Bad ratings to #1 ratings - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Will and Grace Fanatic · 05-19-2002, 02:01 PM

Can anyone think of sitcoms that had very bad ratings and then ended up being a top 10 show or a top 20 show. Two I can think of are Cheers which was nearly last on the ratings board then became one of the highest rated shows in television history. Then there is Seinfeld, it didn't get as bad ratings as Cheers but it wasn't a top 20. Then it too became one of the highest rated shows. It is number 14 of the most watched shows ever on tv.

TJL · 05-19-2002, 02:11 PM

Another example would be MASH. Their first season was a ratings disaster, with the show barely breaking the top fifty.
By the end of the series run, they were constantly in the top ten, and some years in the top five.

Jimbo · 05-19-2002, 06:53 PM

I believe that "WKRP in Cincinnati" was in a similar situation - during the first several weeks, the ratings were poor, and it looked like the show would be cancelled. Then they aired their now-famous Thanksgiving episode ("As God is my witness - I thought turkeys could fly!"). That epsiode generated a ton of fan mail, and turned the corner for the show.

Johnny McBeal · 05-20-2002, 01:11 AM

nowadays the networks don't have the type of patience to let shows be slow growers like in the old days of Cheers, Mash and Seinfeld. I mean, they cancel shows like Inside Schwartz that is in the top 10 just because it's not Friends. Even tho those of us who watched Friends from the beginning remember how the show started off around #12 in the ratings at the beginning of season 1 (which was significantly lower than Seinfeld was) and then picked it's way up during the 94-95 season and the last several episodes that season ranked top 5, and the show ended up in the season-end top 10. NBC doesn't even have that type of patience these days. And it's sad.

DandR · 05-20-2002, 02:14 AM

I think FOL was somewhere in the 70 range during its first year before becoming a keeper for NBC. I also agree that networks are way too eager to axe shows before "they" realize that a show has a following.

Will and Grace Fanatic · 05-20-2002, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny McBeal
nowadays the networks don't have the type of patience to let shows be slow growers like in the old days of Cheers, Mash and Seinfeld. I mean, they cancel shows like Inside Schwartz that is in the top 10 just because it's not Friends. Even tho those of us who watched Friends from the beginning remember how the show started off around #12 in the ratings at the beginning of season 1 (which was significantly lower than Seinfeld was) and then picked it's way up during the 94-95 season and the last several episodes that season ranked top 5, and the show ended up in the season-end top 10. NBC doesn't even have that type of patience these days. And it's sad.

I agree but there is one speical case. NBC hasn't cancelled Watching Ellie and they plan bringing it back midseason next season. I think that networks should give all shows a 2 season run. Then if the ratings suck then they should cancel them.

Superbatboy · 05-20-2002, 07:59 PM

I think Family Matters didn't really pick up until the second season when Urkel became a regular. A lot of people don't know that All In the Family wasn't highly rated in it's first season during the spring of 1971. But the buzz went out and the ratings soared.

I Dream of Jeannie · 05-21-2002, 08:25 PM

"The Dukes of Hazzard" it was hated by critics but most viewers loved!

brypie · 05-22-2002, 11:38 PM

Don't forget The Dick Van Dyke Show. It was cancelled after its first season before the CBS execs wised up.

winkwilliams · 05-23-2002, 12:09 PM

Both All In The Family and Mary Tyler Moore were slow starters and both ended up big long term hits. Family Ties nearly got the ax and then got positioned after Cosby and became a smash. Murphy Brown was slow to start and became a bigger hit after VP Dan Quayle attacked it. Married With Children was not very successful until some housewife launched a campaign to boycott it. Which resulted in lots of free press and a ratings surge.
The most dramatic example of a slow starter was Cheers. NBC was a solid number 3 when it debuted and during it's first year, Cheers finished dead last one week in the ratings. NBC stuck with it and grew a long term smash.
Friends was a smash from it's debut and never struggled. Remember My So-Called Life? It aired opposite the first season of Friends. ABC can only dream of getting a show with ratings equal to My So-Called Life in that time slot now.
What hits have there been since Friends? Smash hits? None and Friends debuted in 1994. It's been a long dry spell and the entire network tv landscape has changed. With digital cable becoming the norm and 250 channels not unusual and WB, UPN and PAX all offering a slate of new, big ticket (well maybe not PAX: It's audience is more rural and down scale and programming noticeable cheaper and simplistic) programming the era of smash hits may be over. Right now, the sitcom is on the wane.

TJL · 05-23-2002, 04:35 PM

Wink,
What about "Everybody Loves Raymond?"
I would think CBS would qualify that show as a smash.

Will and Grace Fanatic · 05-23-2002, 05:46 PM

wink,

You say that ratings are down and no shows since Friends has been a smash. Well ratings are down because there are more networks like Fox,UPN,and the WB. Also because there are so many calble station. I think the networks are doing pretty good seeing that they have 3 more networks against them 4 if you can't PAX plus there cable competition. Ratings aren't down because the shows suck. They don't ratings are down because of all the more competion.

Also there are more smash tv shows since Friends, such as CSI, that has gotten as much as 28 million viewers, Will and Grace whose highest rating was 25.5 million viewers, and Every body Loves Raymond which I beleive averages 21 million viewers.

winkwilliams · 05-23-2002, 09:30 PM

I agree that that competition, with 200+ cable channels and 3 additional networks cranking out competitive, original programming the main reason.
I wouldn't qualify Raymond as a smash. It's a hit for CBS and highly rated, averaging a low twenties share, but hardly a smash. CBS is making a bundle because they syndicate it too. That's the real reason it has gotten such solid promotion and slotting. A few years ago I doubt it would have made it past the first season. Same thing with Will and Grace. Didn't you wonder why they moved it to Thursday? It's an NBC production and they see syndication cash in the bank. A few years ago the networks could not own the programming. Now that they do and all but one network is owned by an entertainment conglomerate, they are making sure the best positioning is going to there own stuff.
Yes, CSI is a smash and the first real one since Friends and ER debuted. A few fads, Millionaire and Survivor, hit it big, briefly and then faded. Plus, what are those types of shows worth long term? They have a very minimal rerun value. ABC made a huge mistake becoming overly reliant on Millionaire and is paying the price.
Notice CBS has already cut a deal for the off network rights to CSI? Why none other than TNN got it. A Viacom-Paramount cable network? Coincidence?
I don't think sitcoms are worse today. I think they are better than ever. The Simpsons, although not a traditional sitcom, is still the best thing on the air. Malcolm in the Middle is very good, superb production values that rival any feature and very well written. Friends continues to shine and Will and Grace has it's moments. I think that the cyclical nature of tv has turned away from sitcoms and towards dramas. Look at the new fall schedules that are drama heavy. Sitcoms will come back stronger than ever I suspect.

Please take a moment to say a prayer for the family of Chandra Levy. RIP

17Mar59 · 05-23-2002, 09:34 PM

Nowadays for a new show to succeed it practically has to be part
of an established franchise such as Star Trek,or to be so totally
different that the networks will risk a try(think Ally McBeal or better The X-Files).

05-19-2002, 02:11 PM	#2
TJL Suburbanite Extrordinaire Forum Star Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: New Jersey - the cradle of civilization Posts: 16,588	Another example would be MASH. Their first season was a ratings disaster, with the show barely breaking the top fifty. By the end of the series run, they were constantly in the top ten, and some years in the top five.
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05-20-2002, 02:14 AM	#5
DandR Bajo del sol Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 15, 2001 Location: Caliente, TX Posts: 106	I think FOL was somewhere in the 70 range during its first year before becoming a keeper for NBC. I also agree that networks are way too eager to axe shows before "they" realize that a show has a following.
	__________________ Have a nice day

05-20-2002, 07:59 PM	#7
Superbatboy The Brandon Show Forum Regular Join Date: Feb 25, 2002 Location: California..USA Posts: 793	I think Family Matters didn't really pick up until the second season when Urkel became a regular. A lot of people don't know that All In the Family wasn't highly rated in it's first season during the spring of 1971. But the buzz went out and the ratings soared.
	__________________ "Marion, stop cackling I've been waiting 10 years for you to lay that egg"

05-21-2002, 08:25 PM	#8
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05-23-2002, 12:09 PM	#10
winkwilliams Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 15, 2002 Location: yonkers, ny Posts: 98	All In The Family and MTM Both All In The Family and Mary Tyler Moore were slow starters and both ended up big long term hits. Family Ties nearly got the ax and then got positioned after Cosby and became a smash. Murphy Brown was slow to start and became a bigger hit after VP Dan Quayle attacked it. Married With Children was not very successful until some housewife launched a campaign to boycott it. Which resulted in lots of free press and a ratings surge. The most dramatic example of a slow starter was Cheers. NBC was a solid number 3 when it debuted and during it's first year, Cheers finished dead last one week in the ratings. NBC stuck with it and grew a long term smash. Friends was a smash from it's debut and never struggled. Remember My So-Called Life? It aired opposite the first season of Friends. ABC can only dream of getting a show with ratings equal to My So-Called Life in that time slot now. What hits have there been since Friends? Smash hits? None and Friends debuted in 1994. It's been a long dry spell and the entire network tv landscape has changed. With digital cable becoming the norm and 250 channels not unusual and WB, UPN and PAX all offering a slate of new, big ticket (well maybe not PAX: It's audience is more rural and down scale and programming noticeable cheaper and simplistic) programming the era of smash hits may be over. Right now, the sitcom is on the wane.
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05-19-2002, 02:01 PM	#1
Will and Grace Fanatic be happy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 15, 2002 Location: seattle, washington Posts: 2,746	Bad ratings to #1 ratings Can anyone think of sitcoms that had very bad ratings and then ended up being a top 10 show or a top 20 show. Two I can think of are Cheers which was nearly last on the ratings board then became one of the highest rated shows in television history. Then there is Seinfeld, it didn't get as bad ratings as Cheers but it wasn't a top 20. Then it too became one of the highest rated shows. It is number 14 of the most watched shows ever on tv.

05-19-2002, 06:53 PM	#3
Jimbo Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 29, 2001 Location: United States of America-One Nation UNDER GOD! Posts: 471	I believe that "WKRP in Cincinnati" was in a similar situation - during the first several weeks, the ratings were poor, and it looked like the show would be cancelled. Then they aired their now-famous Thanksgiving episode ("As God is my witness - I thought turkeys could fly!"). That epsiode generated a ton of fan mail, and turned the corner for the show.

05-20-2002, 01:11 AM	#4
Johnny McBeal Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 23, 2002 Location: KY Posts: 57	nowadays the networks don't have the type of patience to let shows be slow growers like in the old days of Cheers, Mash and Seinfeld. I mean, they cancel shows like Inside Schwartz that is in the top 10 just because it's not Friends. Even tho those of us who watched Friends from the beginning remember how the show started off around #12 in the ratings at the beginning of season 1 (which was significantly lower than Seinfeld was) and then picked it's way up during the 94-95 season and the last several episodes that season ranked top 5, and the show ended up in the season-end top 10. NBC doesn't even have that type of patience these days. And it's sad.

05-22-2002, 11:38 PM	#9
brypie A man of mystery Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 21, 2002 Location: Way too cold Minnesota Posts: 34	Don't forget The Dick Van Dyke Show. It was cancelled after its first season before the CBS execs wised up.

05-23-2002, 04:35 PM	#11
TJL Suburbanite Extrordinaire Forum Star Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: New Jersey - the cradle of civilization Posts: 16,588	Wink, What about "Everybody Loves Raymond?" I would think CBS would qualify that show as a smash.

05-23-2002, 05:46 PM	#12
Will and Grace Fanatic be happy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 15, 2002 Location: seattle, washington Posts: 2,746	wink, You say that ratings are down and no shows since Friends has been a smash. Well ratings are down because there are more networks like Fox,UPN,and the WB. Also because there are so many calble station. I think the networks are doing pretty good seeing that they have 3 more networks against them 4 if you can't PAX plus there cable competition. Ratings aren't down because the shows suck. They don't ratings are down because of all the more competion. Also there are more smash tv shows since Friends, such as CSI, that has gotten as much as 28 million viewers, Will and Grace whose highest rating was 25.5 million viewers, and Every body Loves Raymond which I beleive averages 21 million viewers.

05-23-2002, 09:30 PM	#13
winkwilliams Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 15, 2002 Location: yonkers, ny Posts: 98	yes, way more competition I agree that that competition, with 200+ cable channels and 3 additional networks cranking out competitive, original programming the main reason. I wouldn't qualify Raymond as a smash. It's a hit for CBS and highly rated, averaging a low twenties share, but hardly a smash. CBS is making a bundle because they syndicate it too. That's the real reason it has gotten such solid promotion and slotting. A few years ago I doubt it would have made it past the first season. Same thing with Will and Grace. Didn't you wonder why they moved it to Thursday? It's an NBC production and they see syndication cash in the bank. A few years ago the networks could not own the programming. Now that they do and all but one network is owned by an entertainment conglomerate, they are making sure the best positioning is going to there own stuff. Yes, CSI is a smash and the first real one since Friends and ER debuted. A few fads, Millionaire and Survivor, hit it big, briefly and then faded. Plus, what are those types of shows worth long term? They have a very minimal rerun value. ABC made a huge mistake becoming overly reliant on Millionaire and is paying the price. Notice CBS has already cut a deal for the off network rights to CSI? Why none other than TNN got it. A Viacom-Paramount cable network? Coincidence? I don't think sitcoms are worse today. I think they are better than ever. The Simpsons, although not a traditional sitcom, is still the best thing on the air. Malcolm in the Middle is very good, superb production values that rival any feature and very well written. Friends continues to shine and Will and Grace has it's moments. I think that the cyclical nature of tv has turned away from sitcoms and towards dramas. Look at the new fall schedules that are drama heavy. Sitcoms will come back stronger than ever I suspect. Please take a moment to say a prayer for the family of Chandra Levy. RIP

05-23-2002, 09:34 PM	#14
17Mar59 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 03, 2002 Location: washington state Posts: 475	Nowadays for a new show to succeed it practically has to be part of an established franchise such as Star Trek,or to be so totally different that the networks will risk a try(think Ally McBeal or better The X-Files).