Came Across This Accidentally on Snopes (Ives/Henry)

[Thiussat]

So, with the presidential election coming up and with Hillary being the democratic nominee, it was bound to happen that all the Clinton conspiracy stuff from the 90's would emerge again. Back in the 90's there were numerous conspiracy theories and "lists" of alleged murders connected to the Clintons circulating around. Since this was before the Internet took off, most of it was circulated on radio shows, political magazines and in VHS videos ("The Clinton Chronicles" being one such video that you can now see on YouTube). For those that might not live in America, the gist of this conspiracy theory is that there are too many "mysterious deaths" around the Clintons to be coincidental. Suicides, murders, numerous plane crashes and many suspicious "natural cause" deaths. The time period of these cases range from the late 70's up until now (2016).

So, today I decided to see what Snopes.com has to say about the "body bags" claims. They went through many of the cases one-by-one and toward the end they mentioned, much to my surprise, the Ives/Henry case. Here is what Snopes uncovered in their research about that case:

Henry and Ives were run over by a train on 23 Aug 1987. Dr. Fahmy Malak, Arkansas' former state medical examiner, ruled the deaths accidental, saying the teens fell asleep on the tracks after smoking marijuana. A 1988 Saline County grand jury determined the boys were murdered and their bodies afterwards laid on the tracks, but no other conclusions were reached and no indictments were returned.

A number of Malak's determinations had been challenged and overturned during his career. He certainly wasn't always a conscientious medical examiner, and his Ives and Henry rulings were only two of many such he botched.

Getting back to the real meat of who killed the boys, we find nothing that ties Ives and Henry to Clinton. Though various of these lists will claim the boys accidentally stumbled onto a "protected" drug drop and were killed for it, there's no reason to believe even that. In a 25 May 1990 hearing before U.S. Magistrate Henry Jones Jr., Katherine Brightop said her ex-boyfriend Paul William Criswell told her that he and three other men were involved in the teenagers' deaths. Brightop said Criswell told her the boys tried to steal cocaine from Callaway's home and they were caught and beaten to death before their bodies were placed on the tracks.

Has anyone ever heard of Katherine Brightop and William Criswell before? I had never heard of them or the allegation that Criswell was involved. I have read that various people in Arkansas had pointed the finger at other people, but I never knew any details.

Regardless of the veracity of this claim, something similar to this scenario has been my theory all along. I think the boys were trying to steal someone's stash (though I assumed it was pot and not cocaine). So, Brighton's testimony, if true, fits in with that nicely.

As for all the other cases connected to Clinton, I am not so sure. I suspect most are bogus, but the sheer amount of cases does have to make one pause. Snopes' argument is basically that anytime you have a former President and his wife, you can connect them to almost anyone if you try hard enough. The sheer amount of people they know (even directly) is vast and if you look hard enough, you will find suicides and murders sprinkled around. This doesn't mean they had anything to do with any of them. In other words, it becomes sort of a Kevin Bacon game. I agree with Snopes on this point.

And, no, I don't want to turn this into a political discussion. Whether one is pro-Clinton or not should be irrelevant. A good investigator will put away all biases and look at the facts. I am not a Clinton fan at all, but I will admit that I think most of the list is bogus. Indeed, the cases I find most compelling are the most recent murders that happened in the past few weeks (the two young DNC staffers are highly suspicious, I have to say). Seth Rich and Shaun Lucas. Google them.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Yep. Let's steer away from the politics. If it starts to veer in that direction, I may have to lock the thread down.... just an early warning.

I DID see this Snopes article years ago. It also links Vince Foster to the Clinton Body Count, who was also the subject of a UM segment.

I believe Foster committed suicide. I believe the boys were murdered, but not by the Clinton administration.

[xxxxmattxxxx69]

Originally Posted by Thiussat

So, with the presidential election coming up and with Hillary being the democratic nominee, it was bound to happen that all the Clinton conspiracy stuff from the 90's would emerge again. Back in the 90's there were numerous conspiracy theories and "lists" of alleged murders connected to the Clintons circulating around. Since this was before the Internet took off, most of it was circulated on radio shows, political magazines and in VHS videos ("The Clinton Chronicles" being one such video that you can now see on YouTube). For those that might not live in America, the gist of this conspiracy theory is that there are too many "mysterious deaths" around the Clintons to be coincidental. Suicides, murders, numerous plane crashes and many suspicious "natural cause" deaths. The time period of these cases range from the late 70's up until now (2016).

So, today I decided to see what Snopes.com has to say about the "body bags" claims. They went through many of the cases one-by-one and toward the end they mentioned, much to my surprise, the Ives/Henry case. Here is what Snopes uncovered in their research about that case:



Has anyone ever heard of Katherine Brightop and William Criswell before? I had never heard of them or the allegation that Criswell was involved. I have read that various people in Arkansas had pointed the finger at other people, but I never knew any details.

Regardless of the veracity of this claim, something similar to this scenario has been my theory all along. I think the boys were trying to steal someone's stash (though I assumed it was pot and not cocaine). So, Brighton's testimony, if true, fits in with that nicely.

As for all the other cases connected to Clinton, I am not so sure. I suspect most are bogus, but the sheer amount of cases does have to make one pause. Snopes' argument is basically that anytime you have a former President and his wife, you can connect them to almost anyone if you try hard enough. The sheer amount of people they know (even directly) is vast and if you look hard enough, you will find suicides and murders sprinkled around. This doesn't mean they had anything to do with any of them. In other words, it becomes sort of a Kevin Bacon game. I agree with Snopes on this point.

And, no, I don't want to turn this into a political discussion. Whether one is pro-Clinton or not should be irrelevant. A good investigator will put away all biases and look at the facts. I am not a Clinton fan at all, but I will admit that I think most of the list is bogus. Indeed, the cases I find most compelling are the most recent murders that happened in the past few weeks (the two young DNC staffers are highly suspicious, I have to say). Seth Rich and Shaun Lucas. Google them.

Not only are ploitical discussions not allowed on these boards but that video sharing site is not either

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by Thiussat

Has anyone ever heard of Katherine Brightop and William Criswell before? I had never heard of them or the allegation that Criswell was involved. I have read that various people in Arkansas had pointed the finger at other people, but I never knew any details.

Regardless of the veracity of this claim, something similar to this scenario has been my theory all along. I think the boys were trying to steal someone's stash (though I assumed it was pot and not cocaine). So, Brighton's testimony, if true, fits in with that nicely.

I did a Google search on those names and the only matches that come up for Katherine Brightop are exact cut-and-pastes of that same text about the May 25, 1990 hearing and they mostly show up on conspiracy websites.

However, I find this 1993 appeal for Paul William Criswell about his cocaine charge...
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinio...united-states/

And it looks like he was just booked with domestic battery and endangering the welfare of a minor last month...
http://www.arkansasonline.com/right2...template=modal

Since the boys did have some marijuana in their systems that night (though it was between one or three cigarettes' worth, certainly not the 20 the medical examiner claimed), I've always suspected they willingly met up with someone who was dealing drugs, but somehow things went wrong and led to murder.