Lucy's Downfall: Her own vanity

[Hazel Anyday]

I'd say starting in the 3rd or maybe 4th season of the Lucy Show and continuing all the way thru the Here's Lucy series the show just wasn't funny anymore.

Plus Lucy's own glorified vanity fantasies of her "singing" and what she must have thought were great looking legs (even in her 60's) ruined both shows. Those dancing and singing "let's put on a show" types of programs the Lucy Show and Here's Lucy continuously did absolutely ruined the whole idea of a natural seeming Lucy situation comedy show.

It became a half baked broadway musical every other week. If you ever asked, where'd they get the money for all the endless amount of different costumes and the sets, well, you'd drive yourself crazy.

It's sad, too bad Lucy couldn't stick to what she did best, being funny in a more or less natural comical situation.

Seems Lucy thought of herself in her elderly years as a leggy sex symbol that everyone was dying to see sing and dance. It was the last thing I wanted from Lucy. Hearing that horrible croaking deep voice and the up to her ass costumes she would wear in her elderly years made me want to hurl.

[Hazel Anyday]

I still watch Lucy, in fact, I'm watching her Lucy Show once a week now, having just watched the whole ILL series all the way thru. So I still watch, just don't like those constant yelling & "hey it's showtime" programs she did thru her last years.

[Duster76]

I think a part of Lucy wanted to move from the sitcom format to a variety show. I think she was afraid her audience might reject her in a variety format so she never pulled the trigger (CBS may have had doubts as well). After Vance left, the show barely retained the properties of a sitcom. In the final three seasons the show seemed to evolve into a hybrid skitcom/variety product with many episodes cringeworthy (remember the Mel Torme and the small town or Carol Burnett stewardess episodes just to name two).

[Alex Cooper]

Originally Posted by Duster76

I think a part of Lucy wanted to move from the sitcom format to a variety show. I think she was afraid her audience might reject her in a variety format so she never pulled the trigger (CBS may have had doubts as well). After Vance left, the show barely retained the properties of a sitcom. In the final three seasons the show seemed to evolve into a hybrid skitcom/variety product with many episodes cringeworthy (remember the Mel Torme and the small town or Carol Burnett stewardess episodes just to name two).

I think it's the "Here's Lucy" Wikipedia page that mentions how Lucy's real-life broken leg forced the character to "mature" and the writers to come up with more character-driven plots...or, one could argue, that this situation brought her back to her roots. Lucy doing physical comedy based on a plausible situations was funny; Lucy doing physical comedy or song and dance just 'cause that's what they figured the audience wanted was usually, eh! She was a good actress and comedienne who didn't necessarily need the schtick to carry a show, but the opinion at the time seemed to be that she did.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Hazel Anyday

I'd say starting in the 3rd or maybe 4th season of the Lucy Show and continuing all the way thru the Here's Lucy series the show just wasn't funny anymore.

Plus Lucy's own glorified vanity fantasies of her "singing" and what she must have thought were great looking legs (even in her 60's) ruined both shows. Those dancing and singing "let's put on a show" types of programs the Lucy Show and Here's Lucy continuously did absolutely ruined the whole idea of a natural seeming Lucy situation comedy show.

It became a half baked broadway musical every other week. If you ever asked, where'd they get the money for all the endless amount of different costumes and the sets, well, you'd drive yourself crazy.

It's sad, too bad Lucy couldn't stick to what she did best, being funny in a more or less natural comical situation.

Seems Lucy thought of herself in her elderly years as a leggy sex symbol that everyone was dying to see sing and dance. It was the last thing I wanted from Lucy. Hearing that horrible croaking deep voice and the up to her ass costumes she would wear in her elderly years made me want to hurl.

I'm in general agreement with what you're saying here, but you're exaggerating. I also don't like those musical episodes, but they weren't "every other week." They did two, three or maybe four each season. Then after the third season of Here's Lucy, with only a couple exceptions, they ended them completely: there were no musicals in S4 (other than Dinah Shore singing a couple tunes in one episode, and a quick dance with Ginger Rogers), only one in S5 (the Ruth Buzzi episode), and one in S6 (Eddie Albert episode), which was only a one-song segment at the end of the episode, not a full-blown musical. And as for the "horrible croaking deep voice," with only a few exceptions that was NOT her voice in the musical episodes. She almost always had her voice dubbed, usually by Carole Cook. In fact, she wanted her voice dubbed in Mame, but Warner Bros. wouldn't allow it, feeling that movie audiences were "too sophisticated" to accept dubbing. I was told by someone who knew her that she said she greatly dreaded those recording sessions for Mame and would lock herself in her dressing room, not wanting to come out. Lucille Ball could sing okay earlier on (as she did on Broadway in Wildcat and The Long, Long Trailer), but she was VERY well aware that she couldn't sing in later years, as evident in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_jb5kcne0

[Anna Karenina]

I wonder if its true that Gary told her not to do The Manchurian Candidate.

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/12...turned-it-down

That could have been her Oscar and it should have been Angela Lansbury's.

[ILuvCarolBurnett]

Originally Posted by Anna Karenina

I wonder if its true that Gary told her not to do The Manchurian Candidate.

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/12...turned-it-down

That could have been her Oscar and it should have been Angela Lansbury's.

Lucy loved Gary Morton .... and really, no one could understand it. The guy was the original hapless moron who skated through the later half of his life riding on Lucy's coattails. He was utterly clueless about show business, but Lucy did everything in her power to give him every opportunity. There are those that believe he caused Desilu some serious financial woes between 1964 - 67 that ultimately led to Lucy selling the studio. Some stupid decisions that cost Desilu a lot. In some ways, Lucy wanted Gary to be Desi, but that, he was absolutely not.

[Anna Karenina]

Originally Posted by ILuvCarolBurnett

Lucy loved Gary Morton .... and really, no one could understand it. The guy was the original hapless moron who skated through the later half of his life riding on Lucy's coattails. He was utterly clueless about show business, but Lucy did everything in her power to give him every opportunity. There are those that believe he caused Desilu some serious financial woes between 1964 - 67 that ultimately led to Lucy selling the studio. Some stupid decisions that cost Desilu a lot. In some ways, Lucy wanted Gary to be Desi, but that, he was absolutely not.

Desi was a visionary who created her empire but he also was emotionally cruel to her with his endless womanizing. It must have broken her heart and hardened her as a person.

To my knowledge Gary despite his business failings was devoted and faithful to her and was a good stepfather to the children. He should have talked her out of "Life with Lucy" though...

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Anna Karenina

I wonder if its true that Gary told her not to do The Manchurian Candidate.

That could have been her Oscar and it should have been Angela Lansbury's.

Gary Morton supposedly also (as her manager) declined her opportunity to star in "Driving Miss Daisy,"which garnered an Oscar for Jessica Tandy.

Originally Posted by ILuvCarolBurnett

There are those that believe he caused Desilu some serious financial woes between 1964 - 67 that ultimately led to Lucy selling the studio. Some stupid decisions that cost Desilu a lot. In some ways, Lucy wanted Gary to be Desi, but that, he was absolutely not.

Financial woes between 1964 and 1967? The company was getting back up on its feet by then. In 1962, Desi Arnaz was essentially forced by stockholders to cede his control of the company to his ex-wife because the company had begun struggling under his leadership. He had built up the company in the '50s, but by 1960 his drinking was taking a toll on his ability to run the company. For several years it had failed to get any new hits shows on the air. Under Lucy's tenure, the ship was righted and she got several hit shows going: Star Trek, Mission: Impossible, Mannix, and her own series. Lucy hated running the company and was eager for the opportunity to unload it so that she could just be an actress again. By 1967 with these hit shows up and running, she seized the opportunity and sold the company and got a huge payday for herself and the other stockholders. With that sale, completed in 1968, she became incredibly wealthy.

[Anna Karenina]

Originally Posted by LittleRickyII

Gary Morton supposedly also (as her manager) declined her opportunity to star in "Driving Miss Daisy,"which garnered an Oscar for Jessica Tandy.



Financial woes between 1964 and 1967? The company was getting back up on its feet by then. In 1962, Desi Arnaz was essentially forced by stockholders to cede his control of the company to his ex-wife because the company had begun struggling under his leadership. He had built up the company in the '50s, but by 1960 his drinking was taking a toll on his ability to run the company. For several years it had failed to get any new hits shows on the air. Under Lucy's tenure, the ship was righted and she got several hit shows going: Star Trek, Mission: Impossible, Mannix, and her own series. Lucy hated running the company and was eager for the opportunity to unload it so that she could just be an actress again. By 1967 with these hit shows up and running, she seized the opportunity and sold the company and got a huge payday for herself and the other stockholders. With that sale, completed in 1968, she became incredibly wealthy.

Interesting. Good for her!

I hear she also lived fairly modestly despite her great wealth.

[gidgetgrape]

I wouldn't classify Lucille Ball as being vain ever. A vain actress would have hidden herself away after she hit middle age so the public would always remember her as a young woman without a line or wrinkle. Sure, Lucille did things to emphasize her youth and show off her best features, but that's just a part of being in the public eye and being a woman. Lucille Ball's biggest sin is that she always wanted to work and she did whatever she thought would keep her working.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Anna Karenina

Interesting. Good for her!

I hear she also lived fairly modestly despite her great wealth.

This is true. Some would call her cheap. I remember reading that, at Lucie Arnaz's first wedding, the food at the reception was served on paper plates. At the time of her death in 1989, she still had shag carpet in her house from the early 70s and was still using a rotary telephone. Either she was too slow to change, or too cheap to update her home.

Originally Posted by gidgetgrape

Lucille Ball's biggest sin is that she always wanted to work and she did whatever she thought would keep her working.

I think work is how she dealt with (or avoided dealing with) her emotional issues. She never got over her divorce from Desi and by constantly working she was able to keep her mind occupied so she wouldn't have to think too much about personal disappointments. She probably would have benefited from psychotherapy to work out her issues, but instead she used work as a substitute. So she was really just pushing these issues aside rather than confronting them head on. I think if she had dealt with these things in a healthy way (therapy), she would have retired from series television earlier on and focused on just doing an occasional quality special or movie, and her later legacy might have been even greater.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by gidgetgrape

A vain actress would have hidden herself away after she hit middle age so the public would always remember her as a young woman without a line or wrinkle.

I'm not sure I would call her vain, either. She did fix herself up for public appearances, with that skin pulling contraption under her wig; however, she never had plastic surgery. And in private, she tended to be very laid back and did not wear makeup. So in public, it was important to her to look her best, but in private she didn't seem to care how she looked. I'm not sure it's vanity when you're very concerned about your appearance in public "showbiz" settings, but otherwise completely unconcerned about your appearance the rest of the time.

[caladon]

I don't know how accurate the article was, but I remember reading that after her appearance in Stone Pillow, that Lucy didn't want her fan's last on screen image of her to be the character of Florabelle, so she decided to do Life With Lucy in order to have her last project be a comedy and retire on a high note. I don't know why she would think that. I was very impressed with her performance in Stone Pillow, it took her out of her usual comedy comfort zone and she did very well.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by caladon

I don't know how accurate the article was, but I remember reading that after her appearance in Stone Pillow, that Lucy didn't want her fan's last on screen image of her to be the character of Florabelle, so she decided to do Life With Lucy in order to have her last project be a comedy and retire on a high note. I don't know why she would think that. I was very impressed with her performance in Stone Pillow, it took her out of her usual comedy comfort zone and she did very well.

I've heard the same thing, and I also agree with you. At that age, and with the change in her voice, she couldn't pull off that naive comic character anymore. I believe she was better suited at that point for dramatic roles, and I thought she gave a wonderful performance in Stone Pillow and could have gone out on a high note if she had continued pursuing those types of projects. Her husband supposedly turned down the opportunity for her to star in Driving Miss Daisy. I don't know WHAT he was thinking.