You'll Probably Hate Me for Saying This

[scut farkas]

HH portrays those prison camps as wonderful, funny places where comical German guards and their lovable commandant had endless fun with Hogan and the guys.........but did you know that many Allied fliers were systematically starved, exposed to incredibly inhumane conditions, and, not uncommonly, shot to death in the prison camps (stalags)?

I just cannot imagine a greater insult to the brave airmen of WW2 who endured such brutality. Maybe someone will come up with a comedy show about Auschwitz or Treblinka. Those places were run by the same funny guys, you know.

[TJL]

You are right, "Hogans Heroes" was in a way a great insult to the heroes of WW2.
That show will go down in TV history as the textbook example of "touchy subjects made into sitcoms."
Comedian Gilbert Gottfried had a great bit about "Hogans Heroes." To paraphrase...
"Wouldn't you have loved to be at that network meeting? I have a great idea for a show...It's set in a prison camp, it's got Nazis. It's a comedy!!! How can it miss?"

I have to admit, I have watched the reruns over the years, but I always felt that this show really shouldn't have been made.

[dawsongirl]

I see your points, really I do, but this show was a farce, a spoof, a satire, whatever you want to call it. It took a lighthearted look at something real. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously at all- just as a comedy. It was not meant to insult anyone or anything.

Seriously, if it had been that horendous, it would not have lasted 6 years.

[Mysty Eyes]

Originally posted by dawsongirl
I see your points, really I do, but this show was a farce, a spoof, a satire, whatever you want to call it.

In addition to that, the show made fun of the Nazi regime. It depicted a Nazi ego that overshadowed intelligence. The Allied forces always got the best of the Nazis. The Allies were the ultimate victors... every time.

It also showed that not all German soldiers were in the war by choice. Do you really think that Schulz wanted to be there? Or Klink for that matter? It also showed that many civilians worked against the Nazis.

[Mysty Eyes]

More information...

This got me to thinking, and I thought that I had recalled hearing something pertinent about this topic.

I just checked Robert Clary's website. You know... Lebeau.

http://robertclary.com/book.html

On this site is a section on is book, FROM THE HOLOCAUST TO HOGAN'S HEROES.

Yes, he was a prisoner during WWII.


In the review by Army Archerd:

It is his story -- he was the 16-year-old who wrote the first letter when on his way to the first of the Nazi death camps that he miraculously survived.

Clary had meanwhile made a career for himself in the U.S. and in Hollywood as a co-star of the hit comedy series "Hogan's Heroes." Clary says he was able to be a part of this setting because its Nazis were buffoons. "Every week we made fools of our captors."


I think that I may have to read this book.

[Janice]

Originally posted by scut farkas
HH portrays those prison camps as wonderful, funny places where comical German guards and their lovable commandant had endless fun with Hogan and the guys.........but did you know that many Allied fliers were systematically starved, exposed to incredibly inhumane conditions, and, not uncommonly, shot to death in the prison camps (stalags)?

I just cannot imagine a greater insult to the brave airmen of WW2 who endured such brutality. Maybe someone will come up with a comedy show about Auschwitz or Treblinka. Those places were run by the same funny guys, you know.

I agree with you. Both my father and father-in-law were WWII Veterans, and both men found the concept to be in poor taste and refused to watch the show.
It doesn't matter to me if an actor wrote a book, even if he was a war prisoner himself. It doesn't change my feelings that the show's premise was a slap in the face to all of the men and women who served in our nation's wars.

[dawsongirl]

Originally posted by Mysty Eyes
In addition to that, the show made fun of the Nazi regime. It depicted a Nazi ego that overshadowed intelligence. The Allied forces always got the best of the Nazis. The Allies were the ultimate victors... every time.

I'm with you. I mean, Werner Klemperer wouldn't even do the show unless the Nazi's looked like fools in every episode, and as we all know, they did.

[Tiger32]

I agree that being a WWII POW was no picnic, and the Germans were not idiots either. But I think the creator of the show intended to pay tribute to WWII POWs, while at the same time adding entertainment for the viewers. This light hearted approach proved to be very successful.

I think if the show were to provide an accurate depiction of war, then there probably would not be very many viewers, because people do not want to be depressed each day with the actual accounts of the War.


MASH made it appear that the Korean War was fun and games, when it obviously wasn't, but it also made us remember those who risked their lives for Demacracy.

[dawsongirl]

Originally posted by Tiger32
MASH made it appear that the Korean War was fun and games, when it obviously wasn't, but it also made us remember those who risked their lives for Demacracy.

Good point. Granted MASH wasn't about POWs, but it was still more light-hearted than it could have been.

[TJL]

M*A*S*H was more comedic in the first few seasons, but the silliness and carousing almost disappeared, and the show became very anit-war as they went into the later years.

[Janice]

Coming in at Number 5 is....


TV Guide names "Jerry Springer" worst show of all

By Steve Gorman

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - There must be something about the name Jerry.

Nearly three months after naming Jerry Seinfeld's smash hit sitcom "Seinfeld" as the greatest television show of all time, the editors of TV Guide have come out with a new list ranking "The Jerry Springer Show" as the worst.

The syndicated "trash TV" show that capitalizes on the cheating, sleazy, sordid behavior of its guests topped TV Guide's roster of the 50 least redeeming programs ever to make it on the airwaves.

The list ranges from such successful guilty pleasures as "Baywatch" (No. 21) and the notorious Fox special "Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire?" (No. 25) to short-lived forgotten flops like NBC's 1985 blip "Hell Town" (No. 38), featuring former "Baretta" star and future murder suspect Robert Blake.

Some choices, such as the World War Two POW comedy "Hogan's Heroes" (No. 5) and Sally Field's popular sitcom "The Flying Nun" (No. 42) may offend the nostalgic sensibilities of older viewers who fondly remember those shows.

Others would find it difficult to find a defender among anyone in the older-than-4 crowd -- case in point, the numbingly inane kid's show "Barney & Friends" (No. 50).

Unlike the best-of list released in April, the roster of worst stinkers was nearly devoid of shows from TV's golden age. One made the list as a result of infamy -- NBC's "Twenty-One" (No. 13), which sparked the 1950s quiz show scandal.

But the worst of the worst, according to TV Guide, was "Springer," which premiered in 1991 and became the top-rated talk show in syndication at the height of its run while instigating regular fistfights between guests.

"Awful television shows are a storied part of our society," said TV Guide editor-in-chief Steven Reddicliffe. "And no one has turned guilty-pleasure TV into more of an art form than Jerry Springer."

The executive producer of "Springer," Richard Dominick, took the dubious honor in the spirit with which it was intended. "After 12 years of broadcasting, and having never been recognized by the academy, we are thrilled to accept this prestigious award from TV Guide. And I'd like to thank my mother," he said in a statement.

Coming in at No. 2 was "My Mother the Car," a 1960s sitcom starring Jerry Van Dyke as a man whose mom is reincarnated as an old-time automobile, voiced by Ann Sothern, followed at No. 3 by the "XFL," the failed attempt by pro-wrestling mogul Vince McMahon to reinvent football in his own image.

Rounding out the worst five were "The Brady Bunch Hour," ABC's 1977 misguided bid to bring back the sitcom family as a variety show, and "Hogan's Heroes," starring Bob Crane as an American POW outsmarting his Nazi captors (TV Guide apparently found the hit show to be politically incorrect in retrospect).

"Jerry Springer" was one of just five among the 50 worst that are still on the air. The other four are Fox's "Celebrity Boxing" (No. 6), the CBS talking-infant sitcom "Baby Bob" (No. 14), E! network's ribald "Howard Stern" (No. 29) and "Barney."

The following is the complete list:

1. The Jerry Springer Show (syndicated, 1991-present)

2. My Mother The Car (NBC, 1965-66)

3. XFL (NBC, UPN and TNN, 2001)

4. The Brady Bunch Hour (ABC, 1977)

5. Hogan's Heroes (CBS, 1965-71)

6. Celebrity Boxing (Fox, 2002-present)

7. AfterMASH (CBS, 1983-84)

8. Cop Rock (ABC, 1990)

9. You're in the Picture (CBS, 1961)

10. Hee Haw Honeys (syndicated, 1978-79)

11. The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeiffer (UPN, 1998)

12. Hello Larry (NBC, 1979-80)

13. Twenty-One (NBC, 1956-58)

14. Baby Bob (CBS, 2002-present)

15. Manimal (NBC, 1983)

16. The Chevy Chase Show (Fox, 1993)

17. Casablanca (NBC, 1983)

18. The Ugliest Girl in Town (ABC, 1968-69)

19. The P.T.L. Club (syndicated, 1976-87)

20. The Pruitts of Southampton (ABC, 1966-67)

21. Baywatch (NBC and syndicated, 1989-2001)

22. The Powers of Matthew Star (NBC, 1982-83)

23. Sammy and Company (syndicated, 1975-77)

24. One of the Boys (NBC, 1982)

25. Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire? (Fox, 2000)

26. Life with Lucy (ABC, 1986)

27. Turn-On (ABC, 1969)

28. Supertrain (NBC, 1979)

29. Howard Stern (E!, 1994-present)

30. Unhappily Ever After (WB, 1995-99)

31. Homeboys in Outer Space (UPN, 1996-97)

32. Co-Ed Fever (CBS, 1979)

33. Holmes & Yoyo (ABC, 1976)

34. Alexander the Great (ABC, 1968)

35. Pink Lady...and Jeff (NBC, 1980)

36. The Misadventures of Sheriff Lobo (NBC, 1979-81)

37. Saturday Night Live with Howard Cosell (ABC, 1975-76)

38. Hell Town (NBC, 1985)

39. Still the Beaver (Disney Channel, 1985-86)

40. Makin' It (ABC, 1979)

41. The Tom Green Show (MTV, 1999-2000)

42. The Flying Nun (ABC, 1967-70)

43. Woops! (Fox, 1992)

44. She's the Sheriff (syndicated, 1987-89)

45. A.K.A. Pablo (ABC, 1984)

46. Me and the Chimp (CBS, 1972)

47. Rango (ABC, 1967)

48. Bless this House (CBS, 1995-96)

49. The Ropers (ABC, 1979-80)

50. Barney & Friends (PBS, 1992-present)

Reuters/Variety



07/12/02 21:51 ET
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[GoldenFamilyTies]

Originally posted by JanLady617
Coming in at Number 5 is....

Let me guess... Hogan's Heroes?

[Marvo301]

Several cast members of Hogans Heroes were europeans who fled their homelands to escape the nazis and/or were prisoners of the nazis.(Werner Klemperer-Germany, John Banner-Austria, Robert Clary-France) If they didn't find this very funny farce offensive why should we?

[dawsongirl]

Originally posted by Marvo301
Several cast members of Hogans Heroes were europeans who fled their homelands to escape the nazis and/or were prisoners of the nazis.(Werner Klemperer-Germany, John Banner-Austria, Robert Clary-France) If they didn't find this very funny farce offensive why should we?

Game...Set...and Match!

Good point.

As a side note, just 'cause I know this, Richard Dawson, who was living on the southern coast of England (very close to occupied France) at the time, got sent up north to live with friends (or relatives, I can't remember), thus being forced to live away from his family at a very young age.

I'm sure the war effected most people involved in this show in a negative way.

[ABlairican Pie]

Hogan's Heroes was based upon "Stalag 17", a movie directed by Otto Preminger, which had funny moments as well as drama. I don't think it was meant to degrade the victims of the POW camps or the Holocaust--Werner Klemperer and John Banner were
actually Jewish--John Banner lost his family in concentration camps. Maybe this was his way to make peace with his past by playing a bumbling Nazi sargeant. I think the reason for the show was to capitalize on the spy trend going on in t.v.--which was one of the good things about the show. I enjoyed that part very much.