Brushy Bill Roberts

[macbeth06]

Your thoughts was he Billy the kid.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

If he wasn't Billy the Kid, he certainly knew an awful lot about the situation. Enough to fool many people, including myself.

I have no idea if he was actually *the* Billy the Kid, but I like to think it to be true.

[asmitty]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

If he wasn't Billy the Kid, he certainly knew an awful lot about the situation. Enough to fool many people, including myself.

I have no idea if he was actually *the* Billy the Kid, but I like to think it to be true.

His case is more plausible than some other stories of its kind. For example, the segment UM did on the possible survival of Butch Cassidy was very implausible and unlikely, IMO.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by asmitty

His case is more plausible than some other stories of its kind. For example, the segment UM did on the possible survival of Butch Cassidy was very implausible and unlikely, IMO.

Totally agree with you there.

[macbeth06]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

Totally agree with you there.

But lawman back then would do anything for money so I really think it was Billy the kid and they killed the wrong man and put his body in the grave for the kid . Or Billy the kid gave him the money. Billy the kid was very smart.

[soilentgreen]

This is one of the more objective sites that provides information that both detracts and supports Brushy Bill being Billy the Kid: http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/brushy.html Here's another that lays the case against Brushy Bill's claim: http://www.aboutbillythekid.com/billy_vs_brushy.htm

My own take is that Brushy/Oliver Roberts was as credible as Anna Anderson, but that he romanticized Billy the Kid. Eyewitnesses at the death scene who didn't like Garrett, such as Deluvina Maxwell, said Billy had been killed and never claimed otherwise. The rumors of his survival were second and third hand accounts and if Billy was alive, his hiding out for the next six decades was completely out of character for him.

Brushy's own sister didn't believe that he was Billy the Kid, and his niece stated that he was born in 1879. He claimed he had been born William Henry Roberts in 1859 in Texas, a direct contradiction to Billy the Kid's known background as the son of Catherine McCarty and a possible birth date of 1860-1862. While he knew some information that wasn't widely publicized at the time, he also had major discrepancies in his statements.

[macbeth06]

To be honest for interesting read I honestly think pat garret was a lier and it was not Billy the kid he killed.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by soilentgreen

My own take is that Brushy/Oliver Roberts was as credible as Anna Anderson, but that he romanticized Billy the Kid. Eyewitnesses at the death scene who didn't like Garrett, such as Deluvina Maxwell, said Billy had been killed and never claimed otherwise. The rumors of his survival were second and third hand accounts and if Billy was alive, his hiding out for the next six decades was completely out of character for him.

What about others, like Severo Gallegos (the boy who cut the chains off of Billy the Kid when he killed Deputies Bell and Ollinger to escape the Lincoln County Courthouse) who said that Brushy was Billy the Kid? Or Jimmy McDaniels? Or Yginio Salazar (fellow regulator and friend of Billy) who said that Billy wrote him a letter detailing his escape on July 14th? Or George Coe? I think there's simply too much information regarding Billy the Kid for Brushy Bill to have picked up and read and memorized for him to be some phony who was born 2 years before Billy the Kid was killed. If Brushy was not Billy, I subscribe to the theory that he was another less famous participant in the Lincoln County War who knew him, and for reasons unknown (most likely fame), he claimed to be him. Marion Turner was a man who fought on the Murphy/Dolan side in the Lincoln County War, who seemed to disappear from history after the war was over. There's also a picture in one of the books about Brushy which some men have identified as Marion Turner (others say it was Billy), but it looks identical to a young Brushy Bill.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I subscribe to the theory that he was another less famous participant in the Lincoln County War who knew him, and for reasons unknown (most likely fame), he claimed to be him. Marion Turner was a man who fought on the Murphy/Dolan side in the Lincoln County War, who seemed to disappear from history after the war was over. There's also a picture in one of the books about Brushy which some men have identified as Marion Turner (others say it was Billy), but it looks identical to a young Brushy Bill.

THIS is what I was trying to say earlier, but did not. Thanks for being so articulate, Cars!

I didn't know the additional information about Marion Turner. Fascinating!

[macbeth06]

I think pat garret was in cahoots with Billy the kid cause he wanted the money and they shared it or get got all of it.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

THIS is what I was trying to say earlier, but did not. Thanks for being so articulate, Cars!

I didn't know the additional information about Marion Turner. Fascinating!

The only hole in this theory is the fact that Roberts came forward seeking a pardon for Billy the Kid. It wouldn't make sense for him to do something like that if he were in fact Marion Turner, because they fought on opposite sides during the Lincoln County War. Plus, Turner had little to no contact with Billy the Kid after the war was over, so I don't know how he would've been able to remember things about him post-1879.

[macbeth06]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

The only hole in this theory is the fact that Roberts came forward seeking a pardon for Billy the Kid. It wouldn't make sense for him to do something like that if he were in fact Marion Turner, because they fought on opposite sides during the Lincoln County War. Plus, Turner had little to no contact with Billy the Kid after the war was over, so I don't know how he would've been able to remember things about him post-1879.

This very excellent post.

[LakeForestPI]

Originally Posted by macbeth06

This very excellent post.

This case and the speculation on it are absolutely absurd. This is just another ridiculous story from the old west. When UM did these tales and others like them I turned off. But I have found a new hero in Macbeth. Dude, you're special. Keep on keeping on

[TheCars1986]

I have never told this story before because I never thought people would believe me, but this was my encounter with "the unexplained":

When I was 15 my family and I took a vacation to Texas and we visited Hico (the town where Brushy Bill Roberts last lived in and died). I was in charge of the camcorder that day and I was filming a bug on the ground (I was weird, well, I still am) that was a species you don't see on the east coast, and my parents and younger brother were walking ahead of me. They went into a blacksmith shop, again something you don't see on the east coast, and I was behind filming this bug. I started to walk towards the blacksmith shop and saw an older man walking towards me wearing a bucksin jacket with a cowboy hat...which was not that uncommon for the area. I didn't think anything of it until I realized the man looked a lot like the re-enactment actor from the UM segment. I did a mental double take and looked behind me to see no one. There was a laundromat directly behind me, so I poked my head in and saw nothing. I put it out of my head. Then at an antique store (in the town where Brushy Bill was buried, roughly 25 minutes away from Hico) they had a book about hauntings in the area and there was a blurb about people who have claimed to see Brushy Bill walking around the main street in Hico (same place where the Brushy/Billy the Kid museum was located) who claimed to have seen Brushy. Granted, this was 16 years ago, but this building with the light blue awnings was the laundromat, and the building to the north with the Coca-Cola sign contained the Blacksmith's shop. Granted, my memory is not 100%, but I know for a fact that I saw something that day, and it aligns with the fact that we stopped by the statue of Brushy (with the plaque featured on UM) which is right next to the Coca-Cola building.

[macbeth06]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I have never told this story before because I never thought people would believe me, but this was my encounter with "the unexplained":

When I was 15 my family and I took a vacation to Texas and we visited Hico (the town where Brushy Bill Roberts last lived in and died). I was in charge of the camcorder that day and I was filming a bug on the ground (I was weird, well, I still am) that was a species you don't see on the east coast, and my parents and younger brother were walking ahead of me. They went into a blacksmith shop, again something you don't see on the east coast, and I was behind filming this bug. I started to walk towards the blacksmith shop and saw an older man walking towards me wearing a bucksin jacket with a cowboy hat...which was not that uncommon for the area. I didn't think anything of it until I realized the man looked a lot like the re-enactment actor from the UM segment. I did a mental double take and looked behind me to see no one. There was a laundromat directly behind me, so I poked my head in and saw nothing. I put it out of my head. Then at an antique store (in the town where Brushy Bill was buried, roughly 25 minutes away from Hico) they had a book about hauntings in the area and there was a blurb about people who have claimed to see Brushy Bill walking around the main street in Hico (same place where the Brushy/Billy the Kid museum was located) who claimed to have seen Brushy. Granted, this was 16 years ago, but this building with the light blue awnings was the laundromat, and the building to the north with the Coca-Cola sign contained the Blacksmith's shop. Granted, my memory is not 100%, but I know for a fact that I saw something that day, and it aligns with the fact that we stopped by the statue of Brushy (with the plaque featured on UM) which is right next to the Coca-Cola building.

Amazing story maybe he had unfinished business.