Not that there's anything wrong with it: Was Cliff Clavin gay? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Heenan Fan · 11-10-2016, 12:38 PM

Talking about the character, not John Ratzenberger. I never thought he was, but some friends and I were having a conversation about Cheers. One of them couldn't remember Cliff's name and described him as "the gay guy, he wore a mailman's uniform". I told him Cliff wasn't gay, but then he and others explained why they thought the character was gay:

1. Many men from Cliff's era didn't even realize they were gay, or couldn't come to terms with it.

2. Cliff was a 40 year-old virgin living with and obsessed with his mother.

3. Cliff only had one girlfriend his entire life (Maggie), and never had sex with her even though he had a chance too. He didn't fight to keep her when she left him.

4. Despite his gift of gab, Cliff was extremely nervous and tounge-tied whenever he spoke to a woman (except Carla).

5. Cliff constantly bragged about his prowess with women, despite never being with one. A sign maybe?

There were probably more clues out there that they didn't think of? What do you think? Was he or wasn't he? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Anna Karenina · 11-10-2016, 01:19 PM

Remember Maggie reminded him in her last appearance that they were intimate at least one time. "You were wonderful!" Also they seemed to hook up in her first appearance when she she was forced to go to Canada after taking the postal vehicle for their tryst at a motel. He got his mail delivered if you know what I mean.

Best line of that episode was when Margaret worried about being cold in Canada with Cliff reminding her that she would be fine because "Women have that extra layer of fat."

The audience roared at that line, it was so out of nowhere...

Cliff wasn't gay as far as I know. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.)

Paul however seemed to be on the verge of coming out before Sam interrupted him in his quintessentially narcissistic way in the episode, "Is there a Doctor in the Howe?"

Heenan Fan · 11-29-2016, 05:39 PM

I didn't realize Cliff and Maggie actually did it?

Retro4Life · 11-29-2016, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heenan Fan

Talking about the character, not John Ratzenberger. I never thought he was, but some friends and I were having a conversation about Cheers. One of them couldn't remember Cliff's name and described him as "the gay guy, he wore a mailman's uniform". I told him Cliff wasn't gay, but then he and others explained why they thought the character was gay:

1. Many men from Cliff's era didn't even realize they were gay, or couldn't come to terms with it.

2. Cliff was a 40 year-old virgin living with and obsessed with his mother.

3. Cliff only had one girlfriend his entire life (Maggie), and never had sex with her even though he had a chance too. He didn't fight to keep her when she left him.

4. Despite his gift of gab, Cliff was extremely nervous and tounge-tied whenever he spoke to a woman (except Carla).

5. Cliff constantly bragged about his prowess with women, despite never being with one. A sign maybe?

There were probably more clues out there that they didn't think of? What do you think? Was he or wasn't he? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Nah. The old "if he lives with his mother he must be gay" is kind of a thing of the past now, with half of the country living with their mother because they can't afford rent!

My guess is that he was just a very shy, somewhat immature man who loved women but was afraid of them as well. There was nothing about his character that said "gay" to me. Just my thoughts.

Wawwie · 11-29-2016, 07:11 PM

Doubt Cliff was gay. It was revealed on Frasier that Cliff had an affair with Sam's female fiance (the sex addict.)

Prince Michael · 12-12-2016, 06:50 AM

If a man gets excited looking at another man, it's a good sign he's gay . How can somebody not realize he or she is gay ? "He's a forty -- year -- old virgin living with his mother ." is mighty judgemental . If you go to a strict enough church, it's easy to find several late -- in -- life virgins who believe premarital sex and homosexuality will send you to Hell . My church isn't that strict, but here are people like that in every denomination . If it's "okay" to be gay, it's "okay" to believe certain sexual behaviors are forbidden . Somebody once wrote to "Dear Abby" and explained that he was a thirty -- eight year old virgin who wanted to wait until he found a woman he could establish a premenent relationship with . Cliff "talked a good game", but he souldn't come through in reality . Like one person said, he was a very shy and immature man who loved women but was afraid of them as well . Cliff had sex a couple of times . Wasn't there an episode where Maggie was pregnant with his child ? She looked like she was eight months, two weeks, and ten days along . A lot of men fit the "has a different woman every night" stereotype, but not every man is like that . The writers never intended for Cliff to be gay . To decide that on the basis of your friends' evidence is jumping to conclusions . It doesn't make sense to call a character on a TV show "that gay guy" unless there was an episode every so often about him and his latest boyfriend .

Latka Gravas · 05-04-2019, 11:46 PM

Interesting thread & question. As someone who recently finished watching every episode of Cheers for the first time, I'm extremely familiar with the series & character at this point. And, I never got the impression that Cliff was anything other than heterosexual/straight.

He dates several times over the course of the series, primarily with Maggie (his girlfriend who moved to Canada, then moved back to Boston, then moved back to Canada). And, after he moved out of his childhood home & got his condo "bachelor pad", he is seen dating some other women (not Maggie) - and may have gotten lucky with at least one of them during that time.

In fact, it's evident that Cliff obviously wanted to be like Sam & sleep with a lot of different women, but due to his appearance?!, shyness, etc. was incapable of doing so.

Cliff had issues with women & was obviously a "mamma's boy" throughout the course of the series. Though, I was glad to see the episodes in S06 when his Mother moved to Florida & he got his own place for a while (though she moved back with him later on).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro4Life

Nah. The old "if he lives with his mother he must be gay" is kind of a thing of the past now, with half of the country living with their mother because they can't afford rent!

My guess is that he was just a very shy, somewhat immature man who loved women but was afraid of them as well. There was nothing about his character that said "gay" to me. Just my thoughts.

Agreed. There are quite a few adults these days who have to live @ home with their parents due to the high cost of living, etc. My understanding is that this is happening much more now than in the '80's/early '90's (when Cheers originally aired).

jpb28 · 05-05-2019, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna Karenina

Remember Maggie reminded him in her last appearance that they were intimate at least one time. "You were wonderful!" Also they seemed to hook up in her first appearance when she she was forced to go to Canada after taking the postal vehicle for their tryst at a motel. He got his mail delivered if you know what I mean.

Best line of that episode was when Margaret worried about being cold in Canada with Cliff reminding her that she would be fine because "Women have that extra layer of fat."

The audience roared at that line, it was so out of nowhere...

Cliff wasn't gay as far as I know. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.)

Paul however seemed to be on the verge of coming out before Sam interrupted him in his quintessentially narcissistic way in the episode, "Is there a Doctor in the Howe?"

Regarding Paul, that is totally inaccurate. Paul was married, but divorced. He slept with Carla and obviously enjoyed it. He also tried to blackmail Rebecca into sleeping with him and he was dating a really attractive women who was into obese men.

The scene you were talking about was more about Paul getting his life together since he is a 40+ yr old loser. He realizes it and wants to make a change and announce it, but Sam interrupts him.

Latka Gravas · 05-17-2019, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpb28

Regarding Paul, that is totally inaccurate. Paul was married, but divorced. He slept with Carla and obviously enjoyed it. He also tried to blackmail Rebecca into sleeping with him and he was dating a really attractive women who was into obese men.

The scene you were talking about was more about Paul getting his life together since he is a 40+ yr old loser. He realizes it and wants to make a change and announce it, but Sam interrupts him.

This is all 100% correct. Paul was similar to Norm & Cliff in some ways re: his spending the majority of his free time at the bar, etc. But, he was more successful with women than Cliff was - which isn't saying much - ha ha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Michael

Cliff had sex a couple of times . Wasn't there an episode where Maggie was pregnant with his child ? She looked like she was eight months, two weeks, and ten days along.

That wasn't Cliff's child, but a child Maggie was going to have with another man. That being said, I got the strong impression Cliff & Maggie slept with each other at least once or twice, given several things that were mentioned in the episodes with her.

CosmicCharlie · 08-21-2019, 09:24 PM

In a Frasier (the show) episode Sam shows up in Seattle and ... it turns out Cliff slept with Sam's current fiance (Sam met her in Sex Addicts Anonymous - Tea Leone ? IIRC) - as well as Fraser did to - back in the Cheers days

Kinda Fuzzy in my memory

Latka Gravas · 08-21-2019, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCharlie

In a Frasier (the show) episode Sam shows up in Seattle and ... it turns out Cliff slept with Sam's current fiance (Sam met her in Sex Addicts Anonymous - Tea Leone ? IIRC) - as well as Fraser did to - back in the Cheers days

Yes, this was in Frasier S02 - I just saw this episode recently, since I'm watching Frasier for the first time (on the DVD sets) - in chronological order. Specifically, what happened here was:

Sam Malone is in Seattle briefly, and decides to visit Frasier at the radio station - to tell him he's getting married. And, when Frasier meets Sam's fiance (Tea Leoni), he realizes he had a one-night stand with her on a recent visit to Boston - LOL. Eventually, Frasier confronts her (without Sam being there) & she admits to having slept with some others from Cheers, notably Paul & Cliff - hilarious!! Finally, Sam find out about the others she slept with from Cheers (but not Frasier) and breaks it off with her. At the end of the episode Frasier is driving Sam to the airport & Sam admits that her sleeping with Cliff was the deal-breaker - and the main reason for his breaking up with her - LOL.

Other funny notes about this episode: When Frasier first sees Sam, he asks him how the gang at the bar is doing. Sam mentions that Rebecca got dumped by her plumber boyfriend, so she keeps coming back to Cheers - even though she doesn't work there anymore - LOL. Also, Sam mentioned that Cliff stopped coming to Cheers for a while because he was worried about some kind of virus; and, fortunately for the bar - business at the bar started to pick up much more...presumably because customers were happy Cliff was gone - LOL.

11-10-2016, 12:38 PM	#1
Heenan Fan Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Oct 19, 2016 Posts: 6,001	Not that there's anything wrong with it: Was Cliff Clavin gay? Talking about the character, not John Ratzenberger. I never thought he was, but some friends and I were having a conversation about Cheers. One of them couldn't remember Cliff's name and described him as "the gay guy, he wore a mailman's uniform". I told him Cliff wasn't gay, but then he and others explained why they thought the character was gay: 1. Many men from Cliff's era didn't even realize they were gay, or couldn't come to terms with it. 2. Cliff was a 40 year-old virgin living with and obsessed with his mother. 3. Cliff only had one girlfriend his entire life (Maggie), and never had sex with her even though he had a chance too. He didn't fight to keep her when she left him. 4. Despite his gift of gab, Cliff was extremely nervous and tounge-tied whenever he spoke to a woman (except Carla). 5. Cliff constantly bragged about his prowess with women, despite never being with one. A sign maybe? There were probably more clues out there that they didn't think of? What do you think? Was he or wasn't he? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
	Last edited by Heenan Fan; 11-10-2016 at 03:06 PM.

12-12-2016, 06:50 AM	#6
Prince Michael Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 26, 2011 Location: Helena, Montana Posts: 296	If a man gets excited looking at another man, it's a good sign he's gay . How can somebody not realize he or she is gay ? "He's a forty -- year -- old virgin living with his mother ." is mighty judgemental . If you go to a strict enough church, it's easy to find several late -- in -- life virgins who believe premarital sex and homosexuality will send you to Hell . My church isn't that strict, but here are people like that in every denomination . If it's "okay" to be gay, it's "okay" to believe certain sexual behaviors are forbidden . Somebody once wrote to "Dear Abby" and explained that he was a thirty -- eight year old virgin who wanted to wait until he found a woman he could establish a premenent relationship with . Cliff "talked a good game", but he souldn't come through in reality . Like one person said, he was a very shy and immature man who loved women but was afraid of them as well . Cliff had sex a couple of times . Wasn't there an episode where Maggie was pregnant with his child ? She looked like she was eight months, two weeks, and ten days along . A lot of men fit the "has a different woman every night" stereotype, but not every man is like that . The writers never intended for Cliff to be gay . To decide that on the basis of your friends' evidence is jumping to conclusions . It doesn't make sense to call a character on a TV show "that gay guy" unless there was an episode every so often about him and his latest boyfriend .
	Last edited by Prince Michael; 12-12-2016 at 07:20 AM.

11-10-2016, 01:19 PM	#2
Anna Karenina Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Nov 09, 2006 Posts: 10,086	Remember Maggie reminded him in her last appearance that they were intimate at least one time. "You were wonderful!" Also they seemed to hook up in her first appearance when she she was forced to go to Canada after taking the postal vehicle for their tryst at a motel. He got his mail delivered if you know what I mean. Best line of that episode was when Margaret worried about being cold in Canada with Cliff reminding her that she would be fine because "Women have that extra layer of fat." The audience roared at that line, it was so out of nowhere... Cliff wasn't gay as far as I know. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.) Paul however seemed to be on the verge of coming out before Sam interrupted him in his quintessentially narcissistic way in the episode, "Is there a Doctor in the Howe?"

11-29-2016, 05:39 PM	#3
Heenan Fan Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Oct 19, 2016 Posts: 6,001	I didn't realize Cliff and Maggie actually did it?

11-29-2016, 07:11 PM	#5
Wawwie Member Forum Star Join Date: Jul 26, 2006 Location: New York Posts: 14,376	Doubt Cliff was gay. It was revealed on Frasier that Cliff had an affair with Sam's female fiance (the sex addict.)

08-21-2019, 09:24 PM	#10
CosmicCharlie Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 14, 2019 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,437	In a Frasier (the show) episode Sam shows up in Seattle and ... it turns out Cliff slept with Sam's current fiance (Sam met her in Sex Addicts Anonymous - Tea Leone ? IIRC) - as well as Fraser did to - back in the Cheers days Kinda Fuzzy in my memory