Revisiting the Cindy James case and "The Deaths of Cindy James" book

[Todd Mueller]

There are many other threads on Cindy James, but after reading Neal Hall’s book “The Deaths of Cindy James” recently, I want to start a new thread with some info that I don’t think has been mentioned before. I apologize in advance for how long this is…

If all you know about this case comes from the UM story, then you only know a very small part of the story. Neal Hall’s book was excellent and goes into great detail on Cindy’s history as well as the details of her death and the aftermath. If you get a chance to read it, I highly recommend it. The book is out of print but can still be found online. (Funny enough, it was $5.95 new, it had a $1.00 sticker on it from a used book store, and I paid $14.00 for it on Amazon… Oh, well.) I was hoping the book would shift my mind into the “she was murdered” side or “she did it all herself” side. There was a TON of new information to me, but honestly it only strengthens the case for both points of view.

I know dynoguy88 has read the Neal Hall book as well as the other book on Cindy’s case, so I welcome his thoughts on this. Also, RobinW did an excellent review of this case on his podcast, “The Trail Went Cold.” It is worth your time to listen.

Here are the key points that I want to bring up that I learned about Cindy:

1. Had significant “Daddy issues”
I have no doubt that Cindy’s parents loved her very much. But her Dad, Otto Hack, was very controlling (at least in Cindy’s mind) and they had an odd relationship. She seemed to imply that he was abusive and overly harsh. This also blends in to her overall relationship with men -- she didn't have long, healthy relationships with men. Cindy had wanted to go study at the university, but her dad didn't want her to go. He seemed to think women should serve in a more "traditional" role. Cindy’s dad was hell bent on trying to clear her name after her death. Part of this is because it was obviously his daughter whom he loved, but also because his Christian beliefs don’t allow for suicide as an acceptable manner of death. One thing that made me go “Hmmm” is that during part of Otto Hack’s testimony about Cindy as a young girl during the inquest into her death, her sisters both suddenly got up and left the courtroom. When asked why, they would only say it was “personal.” As we have discussed in other cases, one person’s parenting style is another’ persons abuse (physical or mental).

2. Did not take the separation from her husband well
There was a significant age difference between Cindy and her husband, Roy Makepeace (who was only 6 years younger than her dad). That alone makes me wonder if Roy was a husband of more of a “father figure” to her. Cindy had been dating and possibly engaged to a doctor prior to her husband, but that man was killed in a car accident. It sounds like their marriage was pretty good overall, but they did have their boiling points. Roy loved to sail but Cindy did not, and she seemed to have a fear of the water/drowning. After they were separated, they remained close and still went out together a lot. Cindy definitely had a love/hate relationship with Roy after her divorce. She left him and yet she felt “abandoned” by him. Much later, under hypnosis, Cindy had a “memory recall” of an event on an island while sailing with her husband. She remembered that she walked in on him and there were two dead bodies and a whole lot of blood. This became a recurring theme for her, although there was never any corroborating evidence of this story. Cindy even confronted her ex about this on the phone (while the line was recorded) but he gave no indication that it was true or that he was lying.

3. Had issues being intimately close to men, after her husband
After leaving her husband, she dated a few other men but never had a close relationship with another man. She was dating/sleeping with Pat McBride (the cop) yet she didn’t want to commit to him like he wanted to commit to her. After Pat, there is no evidence she dated any man officially (in spite of many suitors). Her many therapists concluded that she had intimacy issues with men. This could be due to the issues with her dad and/or the issues with her husband.

4. Had above average intelligence
While being tested during a stay at a psychiatric hospital, Cindy took many standardized tests. One of them showed her in the “superior” category for intelligence. What struck me about this was that it would probably take a very smart person to pull this off by herself. She was book smart and crafty, and a bit manipulative. This certainly doesn’t prove she did it – but she is far from just an average middle age woman. In a strange footnote, one of her sisters took one of Cindy’s purses after her death. When she got home, she found a glasscutter inside. Several of Cindy’s harassment incidents included someone cutting the glass to her basement windows.

5. Had significant issues getting regular sleep and likely had PTSD
At least two of the psychiatrists who examined Cindy and her case thought she very likely had PTSD. The event that triggered the PTSD was likely from early childhood, and was likely physical abuse, sexual abuse, or a horrible scene that Cindy witnessed. The evidence of this is strong, and also comes back to the issues with her dad. Cindy also had a HORRIBLE time getting regular sleep and had frequent nightmares, which are telltale signs of PTSD. This led to her not getting regular sleep, which I think caused her a great deal of stress. Anyone who has worked overnights or had a baby knows it is hell going for days on end without getting enough sleep. Chronic fatigue will lead to all sorts of other problems.

6. Kept a journal for several months that gives great insight into her state of mind
This, to me, was the best part of the book and it really gave a good view of what Cindy was thinking. She was troubled by a lot of things. Some were real, some were of her own creation. However, Cindy was a lovely, sweet, caring person who did a lot for her patients and the people she worked with. She loved to be with her dog and took great pride in gardening. She also had a lot of trouble opening up to and trusting other people, and she seemed to not be able to judge people’s motivations in their dealings with her. There were days she slept better and felt great, and there were days she was barely holding on. She had definitely had suicidal thoughts several times in her life. That doesn’t mean she wanted to die, but she was very troubled about a lot of things.

7. Abduction and death scene make no sense
Cindy went to the bank yet parked in the middle of the lot (not near the door, which was her norm). There were groceries in the front seat, yet none of the items were perishable and there was no receipt. (Also, the police couldn’t match the items she had with a cash register receipt from the store – odd.) Witnesses remember seeing someone matching Cindy’s description in the parking lot, but she did not appear in distress. Her bank card was found under her car, with a the paper bank receipt found under the card so it wouldn't blow away (the odds that it just fell like that are pretty bad). She was found two weeks later 1.5 km from the “abduction” site next to a fairly busy road. There are many signs that she may have been moved to this site or not been there the entire time, yet there are no signs of anyone perpetrator. She had a significant amount of drugs in her system that could have been ingested or injected. The coroner found traces of pills in her stomach so it is likely she ingested at least some of them. This would make the murder theory more likely. The knots could have been done by Cindy. She was found without shoes and none were found near her, yet her feet appeared to be clean.

8. Cindy withheld information
Duh, right? But it isn’t just what she held back from the police. She wouldn’t tell her family, her friends, or her therapist about events from a long time ago. It seems that something from her past caused PTSD and this was the root of her problems. No one was ever able to figure out what that event(s) were. In spite of many attacks, she was very vague with the police about the descriptions of her attacker(s). I know in the UM segment her mom said “She was told not to say anything or her mom and sister would be next.” That is total B.S. because the police knew the details of her attacks from the start. So this could be because Cindy knew her attacker and didn’t want to let the police know, or she chose to be evasive, or she was doing it to herself.

9. Something is up with the black stocking
Almost every time she was physically attacked, Cindy had a black nylon stocking tied tightly around her neck. This is either a calling card of the attacker or it has meaning to Cindy. Neal Hall cited a case of a woman from the US whose case was very similar to Cindy’s. In her case, there was a red bandana that kept showing up. In the end, it was proved this woman faked her attacks. Her issues stemmed from an event in childhood where she was raped by a stranger who stuffed a red bandana in her mouth to keep her quiet. The black stocking on Cindy's neck tied so tightly time and time again makes me think that she was remembering or reenacting some horrible past event.

10. She had mental illness, in some form
Whether it was PTSD, multiple personality syndrome, borderline personality syndrome, schizophrenia, or some combination, this poor woman was troubled. She had some sort of mental illness that could never be fully resolved. Whether the mental illness caused her to stage events, or whether the events caused her mental illness is obviously up for debate. It is just really, really sad how troubled this poor woman was and the fact she could never fully get the help she needed.

In the end, Neal Hall (who was very sympathetic to Cindy in his book) felt that Cindy’s death was due to suicide, however she may not have intended to die. It may have been another event to get attention or it may have been due to multiple personality syndrome. I thought the book was very objective and did not slant towards one side or the other.

So we are left with one of two conclusions: Someone hated Cindy so much that they devoted years to taunting her and attacking her, leaving her near death many times, only to finally kill her... Or she created these events in her mind and did them to herself for attention.

There were hundreds of events spanning many years. (While reading the book I lost count of how many times her phone lines were cut, not to mention the notes and threatening calls.) The other odd thing is that there were periods of many months were there were no events of any kind. Often, the events started up again after upsetting events in Cindy’s life (interactions with her ex, losing her job, etc.) If it was someone out to get her, just think of how much effort that would take on someone’s part. You’d have to really hate someone to devote that much time and years of your life to try and harass them. The same could be said for Cindy, yet if you are mentally ill I think that would explain a lot. The craziest thing to me is that no one was ever caught doing this to Cindy, yet she was never caught doing this to herself or setting it up.

I agree with RobinW’s conclusion on this, that it may likely have been a combination. I do think Cindy was harassed to some degree by someone at some point, but I also think she made up some (or many) of her events to get sympathy and attention. There is also evidence that she could have had a partner who helped set up some of the attacks, but who this person is and why they would want to do this is unknown. I just don't see a suspect who would do this for so long. Her ex husband was out of the country for some of the attacks, so it couldn't have been him (unless he hired people to carry this out).

In the end, I just feel horrible for Cindy and all of her family and friends. I can’t even imagine the hell they all went through for many years, and there are still no answers. Cindy seemed to be a beautiful, sweet lady who loved her job. I pray that in death she has found the peace she never could find on Earth.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this, especially from dynoguy88 and anyone else who has read Neal Hall’s book.

[TheCars1986]

Thanks for all of the info!

Still convinced she was doing it all by herself and that there was no attacker.

[SPD Yellow]

I had leaned towards "She did it to herself" for a while, but the details you've mentioned, make me even more certain. It's the details about the glass cutter and the black stockings that really sway me. I think she just had deep-rooted issues and didn't know how or couldn't find a way to address them in a healthy manner.

[alistaircranium]

She was murdered, and it always sickens me when I see people accusing her of doing it to herself.

[dynoguy88]

I don’t know much more I can say that I haven’t already said before without sounding like a broken record player. The book is an addicting read. And despite many people not liking the way Neal Hall came across in the segment, his book is fair and balanced. Instead of choosing a side, he writes the facts of what were found and when they were found and lets the reader decide for himself/herself. The problem is I still can’t take a side. There is no way to conclusively prove one side over the other.

Regardless if she was really stalked then murdered or she somehow orchestrated the whole thing herself, I have a major problem with the Vancouver and Richmond Police. I think it was barely a year before they stopped believing a stalker was after her and once the attacks started happening, they pretty much faked sympathy to her face but felt none themselves. They didn’t fool her, though. She knew she wasn’t believed and that slowly drove her crazy.

So much time, money and manpower was put in place to watch her house year after year. Yet they always told her when surveillance was calling quits for the night. It was only at the inquest a year after her death that one of the officers said they wished they told her at times that surveillance was taking off but still secretly kept watching her to catch her in the act. They should have done that as early as 1984/85 when they stopped believing her. If they catch her in the act, they show that evidence to the police, to Cindy’s loved ones, and arrange for her to get the help she would need. Chaos and stress over, then everyone goes on with their lives. They didn’t do that. And it should not have taken them 7 years to come up with that idea. They couldn’t catch a stalker but they couldn’t catch her in the act either…over a seven year period.

A few incidents were written in the book that I don’t see how she could have staged. Robin mentioned them in the Trail Went Cold podcast. If she orchestrated the whole thing, the ability to keep evidence hidden from her family, friends and Ozzie Kaban is downright insane. All of those threatening cut and paste letters would have taken a tedious amount of time to make. And some of those letters she threw away without even opening. All of those dead cats being thrown in her front and backyard time after time is another disturbing thought. On one occasion, the police found out that one of the cats had been hit by a car. So your mind has to wonder, if she was behind everything, of Cindy driving around the city searching for roadkill to throw in her yard or her killing cats herself. She would have to pull this off after living with Pat McBride or Tom and Agnes Woodcock, who stayed with her for years because they were afraid for her safety. All of this and working full time, I don’t know how she could have done it.

The death scene will make your head spin, as we’ve discussed in the past. A squatter lived and cooked his meals less than 5 meters from the corpse yet he never noticed a body or any foul odor. The abandoned house on that lot was used as a party house by local high school kids. They frequently went to the squatter’s van and banged on the windows to harass him while he was sleeping and these kids had two parties at the house during the time Cindy was missing and they never saw a corpse either. If you combine that with the amount of flurazepam AND morphine in her system, I just don’t see how her body could not have been dumped where it was.

This case has haunted me ever since I first saw the UM segment as a 4th grader. I really hate that we’ll never know the truth.

[neognosis]

is it still possible to DNA test those items that would solve this case?

[RobinW]

Excellent post with a lot of interesting information. This is probably still the one UM case I go back-and-forth on more than any other. A lot of this info paints Cindy as a troubled person and points toward the mental illness/suicide theory, but I still believe Cindy did face at least some genuine harassment at one point which may have eventually caused her to have a mental breakdown and start staging her own attacks. There are other independent witnesses who did see Cindy receive some strange silent phone calls early on, though admittedly, no one else actually heard anyone threaten her life, so for all we know, those silent phone calls may have been as extreme as the harassment ever got. There’s also one incident where Cindy’s burglar alarm went off because the glass window in her basement door was removed and the Woodcocks verified that Cindy was in the room with them while this happened, but I will concede this could have been an unrelated failed burglary attempt which had nothing to do with Cindy.

You’re absolutely right about Cindy’s death scene not making any sense and that’s why I’ve always had trouble believing she could have staged her own suicide. The most troubling aspect is that no one can account for Cindy’s whereabouts in the two weeks between when she vanished and when she was found. It just seems impossible she could have been in the yard those entire two weeks without being seen and her body probably would have been in a much more advanced state of decomposition. So even if Cindy committed suicide shortly before she was found, where was she hiding out after she disappeared? I could believe she overdosed at another location and that someone else dumped her body there, but who?

[Jon]

If you have heard the "You're dead meat" recording (which was not played in the UM segment) you'd have a hard time believing it was done by Cindy herself, even if she had access to the voice-changing technology that was available at the time. I think she was murdered.

[JannTosh]

the fact that if a harasser existed he would have to be some kind of superhuman ninja to never get spotted and leave zero evidence behind everytime. I think she was mentally ill and then committed suicide, though I guess there is the possibility someone took advantage of her mentally ill state and killed her,

[Todd Mueller]

Originally Posted by alistaircranium

She was murdered, and it always sickens me when I see people accusing her of doing it to herself.

Have you read Neal Hall's book? (I mean that seriously -- not being a smart ass.) There is certainly no smoking gun that she did it herself, but there is a whole lot of signs that point that at least some of the incidents were done by Cindy.

Please keep in mind, too, that just because she may have done things to herself doesn't mean she CONSCIOUSLY did things to herself. I honestly don't think she did this intentionally as a lucid person. I think she suffered mental illness and possibly even multiple personality syndrome. I think she was troubled, on prescription medication, and sleep deprived. Often times after the events she had bouts of amnesia.

I can understand that you don't think she did it to herself, and that's fine. But it shouldn't anger you that people may think that as there is evidence to back that up. That doesn't make Cindy a bad person -- she was troubled and badly needed help. I honestly feel sorry for her.

[Todd Mueller]

Originally Posted by neognosis

is it still possible to DNA test those items that would solve this case?

I doubt it. However, with that said, I have no doubt if this case happened today it would have been very different. First of all, they would have better phone records and they would be able to trace the calls quicker and more accurately.

Also, there were cigarette butts at a couple of the attack scenes that weren't Cindy's brand. I'm sure those could be tested today.

But they never found any fingerprints, and as far as I can tell, never found any significant clues. The book said on the last attack they found "two gray pubic hairs that did not match Cindy's." Those could have been tested as well, but I highly doubt they still exist in an evidence room anywhere.

[neognosis]

Originally Posted by Todd Mueller

I doubt it. However, with that said, I have no doubt if this case happened today it would have been very different. First of all, they would have better phone records and they would be able to trace the calls quicker and more accurately.

Also, there were cigarette butts at a couple of the attack scenes that weren't Cindy's brand. I'm sure those could be tested today.

But they never found any fingerprints, and as far as I can tell, never found any significant clues. The book said on the last attack they found "two gray pubic hairs that did not match Cindy's." Those could have been tested as well, but I highly doubt they still exist in an evidence room anywhere.

so does the book explain such things as Cindy not changing her phone #, not changing her name legally, moving away to another city, leaving canada to USA with new name, perhaps having roomates or moving with other people say in a group home or having college students as roomates buying dogs

[Todd Mueller]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

So much time, money and manpower was put in place to watch her house year after year. Yet they always told her when surveillance was calling quits for the night. It was only at the inquest a year after her death that one of the officers said they wished they told her at times that surveillance was taking off but still secretly kept watching her to catch her in the act. They should have done that as early as 1984/85 when they stopped believing her. If they catch her in the act, they show that evidence to the police, to Cindy’s loved ones, and arrange for her to get the help she would need. Chaos and stress over, then everyone goes on with their lives. They didn’t do that. And it should not have taken them 7 years to come up with that idea. They couldn’t catch a stalker but they couldn’t catch her in the act either…over a seven year period.

YES! This x 1000...

Granted, there would be times where months would go by without an incident. But you can't tell me they couldn't have done super-secret surveillance and either caught the perp or caught her doing it.

What blows my mind after reading the book is how many incidents there were. Whether it was broken windows, lights unscrewed, letters, calls, dead cats, etc., somebody took a lot of time to do this. Even if Cindy did it herself, it is crazy how much time this would have taken. I agree that you'd think at some point she would have screwed up and left cut up magazines and letters in her house.

The Woodcocks are very interesting to me. They spend an ungodly amount of time with her, often staying up until 3am playing bridge with her (since she couldn't sleep). They reported hearing things and being there when the burglar alarm went off while they were with Cindy. But one odd thing from the book, was when Cindy filled out an "autobiography" for the mental hospital. When asked to list her closest friends, the Woodcocks weren't on the list at all.

I agree with you, dynoguy88. I too have been haunted by this case since i first saw it and I don't think we'll ever know the truth. It is sad because it should have been so solvable. If the police had put in maximum effort earlier on, I think agree that we'd know one way or the other.

[Todd Mueller]

Originally Posted by neognosis

so does the book explain such things as Cindy not changing her phone #, not changing her name legally, moving away to another city, leaving canada to USA with new name, perhaps having roomates or moving with other people say in a group home or having college students as roomates buying dogs

Yes, and this is part of what is odd. She did change her phone number several times and got unlisted numbers. Yet oddly, she gave out her number to too many people (or the wrong people). She did eventually legally change her name from Cindy Makepeace to Cindy James.

Many people suggested she leave the country to get a fresh start and escape the harassment. She said something to the effect of "he'll just find me no matter where I go." At times she had downstairs renters, but yet never lived full time with anyone. She did stay with people from time to time but always came back to live on her own.

For someone who was terrified with fear and trying to end this, she did odd things like walk her dog at 3am (occasionally). That is one of the big oddities of this case. Even if she didn't do these things to herself, she didn't exactly do everything in her power to prevent it.

In another odd footnote, both her ex-husband and one of her sisters got weird, threatening phone calls after Cindy's death. They could have been just pranks but still... it makes you wonder.

[Todd Mueller]

As I mentioned in my first post, there was a similar case except this one involved a red bandana instead of a black nylon stocking. This is the case of Ruth Finley, and it is crazy in its own right, but also has a lot of similarities to the Cindy James case.

You can read a good summary of the story here.

If you are interested in the Cindy James case, this is well worth the read. This doesn't prove anything to Cindy's case, but does show what can happen to someone who is mentally ill and the victim of childhood sexual assault, as has been theorized in Cindy's case.