When the Mary Tyler Moore Show jumped the shark. - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Donny Wallace · 11-12-2017, 01:26 AM

This is going to be heresy to a lot of boomers but the MTM show jumped the shark exactly when Mary placed the M on the ubiquitous wall of her ubiquitous apartment. As Mary suddenly became a feminist career women and all of a sudden supposedly secure in her job in so many ways work was the focus. Main characters Lou, Murry, Ted and Sue Ann became somewhat cloying and stock. Mary had her stock moves like disgust or crying in ways that were annoying. Georgette and Ted was finally too much, too saccharine. Chuckles Bites the Dust is an annoying one joke, the end episode is just too much.

The show was amazing when Mary lived in that super cool house and how she beat Rhoda out of the room when she had lived there for so long. And she was so guilty about doing it but kept the room. It was always better when the show focused on Mary's life outside of work, her relationship with Rhoda, her interaction with cool characters like the fireman or the wacky football player. There were not stock, cloying and annoying aspects to the show back then and the writing was so much more varied, creative and entertaining. And just for one thing I would have killed to live in that house with Mary.

Edward216 · 12-19-2017, 12:25 AM

I was just a kid when the Mary Tyler Moore Show ran originally but I think it never jumped the shark and was a great show until the end. But I'll admit it took me a little while to get used to Mary's new apartment when she moved LOL.

Ed.

Yong Fang · 01-03-2018, 07:34 AM

I liked the show to the very end. Valarie Harper and Cloris Leachman went off to their own shows and their characters moved away, so naturally Mary's friends were her workmates. Couldn't really make a new best friend for Mary after Rhoda left. Georgette took up much of the slack I guess.

OH Nuts! · 01-03-2018, 08:47 AM

IMO the show NEVER jumped the shark; it was magnificent every single ep! It still sparkles to this very day.

Duster76 · 01-03-2018, 03:11 PM

A case can be made that the MTM show was the best show of the 70's (I'll admit it's a close call). In my opinion the show got stronger as the years went by, and you can't say that about many shows (All In the Family which is a strong contender for show of the decade did in my opinion jump the shark when Mike and Gloria moved out).

rcbrad · 01-03-2018, 09:07 PM

At first I thought that you were referring to the entire run of the show, because she had the M in her first apartment too when she first moved in.

I do not think that the show jumped the shark at all, but I too prefer the earlier episodes when Rhoda and Phyllis were around. (first 5 seasons)

Seven years is a long time for any sitcom, things do change.

Babalu · 01-03-2018, 09:34 PM

I remember liking the show less when Mary switched apartments. But Mary was also sick with diabetes then, looked awful and didn't seem to have much energy.

Yong Fang · 01-06-2018, 06:22 AM

MTM Show was good from beginning to end. It was even realistic in the finale when everyone but Ted was fired. Radio and Television Broadcasters are infamous for firing everyone and cleaning house and changing formats. That is what was sad, everyone lost their job, except for Ted, who deserved to lose his job.

gopyle · 01-10-2018, 12:33 AM

I don't know that it completely jumped the shark, but after Rhoda left the show they concentrated too much on Georgette and Sue Ann for my liking.

Yong Fang · 03-04-2018, 11:43 PM

When Lou Grant ran out of scotch at work, went crazy, forced himself on the Happy Homemaker and beat Ted Baxter to a bloody pulp with Mare crying saying "Oh, Mr. Graaaaant!"

That's when the show lost me.

Retro4Life · 03-04-2018, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OH Nuts!

IMO the show NEVER jumped the shark; it was magnificent every single ep! It still sparkles to this very day.

Agreed. No drop in quality whatsoever. The show, if anything, deepened like a fine wine since it could draw on the history of the characters as time went by and gave them new dimension.

Never jumped. Period.

Dianne3 · 03-05-2018, 04:41 PM

I'm going to contradict myself here - while the MTM is one of my favourite shows ever, the later years are depressing.

Mary looks old at times, she has no close female friends and MTM becomes the Ted & Georgette show.

No matter how many times I watch MTM, I am shocked at how much MTM aged once she cut her hair. MTM was still was an attractive women though, even though in years 3-5 she looked so much older than in years 1-2.
But in year 6, especially in the episodes when MTM had that awful perm, it was depressing how old she looked. But once that perm was gone, she didn't look as bad.

In the final season there was an episode when Mary was hooked on sleeping pills. By this time, Mary had no close female friends to help her through the night. This would have been a better episode if Rhoda & Phyllis were still around.

Yong Fang · 03-06-2018, 01:09 AM

Mary was only 40 (going on 41) when the MTM Show went off the air in 1977. But I agree that she looked older than her actual age, which I attribute to her diabetes, drinking, smoking, the stress of headlining a television show and a failing marriage to Grant Tinker. There was a lot of darkness under that smile of hers. I made a thread with no response on this, but I hope someone does a movie about MTM's life. She was really the definition of that Bible verse of "To gain the whole World yet lose your own soul."

I also think that 40 was a lot older in 1978 than 40 in 2018. People drink and smoke less, but eat more, so we are more youthful but fatter. The generation in their twenties now will be in their 40's and shocked how old the people their age looked. Seriously.

Retro4Life · 03-06-2018, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dianne3

I'm going to contradict myself here - while the MTM is one of my favourite shows ever, the later years are depressing.

Mary looks old at times, she has no close female friends and MTM becomes the Ted & Georgette show.

No matter how many times I watch MTM, I am shocked at how much MTM aged once she cut her hair. MTM was still was an attractive women though, even though in years 3-5 she looked so much older than in years 1-2.
But in year 6, especially in the episodes when MTM had that awful perm, it was depressing how old she looked. But once that perm was gone, she didn't look as bad.

In the final season there was an episode when Mary was hooked on sleeping pills. By this time, Mary had no close female friends to help her through the night. This would have been a better episode if Rhoda & Phyllis were still around.

Personally, I feel Mary looked GREAT from start to finish. Who on this planet, then or now, looks the same at 40 as they did at 33? Nobody.

And I'm not sure how what she looked like affects when the show JTS anyway, but that's probably just me.

Willbo · 03-07-2018, 10:12 AM

I do not think the show ever jumped the shark. I do agree that Mary did not look good in season 6. She has no eyebrows. Although I did miss Rhoda and Phyllis I loved Sue Ann.

01-03-2018, 09:34 PM	#7
Babalu Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 22, 2014 Posts: 4,779	I remember liking the show less when Mary switched apartments. But Mary was also sick with diabetes then, looked awful and didn't seem to have much energy.
	__________________ . I just nailed Mrs. Trumbull

11-12-2017, 01:26 AM	#1
Donny Wallace Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 12, 2017 Location: Houston Posts: 6	This is going to be heresy to a lot of boomers but the MTM show jumped the shark exactly when Mary placed the M on the ubiquitous wall of her ubiquitous apartment. As Mary suddenly became a feminist career women and all of a sudden supposedly secure in her job in so many ways work was the focus. Main characters Lou, Murry, Ted and Sue Ann became somewhat cloying and stock. Mary had her stock moves like disgust or crying in ways that were annoying. Georgette and Ted was finally too much, too saccharine. Chuckles Bites the Dust is an annoying one joke, the end episode is just too much. The show was amazing when Mary lived in that super cool house and how she beat Rhoda out of the room when she had lived there for so long. And she was so guilty about doing it but kept the room. It was always better when the show focused on Mary's life outside of work, her relationship with Rhoda, her interaction with cool characters like the fireman or the wacky football player. There were not stock, cloying and annoying aspects to the show back then and the writing was so much more varied, creative and entertaining. And just for one thing I would have killed to live in that house with Mary.

12-19-2017, 12:25 AM	#2
Edward216 Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 18, 2014 Location: Central Time Zone Posts: 4,640	I was just a kid when the Mary Tyler Moore Show ran originally but I think it never jumped the shark and was a great show until the end. But I'll admit it took me a little while to get used to Mary's new apartment when she moved LOL. Ed.

01-03-2018, 07:34 AM	#3
Yong Fang Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 04, 2009 Location: Memphis Tennessee Posts: 3,073	I liked the show to the very end. Valarie Harper and Cloris Leachman went off to their own shows and their characters moved away, so naturally Mary's friends were her workmates. Couldn't really make a new best friend for Mary after Rhoda left. Georgette took up much of the slack I guess.

01-03-2018, 08:47 AM	#4
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	IMO the show NEVER jumped the shark; it was magnificent every single ep! It still sparkles to this very day.

01-03-2018, 03:11 PM	#5
Duster76 Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 01, 2008 Location: New jersey Posts: 1,653	A case can be made that the MTM show was the best show of the 70's (I'll admit it's a close call). In my opinion the show got stronger as the years went by, and you can't say that about many shows (All In the Family which is a strong contender for show of the decade did in my opinion jump the shark when Mike and Gloria moved out).

01-03-2018, 09:07 PM	#6
rcbrad Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 479	At first I thought that you were referring to the entire run of the show, because she had the M in her first apartment too when she first moved in. I do not think that the show jumped the shark at all, but I too prefer the earlier episodes when Rhoda and Phyllis were around. (first 5 seasons) Seven years is a long time for any sitcom, things do change.

01-06-2018, 06:22 AM	#8
Yong Fang Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 04, 2009 Location: Memphis Tennessee Posts: 3,073	MTM Show was good from beginning to end. It was even realistic in the finale when everyone but Ted was fired. Radio and Television Broadcasters are infamous for firing everyone and cleaning house and changing formats. That is what was sad, everyone lost their job, except for Ted, who deserved to lose his job.

01-10-2018, 12:33 AM	#9
gopyle Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 22, 2011 Posts: 235	I don't know that it completely jumped the shark, but after Rhoda left the show they concentrated too much on Georgette and Sue Ann for my liking.

03-04-2018, 11:43 PM	#10
Yong Fang Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 04, 2009 Location: Memphis Tennessee Posts: 3,073	When Lou Grant ran out of scotch at work, went crazy, forced himself on the Happy Homemaker and beat Ted Baxter to a bloody pulp with Mare crying saying "Oh, Mr. Graaaaant!" That's when the show lost me.

03-05-2018, 04:41 PM	#12
Dianne3 Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 07, 2002 Posts: 1,057	I'm going to contradict myself here - while the MTM is one of my favourite shows ever, the later years are depressing. Mary looks old at times, she has no close female friends and MTM becomes the Ted & Georgette show. No matter how many times I watch MTM, I am shocked at how much MTM aged once she cut her hair. MTM was still was an attractive women though, even though in years 3-5 she looked so much older than in years 1-2. But in year 6, especially in the episodes when MTM had that awful perm, it was depressing how old she looked. But once that perm was gone, she didn't look as bad. In the final season there was an episode when Mary was hooked on sleeping pills. By this time, Mary had no close female friends to help her through the night. This would have been a better episode if Rhoda & Phyllis were still around.

03-06-2018, 01:09 AM	#13
Yong Fang Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 04, 2009 Location: Memphis Tennessee Posts: 3,073	Mary was only 40 (going on 41) when the MTM Show went off the air in 1977. But I agree that she looked older than her actual age, which I attribute to her diabetes, drinking, smoking, the stress of headlining a television show and a failing marriage to Grant Tinker. There was a lot of darkness under that smile of hers. I made a thread with no response on this, but I hope someone does a movie about MTM's life. She was really the definition of that Bible verse of "To gain the whole World yet lose your own soul." I also think that 40 was a lot older in 1978 than 40 in 2018. People drink and smoke less, but eat more, so we are more youthful but fatter. The generation in their twenties now will be in their 40's and shocked how old the people their age looked. Seriously.

03-07-2018, 10:12 AM	#15
Willbo Member Forum Regular Join Date: Feb 10, 2012 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 862	I do not think the show ever jumped the shark. I do agree that Mary did not look good in season 6. She has no eyebrows. Although I did miss Rhoda and Phyllis I loved Sue Ann.