UM Opinions That Have Flipped 180

[TheCars1986]

After binge watching (and trying to catch up) a bunch of episodes on Prime, I got to thinking about how many opinions of mine have changed over the years. What are some of yours that you were so sure of at one point, but have now changed completely over the years? Biggest one for me is being 100% convinced that Tommy Zeigler was innocent and set up as a fall guy for the murders he was convicted of, but now I'm a firm believer in his guilt.

[RobinW]

Jeffrey MacDonald. From watching the UM segment, I initially believed there was no way MacDonald could be guilty if Helena Stoeckley and Greg Mitchell both confessed to the murders, a woman in a floppy hat was seen in neighbourhood, and Stoeckley and Jimmy Friar both corroborated the story about the phone call. But once you dig deeper into the case, you realize the case for MacDonald's innocence completely falls apart.

[JannTosh]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

After binge watching (and trying to catch up) a bunch of episodes on Prime, I got to thinking about how many opinions of mine have changed over the years. What are some of yours that you were so sure of at one point, but have now changed completely over the years? Biggest one for me is being 100% convinced that Tommy Zeigler was innocent and set up as a fall guy for the murders he was convicted of, but now I'm a firm believer in his guilt.

What changed your mind?

[justins5256]

Tim McClure. I used to think he was guilty. Now I think he was innocent.

Glen Consagra. I thought innocent when I first saw the story, but now I lean toward guilt and I think there is a good chance he acted alone after I recently visited Honeymoon Island and took in the terrain.

In a general sense, I think that when I was younger I just believed whatever scenario UM spun. Now that I'm older and have sharper critical thinking skills, I tend to question the presentation a lot more. I'm not sure if it is old age, life experience, improved critical thinking, or what, but I'm a lot more cynical than I used to be in thinking about UM cases.

[Todd Mueller]

Originally Posted by justins5256

In a general sense, I think that when I was younger I just believed whatever scenario UM spun. Now that I'm older and have sharper critical thinking skills, I tend to question the presentation a lot more. I'm not sure if it is old age, life experience, improved critical thinking, or what, but I'm a lot more cynical than I used to be in thinking about UM cases.

I 100% identify with this. In high school, I was more apt to make a quick judgement and believe the UM slant. Now I look at it with a different eye.

I do think most of the suicides were that and not murder, when my view of that used to be opposite. I think in general most of the conspiracies I bought into at a younger age are less likely to be true. I’ve also softened my stance on quite a few (maybe a 90° change?). For example, I used to think Tim McClure was definitely the murderer of his mom. Now I think he knows more than he ever said, but I’m not convinced he pulled the trigger.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by JannTosh

What changed your mind?

Just the amount of witnesses (some of which were not biased at all, nor did they have any possible involvement or implication of the murders) who came forward and implicated Zeigler. Felton Thomas's story has never changed. Had he been inside the store that night and fled after a robbery gone wrong, I don't think he would be able to consistently maintain that lie for over 40 years.

[bell83]

A lot of suicide/murder segments. I can't think of specific ones at the moment, but a lot of them I believed the slant of possible murder or whatever they were saying they thought might have happened. Now...given some time and my own experiences with depression/suicidal thoughts...I can DEFINITELY see where suicide is a very likely answer to what happened. A lot of the time, they give the standard "s/he would never do that to me/us" or whatever, and...yes. They very well could have. Everyone has a breaking point. And when a person hits that breaking point, it isn't always immediately obvious. I've been there, and many people who knew me well had absolutely no idea until I said something to them. Am I saying I'm 100% "this was a suicide" on these cases? No. But I definitely believe it is very possible/likely.

[cdr369]

For me, quite a bit of my opinions change often. And it doesn't help to get on here and read other people's opinions, because then I begin to shift or doubt my own. And actually unsolved mysteries has taught me a bit about myself too, and how I perceive crime/ and society in general.

I am not very trusting of law enforcement in general, so if I hear Robert Stack say "according to Law Enforcement ..." , I generally know I will doubt the validity of that claim. And if I have to weigh what police say, versus what the "suspect" says or claims, I pretty much weigh them on the same level. A prosecutor would never want me on their jury.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by bell83

A lot of suicide/murder segments. I can't think of specific ones at the moment, but a lot of them I believed the slant of possible murder or whatever they were saying they thought might have happened. Now...given some time and my own experiences with depression/suicidal thoughts...I can DEFINITELY see where suicide is a very likely answer to what happened. A lot of the time, they give the standard "s/he would never do that to me/us" or whatever, and...yes. They very well could have. Everyone has a breaking point. And when a person hits that breaking point, it isn't always immediately obvious. I've been there, and many people who knew me well had absolutely no idea until I said something to them. Am I saying I'm 100% "this was a suicide" on these cases? No. But I definitely believe it is very possible/likely.

Yep. As I've said in other threads were suicide was debated "you never know what's going through someones head, and what they're capable of"

Most people view suicide debated deaths as "they had everything going for them" or "I wouldn't do that, so I don't think they would". Like I say, you never know what's going on in someone's head. I also think mental illness is more rampant than people would like to believe.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by freakbook

I also think mental illness is more rampant than people would like to believe.

I subscribe to that, as well.

[Awsi Dooger]

Let's see, a 180 and this program makes me think of Alcatraz.

And that raft...180 after dark cold 180.

Also my current avatar. A 180 there probably wouldn't be too bad. Just a guess.

[Mike82]

Originally Posted by cdr369

I am not very trusting of law enforcement in general, so if I hear Robert Stack say "according to Law Enforcement ..." , I generally know I will doubt the validity of that claim. And if I have to weigh what police say, versus what the "suspect" says or claims, I pretty much weigh them on the same level. A prosecutor would never want me on their jury.

This is one area where I have flipped 180 on. I used to trust police, prosecutors, etc and believed they cared about truth and justice unless they were clearly in the wrong (like in Patty Stallings). A number of experiences including two trips to traffic court showed me that cops will lie their butts off and make stories up, prosecutors will bully you and paint you as a horrible person by twisting your words and the judge will automatically believe them by default and call YOU a liar even when you can demonstrate the cop is lying.

I also now tend to believe that many of the suspected murders are actually suicides. When the family says "but XYZ was so happy recently: they would N-E-V-E-R kill themselves" that pretty much tell me they were at a high risk of suicide and the simplest explanation is usually the best one.

[Hambone2421]

Good Topic.

I used to think Tim McClure was guilty. Now I'm positive he was innocent.

I would have bet money that Don Dixon killed Eric Tamiyasu. Now I just think he's an attention whore who put himself into the situation way more than it needed to be.

I was positive Jeffrey MacDonald was innocent but as RobinW said, once you start digging, you find out that he's guilty.

I'm sure there are others but those are the first ones that come to mind.

[TheCars1986]

Also thought Judith Hyams (or Hiams) was possibly still alive after her disappearance, until someone posted a fairly lengthy article which named one of the nurses who helped assist with her abortion was the one most likely responsible for those mysterious phone calls.

[RobinW]

Used to believe Dub Wackerhagen murdered Latricia White and went on the run with Chance, but I'm now 100 % convinced all three of them were murdered by someone else.