Sumter County Unidentified Couple - 40 years this week - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

johnnyangel · 08-27-2016, 12:09 PM

I am sure this topic exists somewhere else on these forums, I may have even posted one myself some time ago.

I believe it was 40 years ago this week (I believe end of August 1976) that these two souls were murdered and have never been identified despite tons of photos, evidence, and even clues.

** Police believe they are "pretty sure" who the killer was in fact and have the gun, but he himself died in the early 80's. They also believe "the killer" didn't know who his victims were as it appeared random.

The guy victim is probably named 'Jacques' with the nickname of Jean or Jock. Initials on his ring had the J.P. initials. Some theorize his name was either Jacques-Pierre or Jean Pierre.

Most recent DNA tests proved they were NOT brother and sister. Probably bf and gf from the same area.

Case has always been of huge interest to me. Anybody else enthralled by this case or want to post any recent information or just opinions?

Finally, there is always hope. After 21 years, the Grateful Dead fan was finally identified and his remains returned to his family.

crystaldawn · 08-27-2016, 03:49 PM

Yes this case has always been very interesting to me. I'm sure they have the couples dna sample on hand by now so I'm surprised they haven't been matched up with any missing persons cases in the US. Perhaps they are not from US as speculated. The fact that the unidentified grateful dead fan was identified recently gives me hope it could be solved one day.

1990 UM fan · 08-27-2016, 10:24 PM

I read on another website that both Does resemble missing Washington couple Michael and Cordelia McMinn. I don't know if I can post the photos, since it shows the victims on the coroner's table, but here's a link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...-1976-6/page25

WishfulDreamer · 08-27-2016, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

I read on another website that both Does resemble missing Washington couple Michael and Cordelia McMinn. I don't know if I can post the photos, since it shows the victims on the coroner's table, but here's a link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...-1976-6/page25

I appreciate you not posting the photos, as many of us who lurk on here don't wish to see that kind of content. Thank you for the link to the thread instead.
I found out the hard way that the Wikipedia for the couple has their postmortem photos.

I hope that this couple is identified someday. It's really a shame that it's been four decades now without resolution--and that the killer has never been caught.

johnnyangel · 08-28-2016, 11:33 AM

I have read up on the McMinns's but although there seem to be some interesting similarities and the McMinn's went missing about the same time - I believe their family says there are other discrepencies and were even open to providing DNA samples.

The Sumter County couple also appeared to be from the Canada area or French Canadian...

johnnyangel · 08-28-2016, 11:35 AM

I put together a package and sent it to Kim Russo (Psychic Medium) who always says she is good with 'finding names'.

She gave me an address to send it to but it was returned by the news station without even being opened...which means they didn't want to even look at it and it didn't even make her desk...

They only seem to want to make money by doing stories on celebrities...

johnnyangel · 08-28-2016, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

I hope that this couple is identified someday. It's really a shame that it's been four decades now without resolution--and that the killer has never been caught.

Police believe they know/knew who the killer was and have the weapon, but the "probably killer" died in the early 1980's. So at this point, its not about trying to prosecute anybody.

soilentgreen · 08-28-2016, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyangel

The Sumter County couple also appeared to be from the Canada area or French Canadian...

I believe that they were Quebecois, and were possibly estranged from their families (as Jacques/Jock told the campground employee). At this point, autosomal dna testing might be the best chance to help establish their identities.

Drakken · 08-28-2016, 06:37 PM

I am starting to wonder if I should contact the Sureté du Québec whether the Sumter County Does might match one of their missing people cases from the 70s.

From what I know, they do not fit any cases currently made public here in Quebec.

LooksLikeCRicci · 08-29-2016, 12:37 PM

Ugh! I cannot believe this one has not been solved already. They were both very attractive and seemingly well-off. Someone has to be missing them.

I was so grateful (no pun intended) that there was finally closure on the Jason Grateful Doe case. I'm hoping for the same resolution here. I'd love to know why this young couple was murdered.

OT: Am I the only one who never thought they were brother and sister? I don't know why that is, but even when this case was originally profiled, I didn't think they would end up being related.

WishfulDreamer · 08-29-2016, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

OT: Am I the only one who never thought they were brother and sister? I don't know why that is, but even when this case was originally profiled, I didn't think they would end up being related.

I felt like this from the beginning. I never thought they were related, and I assumed they were more than likely a couple.

MegtheEgg86 · 08-29-2016, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

OT: Am I the only one who never thought they were brother and sister? I don't know why that is, but even when this case was originally profiled, I didn't think they would end up being related.

I thought it was an interesting theory, but I was never really sold on it either myself.

unsolved88 · 08-30-2016, 12:41 PM

I've gone back and forth on this theory on Websleuths, but could they be victims of Argentina's Dirty War? They seem to bear an striking resemblance to Cesar Lugones and his wife Maria Marta Vazquez Lugones who were abducted on May 14, 1976.

This Websleuths post explains how Cesar and Maria could have ended up in the U.S., although how they ended up in such a small rural town in South Carolina is anyone's guess.

The detractors of this theory point out that Maria was supposedly about two months pregnant when she went missing and the Jane Doe had never been pregnant at all. However, if Maria was in fact tortured and detained before she ended up murdered with her husband in South Carolina a few months afterward, she might very well have miscarried. Or the pregnancy could have simply been a rumor.

Both look very similar to the Does (especially Maria), and for those of you who wish to look at some of the postmortem pics, there's one of John Doe where he appears to have a mark on his nose from wearing glasses, which would make sense if he is indeed Cesar.

One question about this theory nags at me. Would Cesar and Maria have fluent enough in English to "get by" for a little while in America? If they were the same couple that the KOA campground worker spoke to, would Cesar have known English well enough to quickly concoct the story about being from Canada and his father disowning him?

I really wish UM had done a full segment on this case.

johnnyangel · 08-30-2016, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

Ugh! I cannot believe this one has not been solved already. They were both very attractive and seemingly well-off. Someone has to be missing them.

I was so grateful (no pun intended) that there was finally closure on the Jason Grateful Doe case. I'm hoping for the same resolution here. I'd love to know why this young couple was murdered.

I think what helped solve the Grateful Doe case is that it almost took on a cult following over the years, so it was "kept alive" moreso than the Sumter County couple has been. The Grateful Doe page had FB and even Myspace pages and tons of people seem to take interest, which was a small puzzle piece in the case eventually being solved.

Also, at this point - we have to assume if there are any relatives left of the Sumter County couple - they would probably be siblings or friends of them. Seeing as they would be somewhere in their 60's today (20's when they died), their parents may not be alive any longer as they would be estimated to be in their 80's to 90s.

johnnyangel · 08-30-2016, 01:44 PM

[QUOTE=LooksLikeCRicci]

I was so grateful (no pun intended) that there was finally closure on the Jason Grateful Doe case. I'm hoping for the same resolution here. I'd love to know why this young couple was murdered.

/QUOTE]

We may never know the full reason, but I think I read various places that it was probably just random. The killer would really have no way to know who they were or why they were walking down the road when they were. The killer may or may not have taken their wallets or ids (if he did, it was probably just simple robbery), but he had no way of knowing (or caring) that the people would never be identified 40 years later.

Again, police believe they know who the killer was, but he himself died in the early 80s.

08-27-2016, 12:09 PM	#1
johnnyangel Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 08, 2002 Posts: 329	Sumter County Unidentified Couple - 40 years this week I am sure this topic exists somewhere else on these forums, I may have even posted one myself some time ago. I believe it was 40 years ago this week (I believe end of August 1976) that these two souls were murdered and have never been identified despite tons of photos, evidence, and even clues. ** Police believe they are "pretty sure" who the killer was in fact and have the gun, but he himself died in the early 80's. They also believe "the killer" didn't know who his victims were as it appeared random. The guy victim is probably named 'Jacques' with the nickname of Jean or Jock. Initials on his ring had the J.P. initials. Some theorize his name was either Jacques-Pierre or Jean Pierre. Most recent DNA tests proved they were NOT brother and sister. Probably bf and gf from the same area. Case has always been of huge interest to me. Anybody else enthralled by this case or want to post any recent information or just opinions? Finally, there is always hope. After 21 years, the Grateful Dead fan was finally identified and his remains returned to his family.

08-27-2016, 10:24 PM	#3
1990 UM fan Unsolved Mysteries fanatic Senior Member Join Date: Jul 14, 2011 Location: United States Posts: 2,510	I read on another website that both Does resemble missing Washington couple Michael and Cordelia McMinn. I don't know if I can post the photos, since it shows the victims on the coroner's table, but here's a link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...-1976-6/page25
	__________________ Join my Unsolved Mysteries page (Facebook): http://www.facebook.com/pages/Unsolv...899616?sk=wall

08-27-2016, 03:49 PM	#2
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	Yes this case has always been very interesting to me. I'm sure they have the couples dna sample on hand by now so I'm surprised they haven't been matched up with any missing persons cases in the US. Perhaps they are not from US as speculated. The fact that the unidentified grateful dead fan was identified recently gives me hope it could be solved one day.

08-28-2016, 11:33 AM	#5
johnnyangel Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 08, 2002 Posts: 329	I have read up on the McMinns's but although there seem to be some interesting similarities and the McMinn's went missing about the same time - I believe their family says there are other discrepencies and were even open to providing DNA samples. The Sumter County couple also appeared to be from the Canada area or French Canadian...

08-28-2016, 11:35 AM	#6
johnnyangel Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 08, 2002 Posts: 329	I put together a package and sent it to Kim Russo (Psychic Medium) who always says she is good with 'finding names'. She gave me an address to send it to but it was returned by the news station without even being opened...which means they didn't want to even look at it and it didn't even make her desk... They only seem to want to make money by doing stories on celebrities...

08-28-2016, 06:37 PM	#9
Drakken Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 21, 2007 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 364	I am starting to wonder if I should contact the Sureté du Québec whether the Sumter County Does might match one of their missing people cases from the 70s. From what I know, they do not fit any cases currently made public here in Quebec.

08-29-2016, 12:37 PM	#10
LooksLikeCRicci Likes to live in a clean house Moderator Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 4,050	Ugh! I cannot believe this one has not been solved already. They were both very attractive and seemingly well-off. Someone has to be missing them. I was so grateful (no pun intended) that there was finally closure on the Jason Grateful Doe case. I'm hoping for the same resolution here. I'd love to know why this young couple was murdered. OT: Am I the only one who never thought they were brother and sister? I don't know why that is, but even when this case was originally profiled, I didn't think they would end up being related.

08-30-2016, 12:41 PM	#13
unsolved88 Member Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 16, 2006 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 514	I've gone back and forth on this theory on Websleuths, but could they be victims of Argentina's Dirty War? They seem to bear an striking resemblance to Cesar Lugones and his wife Maria Marta Vazquez Lugones who were abducted on May 14, 1976. This Websleuths post explains how Cesar and Maria could have ended up in the U.S., although how they ended up in such a small rural town in South Carolina is anyone's guess. The detractors of this theory point out that Maria was supposedly about two months pregnant when she went missing and the Jane Doe had never been pregnant at all. However, if Maria was in fact tortured and detained before she ended up murdered with her husband in South Carolina a few months afterward, she might very well have miscarried. Or the pregnancy could have simply been a rumor. Both look very similar to the Does (especially Maria), and for those of you who wish to look at some of the postmortem pics, there's one of John Doe where he appears to have a mark on his nose from wearing glasses, which would make sense if he is indeed Cesar. One question about this theory nags at me. Would Cesar and Maria have fluent enough in English to "get by" for a little while in America? If they were the same couple that the KOA campground worker spoke to, would Cesar have known English well enough to quickly concoct the story about being from Canada and his father disowning him? I really wish UM had done a full segment on this case.

08-30-2016, 01:44 PM	#15
johnnyangel Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 08, 2002 Posts: 329	[QUOTE=LooksLikeCRicci] I was so grateful (no pun intended) that there was finally closure on the Jason Grateful Doe case. I'm hoping for the same resolution here. I'd love to know why this young couple was murdered. /QUOTE] We may never know the full reason, but I think I read various places that it was probably just random. The killer would really have no way to know who they were or why they were walking down the road when they were. The killer may or may not have taken their wallets or ids (if he did, it was probably just simple robbery), but he had no way of knowing (or caring) that the people would never be identified 40 years later. Again, police believe they know who the killer was, but he himself died in the early 80s.