Season 12 Intro - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TheLogoMan94 · 04-17-2019, 09:47 PM

I’ve been compiling my original satellite recordings of S12 of MTS, which aired on Me-TV last year, and I was wondering something: I understand the original S12 intro was cut, but why? Why was it replaced with the standard syndication intro used for, I believe, S10-S11?

stevea · 04-19-2019, 10:35 AM

I've never seen the original season 12 intro, but there's a post in another thread that says the original airings had a redone intro which deleted Don Grady, and added Dawn Lyn and Ronne Troup. As for why it was replaced with the previous-season opener, the answer is probably, it was the easiest thing to do. Those were already edited to remove sponsors and (in most cases) the Fred MacMurray intro.

Also the original end credits undoubtedly included the main cast. The old syndicated copies sped up the music, and cut out the main cast (this is the only season where that happened.)

This season NEEDS to be remastered from original 35mm prints (obviously, it was never dubbed to videotape, since the CBS syndication website says no dubbing inventory exists)...hopefully the 35mms exist, becuase I doubt they would strike new ones from the negatives. The existing masters appear to be from 16mm dubs for syndication.

TheLogoMan94 · 04-21-2019, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

I've never seen the original season 12 intro, but there's a post in another thread that says the original airings had a redone intro which deleted Don Grady, and added Dawn Lyn and Ronne Troup. As for why it was replaced with the previous-season opener, the answer is probably, it was the easiest thing to do. Those were already edited to remove sponsors and (in most cases) the Fred MacMurray intro.

Also the original end credits undoubtedly included the main cast. The old syndicated copies sped up the music, and cut out the main cast (this is the only season where that happened.)

This season NEEDS to be remastered from original 35mm prints (obviously, it was never dubbed to videotape, since the CBS syndication website says no dubbing inventory exists)...hopefully the 35mms exist, becuase I doubt they would strike new ones from the negatives. The existing masters appear to be from 16mm dubs for syndication.

They’re the same masters Hallmark had almost 20 years ago. It’s a shame these prints are this bad. I’ve never seen the original intro, so that would be a treat to see. I’ve only seen ONE 16mm print of any S11-S12 episode up for sale on eBay, and it was a S12 episode. It was only listed once, and I never saw it again, it wasn’t even in the sold listings. I would honestly volunteer my time anyway I could to help make new masters of these episodes.

Even more baffling is they slapped on one of Viacom’s older logos to the end of some of these episodes, and I’m not even sure why (which reminds me, I wish I could change my username, logos don’t really mean nothing to me now compared to 2014

). I will say, it was kinda nice to see Viacom’s older logo for the first time in almost 20 years.

stevea · 04-21-2019, 07:18 AM

Those episodes were evidently syndicated in 70s, when 16mm prints were shipped around, station to station. So that's a Viacom logo from that era, I guess.

Yes, those are the same chopped up episodes Odyssey/Hallmark showed, although some episodes are still complete length and edited by MeTV. I know this because MeTV showed some episodes that had more or different content than Hallmark.

I'd volunteer to do anything for mastering, as well. I'd hope original 35mm prints are sitiing safely, somewhere--the 16mm prints had to be created from them back in the day. My hopes are that MeTV has worked on them since the first go-round. The B/W episodes seem to have been worked on--they look cleaner this time.

The WORST edits are the ones that cut scenes at the beginning of the episode. Also ones that are so bad you can't figure out what happened in the episode.

TheLogoMan94 · 04-21-2019, 01:34 PM

I'm actually working on a video comparing the Odyssey/Hallmark and Me-TV airings of these episodes. I've only finished 2 episodes and, so far, the results are amazing. It just amazes me how much they cut or add to the show (mostly cut) on both networks.

stevea · 04-21-2019, 02:51 PM

I edited more-complete season 11 and 12 episodes on the last go-round. The best I got on some episodes was over 24 minutes. Other episodes were identical on Odyssey/Hallmark and MeTV. Those are the ones that are hopelessly chopped up. The only hope of repair would be to use the original, IMO.

There are certain episodes, like Katie's Career, that at one time were on Youtube, and more-complete than both Odyssey/Hallmark and MeTV. That one was (I think) sourced from Nick at Nite, which at the time showed as many unedited as they could. No one seems to have recorded those (including, stupidly, me!)...I'd really like to trade for some of them!

Editing these episodes as I described above ain't easy. Sometimes they cut out sentences here and there. Other times both networks cut different sentences out of the same scene. Also fun.

As I said above there are times you can't make sense of an episode as it exists. I think it's 12-16, an added scene on MeTV has Barbara telling Steve Katie is going to friends'. Then they show that, then it jumps to her out dancing with no explanation. A few minutes later she's on the sofa, knitting. Absolutely no continuity.

Hazel Anyday · 04-21-2019, 09:49 PM

Same story with the b/w episodes. I've been watching season 1 for a while now (almost about to start season 2, only watch on Monday mornings). I gave up on ME TV showings, not only were they hacked up but that lousy fake background music I couldn't abide. Now I watch my TV Land/Family CHannel/Nick @ Nite version first then I go to the uncut (still with lousy fake music) commercial DVDs of the same episode and watch it again just to see the big difference all the edits make. There are some TV Land shows (best thing about them is the ORIGINAL background music) where the editing is so over done some scenes don't make any sense. I'd find myself asking, why is Steve saying that or why are the boys saying that to Bub etc. Then when I watched the uncut versions all would be explained, sometimes important explanatory scenes were cut out of the broadcast versions that you'd then find all would be clear when you see the uncut shows.

I'm so old I can remember seeing My 3 Sons when it was first broadcast, least the color shows I remember seeing, Bub years were news to me when I first saw them on Nick @ Nite years ago. But I remember the correct cast opening credits for Season 12, Rob was no longer on the show and his name was properly not in the credits but Polly & I believe Dodie were there. I could be remembering wrong about Dodie. I do have some Nick @ Nite Season 12 shows, I'll have to check to see if even they have the proper opening credits, I know they show the ones with Steve saying Welcome to our show.

stevea · 04-21-2019, 10:35 PM

It's great that there is a source to go to on the S1/S2 episodes, to see it uncut. Yet fake music. They just can't put it all together with M3S.

I'd be interested to know what you taped from Nick at Nite, for S11 (2nd half) and S12...Odyssey/Hallmark is nearly as bad as what MeTV has, many time worse (we've talked about that ridiculous episode where Katie sings the horrible song (twice), which was totally cut out). Many of those N@Ns would be full episodes, but still probably "bad" opening/closing credits.

stevea · 04-21-2019, 10:59 PM

Based on what MeTV had for these S11/S12 episodes, here are the ones that probably would have been complete had MeTV not edited a few minutes out (and therefore were probably shown complete on Nick at Nite): (S11) The Love God, The New Vice President, Ernie Drives, Dodie Goes Downtown, Debbie.
(S12) Goodbye, Fergus, Four For The Road, Polly The Pigeon, Proxy Parents, The Enthusiast (probably the funniest color episode!), Polly's Secret Life, TV Triplets, Three For School, Peanuts, Second Banana, Lonesome Katie.

Other Nick at Nite episodes may have additional footage simply due to different editing on MeTV. I mentioned on another post a scene that MeTV deleted on Katie's Career, other than the songs, that was on a Nick at Nite episode that was on Youtube at one time.

TheLogoMan94 · 04-22-2019, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

It's great that there is a source to go to on the S1/S2 episodes, to see it uncut. Yet fake music. They just can't put it all together with M3S.

I'd be interested to know what you taped from Nick at Nite, for S11 (2nd half) and S12...Odyssey/Hallmark is nearly as bad as what MeTV has, many time worse (we've talked about that ridiculous episode where Katie sings the horrible song (twice), which was totally cut out). Many of those N@Ns would be full episodes, but still probably "bad" opening/closing credits.

Ditto for the N@N recordings as well. I've never seen these episodes in their original, uncut form, so it would be really great to see!

stevea · 04-22-2019, 02:49 PM

N@N ran at least some episodes from full-length syndication prints. They still had the syndication opening/closing credits, still from the same lousy 16mm prints. I've seen a couple of them on Youtube, before they were taken down. I think one of them was Polly the Pigeon. Now IIRC that one wasn't full-length, but it had additional scene(s) that neither MeTV nor Odyssey/Hallmark had. Same with Katie's Career--it had a scene in the kitchen as Katie was leaving for the singing gig, that neither MeTV nor Odyssey had.

TheLogoMan94 · 04-22-2019, 03:55 PM

According to Wikipedia, MTS last aired on N@N back in 1991, before I was born, so I've obviously never seen their prints. I just remember the Odyssey prints from about 2000. It seems that the only prints actually available online are Odyssey's prints on Dailymotion. I still have my prints from Me-TV, but they're still incomplete for the most part.

TheLogoMan94 · 01-20-2025, 11:19 PM

Apologies for bringing up an old thread, but there may be some movement regarding the S12 intro. Somebody commented on my YouTube upload of the current intro used for S11/S12 and they claimed to have seen the original S12 intro in a MTS Facebook fan group page. They said that they tried to copy and paste the video link but was unable to do so. Maybe someone can confirm this since I don’t use Facebook.

stevea · 01-21-2025, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLogoMan94

Apologies for bringing up an old thread, but there may be some movement regarding the S12 intro. Somebody commented on my YouTube upload of the current intro used for S11/S12 and they claimed to have seen the original S12 intro in a MTS Facebook fan group page. They said that they tried to copy and paste the video link but was unable to do so. Maybe someone can confirm this since I don’t use Facebook.

I don't use FB either (anymore), but I remember seeing one several years ago. If it's the same one I saw, it mis-spells Dawn Lyn's name (Lynn), so it's probably something someone made up with computer wizardry.

I'll email another M3S fan who uses FB and ask her to check.

stevea · 01-21-2025, 10:33 AM

By the way, there's no issue with the S11 opener. However both the opening and closing credits for season 12 are hosed on the current edited prints. Don Grady's credit appears on the opening credits (after having left the show), and regular cast credits are edited out of every episode, the only season where that happens.

04-17-2019, 09:47 PM	#1
TheLogoMan94 16mm Film Enthusiast Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 24, 2014 Location: Silverstone (60,000 Acres) Posts: 288	Season 12 Intro I’ve been compiling my original satellite recordings of S12 of MTS, which aired on Me-TV last year, and I was wondering something: I understand the original S12 intro was cut, but why? Why was it replaced with the standard syndication intro used for, I believe, S10-S11?
	__________________ Find me on YouTube, @ TVTA

04-21-2019, 09:49 PM	#7
Hazel Anyday Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 12, 2002 Posts: 2,135	Why Can't Vintage TV Be Shown Like TCM shows movies? Same story with the b/w episodes. I've been watching season 1 for a while now (almost about to start season 2, only watch on Monday mornings). I gave up on ME TV showings, not only were they hacked up but that lousy fake background music I couldn't abide. Now I watch my TV Land/Family CHannel/Nick @ Nite version first then I go to the uncut (still with lousy fake music) commercial DVDs of the same episode and watch it again just to see the big difference all the edits make. There are some TV Land shows (best thing about them is the ORIGINAL background music) where the editing is so over done some scenes don't make any sense. I'd find myself asking, why is Steve saying that or why are the boys saying that to Bub etc. Then when I watched the uncut versions all would be explained, sometimes important explanatory scenes were cut out of the broadcast versions that you'd then find all would be clear when you see the uncut shows. I'm so old I can remember seeing My 3 Sons when it was first broadcast, least the color shows I remember seeing, Bub years were news to me when I first saw them on Nick @ Nite years ago. But I remember the correct cast opening credits for Season 12, Rob was no longer on the show and his name was properly not in the credits but Polly & I believe Dodie were there. I could be remembering wrong about Dodie. I do have some Nick @ Nite Season 12 shows, I'll have to check to see if even they have the proper opening credits, I know they show the ones with Steve saying Welcome to our show.
	__________________ Haaazeelll!!

04-22-2019, 03:55 PM	#12
TheLogoMan94 16mm Film Enthusiast Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 24, 2014 Location: Silverstone (60,000 Acres) Posts: 288	According to Wikipedia, MTS last aired on N@N back in 1991, before I was born, so I've obviously never seen their prints. I just remember the Odyssey prints from about 2000. It seems that the only prints actually available online are Odyssey's prints on Dailymotion. I still have my prints from Me-TV, but they're still incomplete for the most part.
	Last edited by TheLogoMan94; 01-21-2025 at 01:26 AM.

04-19-2019, 10:35 AM	#2
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,663	I've never seen the original season 12 intro, but there's a post in another thread that says the original airings had a redone intro which deleted Don Grady, and added Dawn Lyn and Ronne Troup. As for why it was replaced with the previous-season opener, the answer is probably, it was the easiest thing to do. Those were already edited to remove sponsors and (in most cases) the Fred MacMurray intro. Also the original end credits undoubtedly included the main cast. The old syndicated copies sped up the music, and cut out the main cast (this is the only season where that happened.) This season NEEDS to be remastered from original 35mm prints (obviously, it was never dubbed to videotape, since the CBS syndication website says no dubbing inventory exists)...hopefully the 35mms exist, becuase I doubt they would strike new ones from the negatives. The existing masters appear to be from 16mm dubs for syndication.

04-21-2019, 07:18 AM	#4
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,663	Those episodes were evidently syndicated in 70s, when 16mm prints were shipped around, station to station. So that's a Viacom logo from that era, I guess. Yes, those are the same chopped up episodes Odyssey/Hallmark showed, although some episodes are still complete length and edited by MeTV. I know this because MeTV showed some episodes that had more or different content than Hallmark. I'd volunteer to do anything for mastering, as well. I'd hope original 35mm prints are sitiing safely, somewhere--the 16mm prints had to be created from them back in the day. My hopes are that MeTV has worked on them since the first go-round. The B/W episodes seem to have been worked on--they look cleaner this time. The WORST edits are the ones that cut scenes at the beginning of the episode. Also ones that are so bad you can't figure out what happened in the episode.

04-21-2019, 01:34 PM	#5
TheLogoMan94 16mm Film Enthusiast Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 24, 2014 Location: Silverstone (60,000 Acres) Posts: 288	I'm actually working on a video comparing the Odyssey/Hallmark and Me-TV airings of these episodes. I've only finished 2 episodes and, so far, the results are amazing. It just amazes me how much they cut or add to the show (mostly cut) on both networks.

04-21-2019, 02:51 PM	#6
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,663	I edited more-complete season 11 and 12 episodes on the last go-round. The best I got on some episodes was over 24 minutes. Other episodes were identical on Odyssey/Hallmark and MeTV. Those are the ones that are hopelessly chopped up. The only hope of repair would be to use the original, IMO. There are certain episodes, like Katie's Career, that at one time were on Youtube, and more-complete than both Odyssey/Hallmark and MeTV. That one was (I think) sourced from Nick at Nite, which at the time showed as many unedited as they could. No one seems to have recorded those (including, stupidly, me!)...I'd really like to trade for some of them! Editing these episodes as I described above ain't easy. Sometimes they cut out sentences here and there. Other times both networks cut different sentences out of the same scene. Also fun. As I said above there are times you can't make sense of an episode as it exists. I think it's 12-16, an added scene on MeTV has Barbara telling Steve Katie is going to friends'. Then they show that, then it jumps to her out dancing with no explanation. A few minutes later she's on the sofa, knitting. Absolutely no continuity.

04-21-2019, 10:35 PM	#8
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,663	It's great that there is a source to go to on the S1/S2 episodes, to see it uncut. Yet fake music. They just can't put it all together with M3S. I'd be interested to know what you taped from Nick at Nite, for S11 (2nd half) and S12...Odyssey/Hallmark is nearly as bad as what MeTV has, many time worse (we've talked about that ridiculous episode where Katie sings the horrible song (twice), which was totally cut out). Many of those N@Ns would be full episodes, but still probably "bad" opening/closing credits.

04-21-2019, 10:59 PM	#9
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,663	Based on what MeTV had for these S11/S12 episodes, here are the ones that probably would have been complete had MeTV not edited a few minutes out (and therefore were probably shown complete on Nick at Nite): (S11) The Love God, The New Vice President, Ernie Drives, Dodie Goes Downtown, Debbie. (S12) Goodbye, Fergus, Four For The Road, Polly The Pigeon, Proxy Parents, The Enthusiast (probably the funniest color episode!), Polly's Secret Life, TV Triplets, Three For School, Peanuts, Second Banana, Lonesome Katie. Other Nick at Nite episodes may have additional footage simply due to different editing on MeTV. I mentioned on another post a scene that MeTV deleted on Katie's Career, other than the songs, that was on a Nick at Nite episode that was on Youtube at one time.

04-22-2019, 02:49 PM	#11
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,663	N@N ran at least some episodes from full-length syndication prints. They still had the syndication opening/closing credits, still from the same lousy 16mm prints. I've seen a couple of them on Youtube, before they were taken down. I think one of them was Polly the Pigeon. Now IIRC that one wasn't full-length, but it had additional scene(s) that neither MeTV nor Odyssey/Hallmark had. Same with Katie's Career--it had a scene in the kitchen as Katie was leaving for the singing gig, that neither MeTV nor Odyssey had.

01-20-2025, 11:19 PM	#13
TheLogoMan94 16mm Film Enthusiast Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 24, 2014 Location: Silverstone (60,000 Acres) Posts: 288	Apologies for bringing up an old thread, but there may be some movement regarding the S12 intro. Somebody commented on my YouTube upload of the current intro used for S11/S12 and they claimed to have seen the original S12 intro in a MTS Facebook fan group page. They said that they tried to copy and paste the video link but was unable to do so. Maybe someone can confirm this since I don’t use Facebook.

01-21-2025, 10:33 AM	#15
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,663	By the way, there's no issue with the S11 opener. However both the opening and closing credits for season 12 are hosed on the current edited prints. Don Grady's credit appears on the opening credits (after having left the show), and regular cast credits are edited out of every episode, the only season where that happens.