If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

stevea · 07-09-2017, 08:35 PM

I've been reading up on Rhoda, and the biggest shock I got, was what a blockbuster hit this show was--BUT only in the first two seasons:

Season 1 - #6

Season 2 - #7

Season 3 - #32

Season 4 - #25

Season 5 - #43 (partial season - cancelled in mid-season, with unaired episodes)

The second-biggest shock -- that CBS would ALLOW MTM (the writers claimed to be having trouble writing for the show, with Joe) a blockbuster show to have such a major change as a separation/divorce, after the second season. (A day/time change mid-season may also have affected the ratings).

Mr. Television · 07-09-2017, 09:13 PM

They built that wedding so far up only to split them up. The audience felt cheated. Nancy Walker also left about that time for a year. The first 2 years were the best. I don't even think I've seen much of the last few.

stevea · 07-09-2017, 10:10 PM

I think the wedding had 56 million viewers (unheard of today). Howard Cosell supposedly made a comment on Monday Night Football (which Rhoda had obviously clobbered in the ratings), welcoming viewers after the wedding.

Yes, Nancy Walker's leaving would hurt. She was essential.

JSP · 07-14-2017, 09:53 AM

Season 4 was my favorite of the series. But I know I'm in the minority there. Season 3 was too dramatic of a change, and the show's ratings suffered as a result. You don't move forward by going backwards, which is what the writers were trying to do. They felt they couldn't write Rhoda as a married woman; they had to restore her to single status, which was B.S.

OOliver · 07-16-2017, 11:13 PM

Season 3 saw so many changes - David Groh, Nancy Walker, and Harold Gould all left the show. Then they brought in Anne Meara, who had no chemistry with anyone else in the cast, and Ron Silver (who was excellent). Throw in the other cast of unlikeable characters like Benny and Johnny Venture, and it was a recipe for disaster.

By Season 4, it kind of found it's groove again - though they tried to bring in a Lou Grant character Jack Doyle (Rhoda's new boss) which added very little to the show. But the ratings went up!

By Season 5, Harper let it be known that this was going to be the last season for her - she wasn't renewing for future seasons. The network ordered 13 episodes (which was considered a 'full season' back then; her other seasons produced 24 episodes, which is unheard of today), but tucked it away on a Saturday night at 8 PM - against NBC's ever popular CHIPS, where more of Rhoda's audience was probably interested in seeing Erik Estrada take his shirt off in some episodes. Ratings suffered and the show was cancelled.

Allegedly, there were plans for the network to spin-off 'Brenda' in the Spring of 1979 if 'Rhoda' was picked up for another 11 episodes. They were going to continue with her engagement, and eventually marry her off - and move her away from Manhattan with hubby Benny. So if 'Rhoda' ended with Harper gone, they still would have had 'Brenda' in September, 1979. (Nancy Walker would have joined her). Of course, that never happened.

AB · 07-17-2017, 06:16 PM

<Allegedly, there were plans for the network to spin-off 'Brenda' in the Spring of 1979 if 'Rhoda' was picked up for another 11 episodes. They were going to continue with her engagement, and eventually marry her off - and move her away from Manhattan with hubby Benny. So if 'Rhoda' ended with Harper gone, they still would have had 'Brenda' in September, 1979. (Nancy Walker would have joined her). Of course, that never happened.>

I liked Brenda (Julie Kavner). She & Nancy Walker could have made the show work. They should have ordered a few episodes to see how it would do. I'm sure many of the fans of Rhoda would have watched it.

rcbrad · 07-17-2017, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOliver

Season 3 saw so many changes - David Groh, Nancy Walker, and Harold Gould all left the show. Then they brought in Anne Meara, who had no chemistry with anyone else in the cast, and Ron Silver (who was excellent). Throw in the other cast of unlikeable characters like Benny and Johnny Venture, and it was a recipe for disaster.

By Season 4, it kind of found it's groove again - though they tried to bring in a Lou Grant character Jack Doyle (Rhoda's new boss) which added very little to the show. But the ratings went up!

By Season 5, Harper let it be known that this was going to be the last season for her - she wasn't renewing for future seasons. The network ordered 13 episodes (which was considered a 'full season' back then; her other seasons produced 24 episodes, which is unheard of today), but tucked it away on a Saturday night at 8 PM - against NBC's ever popular CHIPS, where more of Rhoda's audience was probably interested in seeing Erik Estrada take his shirt off in some episodes. Ratings suffered and the show was cancelled.

Allegedly, there were plans for the network to spin-off 'Brenda' in the Spring of 1979 if 'Rhoda' was picked up for another 11 episodes. They were going to continue with her engagement, and eventually marry her off - and move her away from Manhattan with hubby Benny. So if 'Rhoda' ended with Harper gone, they still would have had 'Brenda' in September, 1979. (Nancy Walker would have joined her). Of course, that never happened.

You make many interesting and good points, but beginning in season four IMO, the overall quality went down somewhat. It did not have the same overall feel as the first three seasons. Some of the humor became contrived and was becoming silly. The producers also changed and it was unfortunate to have Rhoda work for a broken down costume company along with the new characters not adding much. They should have had her work somewhere or with something that was more exciting and lively along with a stronger workplace cast, since the divorce was melancholy/depressing enough.

In the seventies 24-26 episodes or so were the norm for a full season. Many times Networks order 13 or less episodes at a time, just in case they may wish to cancel the show before the full season was over. I assume that this what happened with Rhoda, since the ratings took a nosedive from a once top ten show and CBS never aired the last four episodes that were produced during the original run. Many shows are not given full season commitments during new season renewals. This practice still continues today.

TV Guy · 09-04-2017, 01:38 PM

The final couple of seasons were just depressing. Rhoda was divorced and in going-nowhere job. We had watched her for nine years, and it kinda stunk that she wound up the way she did.

They never should have married her off so quickly when the series started. They could have gotten a lot more mileage out of a courtship and engagement. And they never should have paired her with a macho jerk like Joe.

Julie Kavner was a talent and they should have put her in a brand new show, rather than stick her with the aftertaste of Rhoda's final years. Kavner did do at least one CBS sitcom pilot that I know of in the 1980s ("A Fine Romance") but it wasn't picked up. http://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/20/ar...e-romance.html

ParadiseKendra · 08-24-2018, 02:52 PM

I am not at ALL surprised. I actually haven't been able to watch it all the way through and Rhoda is possibly my favorite character of ALL time. However, what they did to her and to her marriage with Joe was absolutely insane.

No man has EVER gone through an entire divorce with his wife so he can then, date her. As in he still loves her, wants to be with her and make love to her, but first he wants a divorce. Oh give a break.

After being with a woman as cold as his first wife, Rhoda, the polar opposite as a humble, loving, open, glowing woman was everything he could've ever asked for. He was a wonderful husband to her and he was wonderful to her family. I was skeptical of Joe at first because he was on General Hospital in 1983 and he was Bobbie Spencer's husband and oh my god, what a cruel, awful, icky, SCARY man he played. Yikes!

But, I have to say that I loved Joe! I loved Joe with Rhoda. Rhoda, iconic feminist that she was, WANTED to be in love and be married. Many of us do. So that was a really idiotic and unrealistic thing to do to the two of them. I pretend it didn't even happen, it was so absurd. No one wants to see their favorite heroine get screwed over like that. Grrrr, still makes me mad.

stevea · 08-24-2018, 05:56 PM

What happened with the ratings backs up what you're saying--season 2 #7, season 3 #32. It was probably one of the most boneheaded moves in TV history.

OH Nuts! · 12-25-2018, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

What happened with the ratings backs up what you're saying--season 2 #7, season 3 #32. It was probably one of the most boneheaded moves in TV history.

Yup...sigh...WHY do these”great minds” always feel that they have to reinvent the wheel?

07-09-2017, 08:35 PM	#1
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,161	If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It I've been reading up on Rhoda, and the biggest shock I got, was what a blockbuster hit this show was--BUT only in the first two seasons: Season 1 - #6 Season 2 - #7 Season 3 - #32 Season 4 - #25 Season 5 - #43 (partial season - cancelled in mid-season, with unaired episodes) The second-biggest shock -- that CBS would ALLOW MTM (the writers claimed to be having trouble writing for the show, with Joe) a blockbuster show to have such a major change as a separation/divorce, after the second season. (A day/time change mid-season may also have affected the ratings).

08-24-2018, 02:52 PM	#9
ParadiseKendra Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 12, 2018 Location: Virginia Posts: 31	I am not at ALL surprised. I actually haven't been able to watch it all the way through and Rhoda is possibly my favorite character of ALL time. However, what they did to her and to her marriage with Joe was absolutely insane. No man has EVER gone through an entire divorce with his wife so he can then, date her. As in he still loves her, wants to be with her and make love to her, but first he wants a divorce. Oh give a break. After being with a woman as cold as his first wife, Rhoda, the polar opposite as a humble, loving, open, glowing woman was everything he could've ever asked for. He was a wonderful husband to her and he was wonderful to her family. I was skeptical of Joe at first because he was on General Hospital in 1983 and he was Bobbie Spencer's husband and oh my god, what a cruel, awful, icky, SCARY man he played. Yikes! But, I have to say that I loved Joe! I loved Joe with Rhoda. Rhoda, iconic feminist that she was, WANTED to be in love and be married. Many of us do. So that was a really idiotic and unrealistic thing to do to the two of them. I pretend it didn't even happen, it was so absurd. No one wants to see their favorite heroine get screwed over like that. Grrrr, still makes me mad.
	__________________ Paradise ► livejournal \| tumblr ♥ I Dream of Jeannie \| Mary Tyler Moore \| That Girl \| Taxi \| Rhoda \| Frasier ♥

07-09-2017, 09:13 PM	#2
Mr. Television 22 Years at Sitcoms Online Forum Icon Join Date: Jun 06, 2003 Location: Somewhere you're Not Posts: 62,125	They built that wedding so far up only to split them up. The audience felt cheated. Nancy Walker also left about that time for a year. The first 2 years were the best. I don't even think I've seen much of the last few.
	__________________ Sonny

07-09-2017, 10:10 PM	#3
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,161	I think the wedding had 56 million viewers (unheard of today). Howard Cosell supposedly made a comment on Monday Night Football (which Rhoda had obviously clobbered in the ratings), welcoming viewers after the wedding. Yes, Nancy Walker's leaving would hurt. She was essential.

07-14-2017, 09:53 AM	#4
JSP Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 19, 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 2,735	Season 4 was my favorite of the series. But I know I'm in the minority there. Season 3 was too dramatic of a change, and the show's ratings suffered as a result. You don't move forward by going backwards, which is what the writers were trying to do. They felt they couldn't write Rhoda as a married woman; they had to restore her to single status, which was B.S.

07-16-2017, 11:13 PM	#5
OOliver Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 28, 2009 Location: Providence RI Posts: 569	Season 3 saw so many changes - David Groh, Nancy Walker, and Harold Gould all left the show. Then they brought in Anne Meara, who had no chemistry with anyone else in the cast, and Ron Silver (who was excellent). Throw in the other cast of unlikeable characters like Benny and Johnny Venture, and it was a recipe for disaster. By Season 4, it kind of found it's groove again - though they tried to bring in a Lou Grant character Jack Doyle (Rhoda's new boss) which added very little to the show. But the ratings went up! By Season 5, Harper let it be known that this was going to be the last season for her - she wasn't renewing for future seasons. The network ordered 13 episodes (which was considered a 'full season' back then; her other seasons produced 24 episodes, which is unheard of today), but tucked it away on a Saturday night at 8 PM - against NBC's ever popular CHIPS, where more of Rhoda's audience was probably interested in seeing Erik Estrada take his shirt off in some episodes. Ratings suffered and the show was cancelled. Allegedly, there were plans for the network to spin-off 'Brenda' in the Spring of 1979 if 'Rhoda' was picked up for another 11 episodes. They were going to continue with her engagement, and eventually marry her off - and move her away from Manhattan with hubby Benny. So if 'Rhoda' ended with Harper gone, they still would have had 'Brenda' in September, 1979. (Nancy Walker would have joined her). Of course, that never happened.

07-17-2017, 06:16 PM	#6
AB Member Eternal Member Forum Icon Join Date: Dec 26, 2006 Location: The South Posts: 59,426	<Allegedly, there were plans for the network to spin-off 'Brenda' in the Spring of 1979 if 'Rhoda' was picked up for another 11 episodes. They were going to continue with her engagement, and eventually marry her off - and move her away from Manhattan with hubby Benny. So if 'Rhoda' ended with Harper gone, they still would have had 'Brenda' in September, 1979. (Nancy Walker would have joined her). Of course, that never happened.> I liked Brenda (Julie Kavner). She & Nancy Walker could have made the show work. They should have ordered a few episodes to see how it would do. I'm sure many of the fans of Rhoda would have watched it.

09-04-2017, 01:38 PM	#8
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	The final couple of seasons were just depressing. Rhoda was divorced and in going-nowhere job. We had watched her for nine years, and it kinda stunk that she wound up the way she did. They never should have married her off so quickly when the series started. They could have gotten a lot more mileage out of a courtship and engagement. And they never should have paired her with a macho jerk like Joe. Julie Kavner was a talent and they should have put her in a brand new show, rather than stick her with the aftertaste of Rhoda's final years. Kavner did do at least one CBS sitcom pilot that I know of in the 1980s ("A Fine Romance") but it wasn't picked up. http://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/20/ar...e-romance.html

08-24-2018, 05:56 PM	#10
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,161	What happened with the ratings backs up what you're saying--season 2 #7, season 3 #32. It was probably one of the most boneheaded moves in TV history.