear in only three more episodes of the series.

TV Guy · 03-23-2020, 11:47 AM

Agreed on Benaderet being underrated. She was a huge talent. And “Kate’s Homecoming” is a great episode. I wish the series had ended there. I believe it was the producers’ decision - not Rosemary DeCamp’s - not to bring her aboard full time (she was on “That Girl” at the time, but only as a guest star). They wanted to bring in a different character rather than a clone of Kate. Didn’t work, though. The lady MD always seemed like an outsider.

MichaelKeith · 03-23-2020, 01:04 PM

Yeah, I've long thought that Rosemary DeCamp as Aunt Helen was a good replacement for Kate (though of course I preferred Bea as she initiated the role). But Aunt Helen was very similar to Kate and the remainder of the shows/seasons would have been better with her in my opinion since Bea was gone. Of course, the best case scenario is for Bea to have lived thoughout the run of the series.

OH Nuts! · 03-23-2020, 02:32 PM

I do want to say that while the eps with Rosemary DeCamp and June Lockhart were good, they pale in comparison to Bea who was utterly fantastic on the show.

So when you go from utterly fantastic to good, you have basically jumped the shark.

Duster76 · 03-23-2020, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV Guy

Agreed on Benaderet being underrated. She was a huge talent. And “Kate’s Homecoming” is a great episode. I wish the series had ended there. I believe it was the producers’ decision - not Rosemary DeCamp’s - not to bring her aboard full time (she was on “That Girl” at the time, but only as a guest star). They wanted to bring in a different character rather than a clone of Kate. Didn’t work, though. The lady MD always seemed like an outsider.

A couple of things, from a production standpoint Bea was the star of the series and beloved by the audience, so finding someone who would fill that void was going to be a staggering task. To make matters worse this was taking place right at the start of the season. CBS may have stepped up and recommended Lockhart, in the prior 10 TV seasons she had been a regular on two different CBS series playing a mother in Lassie and Lost In Space for a total of 9 seasons. The one season she was not in a series she was very active appearing in everything from Perry Mason to Bewitched. Again, no reflection on DeCamp, but she was not a popular star in the same sense as Lockhart. I don't think the production company or Lockhart wanted the role to be a related character (aunt, cousin), rather than a mother figure the role was played as a mentor.

I thought Lockhart did a good job, this was an impossible situation and the show was devastated beyond repair, there just was no replacing what Benaderet brought to the table, she was glue that held the series together.

WhoisJillScott · 03-24-2020, 01:45 AM

Bea was absolutely the heart of the show, and I agree that it’s painful to watch the show struggle on without her. I think ending it after Season 5 would have been the best thing to do. So many cast changes had already happened at that point (Charlie was gone, Meredith McRae replaced Jeannine Riley/Gunilla Hutton as Billie Jo with a very different take on her character) that the show hardly felt the same anymore.

Unfortunately I think the show was already slipping in quality around the 4th season, when the writers started filling the episodes with singing segments. I find those boring and tend to skip them. I think it would have been better if PJ ended after Bea’s death and the girls and Uncle Joe migrated over to Green Acres.

TV Guy · 03-24-2020, 03:59 PM

Yeah - the first three seasons are best for me. Season 4 is when the deadly dull duo of Steve and Billie Jo III arrived, the singing started, and producer Jay Sommers left to focus on Green Acres full time.

MichaelKeith · 03-25-2020, 12:24 PM

I always loved the crossover episodes when Green Acres, Petticoat and BHB visited each other. Such fun to watch these actors together.

Yeah, the singing parts of season 4 were always awful to me. Don't know why they ever added so much singing. A little was okay because that is truly what many people who lived in the country did once in a while, but not nearly as much as season four features.

I think it would have been fun with Bea there as grandmother to Kathy Jo. She could have babysat and had all kinds of fun interactions with the baby.

Bonniegirl · 03-25-2020, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelKeith

I always loved the crossover episodes when Green Acres, Petticoat and BHB visited each other. Such fun to watch these actors together.

Yeah, the singing parts of season 4 were always awful to me. Don't know why they ever added so much singing. A little was okay because that is truly what many people who lived in the country did once in a while, but not nearly as much as season four features.

I think it would have been fun with Bea there as grandmother to Kathy Jo. She could have babysat and had all kinds of fun interactions with the baby.

I think it is sad too that Bea wasn't there when Kathy Jo came along!

Kate would have been a wonderful Grandmother!

nvtlover · 03-25-2020, 04:38 PM

I actually like the singing but I grew up listening to my Dad's LPs. However, I feel the comedy started going away and the singing was all that was interesting in the episode. Also the singing put PJ in the 1960s before it seemed like nostalgia. However, the 1960s saw a lot of rural America slipping away like in VT and northern Maine so it is a reflection of the times.

I agree that without Bea the show suffered greatly. I liked Rosemary more than June. This might have to do to scripts not the actress. Rosemary was taking Kate's part in scripts June had a different character. Except for the first episodes that were good when she was a lady MD moving into an old fashioned town, June seemed wasted and never part of the show. She just filled in scenes. She didn't have as big a role as Bea oddly. She didn't need to be a mother but more of a friend would have been nice.

Unlike some sad the show was cancelled; the show had run out of steam

WhoisJillScott · 03-25-2020, 08:24 PM

The only singing I enjoyed on PJ was when Floyd and Charlie would sing "Steam Cinders and Smoke." To me, that song captured the spirit of Hooterville, which is something the other singing lacked.

I would've liked to hear more country songs on the show, instead of the easy listening tunes. The 60s had some wonderful country singers (Loretta Lynn, Johnny Cash, Porter Wagoner, etc.) whose music would've suited the show perfectly. Maybe it was a copyright problem?

03-21-2020, 07:14 PM	#1
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	The episodes without Kate are unbearable MeTV has gotten to the latter half of season 5, where Kate is missing (and before Aunt Helen shows up). These episodes are just awful. I can’t remember if it’s better when Rosemary DeCamp shows up as Helen. But Kate’s unifying presence is sorely missed right now. The show doesn’t work without her. At all.

03-22-2020, 08:36 PM	#4
Hazel Anyday Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 12, 2002 Posts: 2,135	Exit Stage Left Enter Stage Right Certainly the shows were at their best when Kate was there. But the shows were still worth watching just for Uncle Joe and his antics not to mention the irresistible Lori Sanders or whichever Blankey-Jo she was. But reality is what it is and I think the closest and best replacement for Kate was Rosemary DeCamp. Her character resembled Kate and was most like her, good sense and loving at the same time. I think the show could have gone on almost like it was had Rosemary stayed on for the rest of the run. I don't know if it was Rosemary's decision or the producer's decision to have Rosemary leave the show, but it was a big mistake. As much as I like June Lockart (Lochart?) in Lassie and Lost In Space, she was perfect in those 2 shows, she was just wrong in Petticoat Junction, didn't seem to be part of that gang of characters at all.
	__________________ Haaazeelll!!

03-22-2020, 07:36 AM	#3
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	I’ve posted this before, but back in the days when the B&W episodes were sitting on the shelf, having all of those non-Kate episodes in the syndication package really hurt the show’s reputation. You only had two full seasons with her before she started missing shows. Oh well, thankfully we can see her entire run on the show these days. But will stop recording the MeTV shows until they cycle back to the beginning.

03-22-2020, 11:28 PM	#5
Duster76 Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 01, 2008 Location: New jersey Posts: 1,639	Interesting comments. With respect to season 5, that must have been a very difficult year for what seemed like a close knit cast. Charlie played by Smiley Burnette had passed away after the conclusion of season 4, so that black cloud hangs over the show as season 5 begins (his passing is indirectly referenced in the second episode of season 5). Then Bea Benaderet takes ill missing 10 or so episodes in a row battling the illness that would take her life. The writers had to rewrite scenes and episodes on the fly as the magnitude of the health challenges ahead for the star who was also the heart and soul of the show came into clear focus. Bea wasn't just the star she was one of the most underrated talents in television history. Her body of work in television between 1950 and her death in 1968 is amazing. She was a regular on 5 different series plus the voice over actress for Betty Rubble. the only season she was not working on a series from 1950 on was the 59-60 television season. She was trained by the Mount Rushmore of comedy talent, the three Bs, Ball, Benny and Burns and she learned her lessons very well. She was a master at double-takes, line delivery and comic timing. It's no reflection on DeCamp or Lockhart, but Bea was one of a kind. I give the entire production team and on screen talent a great deal of credit for dealing with the behind the scene circumstances. There were many good episodes in season 5, and the final episode of season 5 is a love letter to the star who would appear in only three more episodes of the series.

03-23-2020, 11:47 AM	#6
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	Agreed on Benaderet being underrated. She was a huge talent. And “Kate’s Homecoming” is a great episode. I wish the series had ended there. I believe it was the producers’ decision - not Rosemary DeCamp’s - not to bring her aboard full time (she was on “That Girl” at the time, but only as a guest star). They wanted to bring in a different character rather than a clone of Kate. Didn’t work, though. The lady MD always seemed like an outsider.

03-23-2020, 01:04 PM	#7
MichaelKeith Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 01, 2007 Posts: 1,139	Yeah, I've long thought that Rosemary DeCamp as Aunt Helen was a good replacement for Kate (though of course I preferred Bea as she initiated the role). But Aunt Helen was very similar to Kate and the remainder of the shows/seasons would have been better with her in my opinion since Bea was gone. Of course, the best case scenario is for Bea to have lived thoughout the run of the series.

03-23-2020, 02:32 PM	#8
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	I do want to say that while the eps with Rosemary DeCamp and June Lockhart were good, they pale in comparison to Bea who was utterly fantastic on the show. So when you go from utterly fantastic to good, you have basically jumped the shark.

03-24-2020, 01:45 AM	#10
WhoisJillScott Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 24, 2020 Posts: 14	Bea was absolutely the heart of the show, and I agree that it’s painful to watch the show struggle on without her. I think ending it after Season 5 would have been the best thing to do. So many cast changes had already happened at that point (Charlie was gone, Meredith McRae replaced Jeannine Riley/Gunilla Hutton as Billie Jo with a very different take on her character) that the show hardly felt the same anymore. Unfortunately I think the show was already slipping in quality around the 4th season, when the writers started filling the episodes with singing segments. I find those boring and tend to skip them. I think it would have been better if PJ ended after Bea’s death and the girls and Uncle Joe migrated over to Green Acres.

03-24-2020, 03:59 PM	#11
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	Yeah - the first three seasons are best for me. Season 4 is when the deadly dull duo of Steve and Billie Jo III arrived, the singing started, and producer Jay Sommers left to focus on Green Acres full time.

03-25-2020, 12:24 PM	#12
MichaelKeith Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 01, 2007 Posts: 1,139	I always loved the crossover episodes when Green Acres, Petticoat and BHB visited each other. Such fun to watch these actors together. Yeah, the singing parts of season 4 were always awful to me. Don't know why they ever added so much singing. A little was okay because that is truly what many people who lived in the country did once in a while, but not nearly as much as season four features. I think it would have been fun with Bea there as grandmother to Kathy Jo. She could have babysat and had all kinds of fun interactions with the baby.

03-25-2020, 04:38 PM	#14
nvtlover Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 22, 2010 Location: Vermont Posts: 55	I actually like the singing but I grew up listening to my Dad's LPs. However, I feel the comedy started going away and the singing was all that was interesting in the episode. Also the singing put PJ in the 1960s before it seemed like nostalgia. However, the 1960s saw a lot of rural America slipping away like in VT and northern Maine so it is a reflection of the times. I agree that without Bea the show suffered greatly. I liked Rosemary more than June. This might have to do to scripts not the actress. Rosemary was taking Kate's part in scripts June had a different character. Except for the first episodes that were good when she was a lady MD moving into an old fashioned town, June seemed wasted and never part of the show. She just filled in scenes. She didn't have as big a role as Bea oddly. She didn't need to be a mother but more of a friend would have been nice. Unlike some sad the show was cancelled; the show had run out of steam

03-25-2020, 08:24 PM	#15
WhoisJillScott Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 24, 2020 Posts: 14	The only singing I enjoyed on PJ was when Floyd and Charlie would sing "Steam Cinders and Smoke." To me, that song captured the spirit of Hooterville, which is something the other singing lacked. I would've liked to hear more country songs on the show, instead of the easy listening tunes. The 60s had some wonderful country singers (Loretta Lynn, Johnny Cash, Porter Wagoner, etc.) whose music would've suited the show perfectly. Maybe it was a copyright problem?