Andre Jones (Mysterious Hanging Death) - this just sticks with me

[johnnyangel]

Anybody else enthralled with this case? I think it aired in 1992, I still have it on VHS.

I guess the overall point isn't so much of why Andre was arrested (whether he did anything or not) or even whether or not Andre was in a gang.

Just from a "devil's advocate point of view"

He was supposed to start college the following Monday morning - why would he just up and hang himself?

- He wasn't looking at any HUMONGOUS amount of jail time even if guilty of everything (he had no previous record, so slaps on the wrist and maybe community service and probation would have been about all he would have done)

- Gang member or not, he STILL COULD have attended college.
- He had no criminal record
- He had no history of depression according to his family.

- Hung himself with a shoelace??? (various inmates have said that was staged)

- Two coroners found two different death scenarios?

Just wanted to see if anybody else was flabbergasted by this episode..

[TheCars1986]

Clear cut case of suicide to me. Always has been.

I've posted my thoughts here and here.

ETA:

This post in the same thread has a link to an article which has the pathologist interviewed on the segment (the one who says murder) concede that there were no signs of a struggle. He also never examined the crime scene photos, and was simply going off a description of Andre's body when he was found.

[MegtheEgg86]

It is possible for a person to hang him- or herself with a shoelace, depending on the tensile strength of the laces.

But I've always thought Andre Jones was murdered based off the articles and documents I've read and the segment itself (which, realistically, should be taken with something of a grain of a salt).

[Steve W.]

His case really is a divisive one. It seems just as likely to be suicide as it is murder. Of course, the question to ask if it was suicide is: why?

http://unsolved.com/archives/andre-jones

[bugnpinky]

I'm afraid it's not very clear cut at all...it is most definitely up for debate, as the evidence can point either way. Shoelace is difficult for suicide but it can be done. Steve W makes a good question-why?

[Steve W.]

Also, according to a comment below Jones' case synopsis at the bottom of the page, the pathologist that ruled in favor of it being a suicide (Steven Hayne) was later discredited and charged with perjury in other cases:


Here's the comment: "Steven Hayne was eventually discredited as a pathologist, punished for perjury & several murder cases were overturned or reopened bc of his "evidence." Whether that has anything to do with it, I don't know, but this sounds mighty suspicious."


http://unsolved.com/archives/andre-jones

[TheCars1986]

Found this article which said that at the time of Andre's death, 1/3 of all the suicides that occurred in jails happened in the South. Apparently, they were much more lax in attitude about inmate safety than other places in the country. The article also says that a gun was found under the seat of the vehicle Andre was driving, he was taken to the "toughest" jail in Mississippi, and that the pathologist was quoted as saying that you can't kill yourself by crouching down (Michael Carmichael).

[VethixoDisco]

Murdered.

How would you hang yourself with a shoelace without an accomplice? An 18-year old kid about to attend college with a girlfriend just up and hangs himself? Get real.

I wouldn't be surprised if a racist inmate or police office caught wind that one of his parents worked for the NAACP. NAACP means a lot of negative press, and a lot of heat, wouldn't be surprised if they killed him and labeled it a suicide so they wouldn't have to deal with the racist-charged press.

[soilentgreen]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Found this article which said that at the time of Andre's death, 1/3 of all the suicides that occurred in jails happened in the South. Apparently, they were much more lax in attitude about inmate safety than other places in the country.

I can think of a few - Orleans Parish Prison (actually a jail), in New Orleans LA and Pinellas Co, FL - that have notorious histories of inmate suicides, abuses and suspicious deaths.

Originally Posted by VethixoDisco

How would you hang yourself with a shoelace without an accomplice? An 18-year old kid about to attend college with a girlfriend just up and hangs himself? Get real.

An article about suicide in jails (also mentions Hayne).

The question is, why weren't his shoelaces confiscated when he was jailed? Unfortunately this situation can occur when jail protocols are weak. There's a higher risk of suicide in a heightened, shock and stress filled situation like being jailed, especially if this is the person's first experience of such, when your normalcy and support structure are suddenly taken away.

[VethixoDisco]

Originally Posted by soilentgreen

An article about suicide in jails (also mentions Hayne).

The question is, why weren't his shoelaces confiscated when he was jailed? Unfortunately this situation can occur when jail protocols are weak. There's a higher risk of suicide in a heightened, shock and stress filled situation like being jailed, especially if this is the person's first experience of such, when your normalcy and support structure are suddenly taken away.

I'd buy his suicide more if he was given a life sentence, or something similar. Also, I understand thinking this was a suicide as this was his first time in prison and being scared to the point of taking his own life (rumors of prison rape, etc), but I don't believe it was a suicide. I read the article and while some were suicides you can't rule all deaths in that prison as a suicide.

I'm not believing that an 18-year old black teenager in a Mississippi prison who had two powerful parents in the African-American community taking his own life. I'm sure he thought his parents weight could get him out sooner than later. Read all the articles you want, but it doesn't match up with his shoe-string suicide, and the fact you had a black teenager in a Southern prison with I'm sure some hardcore racist inmates/officers.

This is a case where one has to use common sense, and not look through statistics and articles. Place a 18-year old black teenager in a Southern prison who had parents in two strong afro-centric groups grouped in with racist inmates, and officers and there ya go. And don't you find it odd how many times he called his mother while in prison hoping to get bailed out, and then just up and committed suicide? Obviously he was frightened but calling his mother that much mean't he thought she could get him out.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Man, I really wish the police officers had in-car or body cameras that could have been reviewed. Each side's story is SO different. Those videos could have held a lot of answers that we don't have...

[VethixoDisco]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

Man, I really wish the police officers had in-car or body cameras that could have been reviewed. Each side's story is SO different. Those videos could have held a lot of answers that we don't have...

Most definitely body cameras would've been extremely helpful, maybe he'd still be alive today.

I have to wonder if they planned to kill him after figuring out who his parents were. If Andre was released and told his parents about how he was called racial slurs, and treated harshly, you'd figured not only the press but Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson would've been down there protesting in no time. Guess it would've been more convenient for the cops to have him commit "suicide" with his own shoe-string, so that way they couldn't get that much heat.

Maybe the NAACP and/or The Nation of Islam had a beef with the police department.

[soilentgreen]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

Man, I really wish the police officers had in-car or body cameras that could have been reviewed. Each side's story is SO different. Those videos could have held a lot of answers that we don't have...

I wish there had been cctv of the cells and showers, although with negligent staff suicides and homicides still won't be prevented.

Originally Posted by VethixoDisco

This is a case where one has to use common sense, and not look through statistics and articles. Place a 18-year old black teenager in a Southern prison who had parents in two strong afro-centric groups grouped in with racist inmates, and officers and there ya go.

There are two divergent theories, both of which have happened in jails before, but subsequent investigations by the FBI and the MI state M.E. after Hayne's dismissal found no evidence of a homicide. The articles illustrate how negligent and terrible of environments some of these jails are; suspicious deaths have happened, but suicide is still the leading cause of death in U.S. jails (not the prison system).

Other than the alleged racist comment made by one of the staff at the jails, was there any evidence that the inmates were racist? Certainly the sheriff having a problematic good ol' boy history shouldn't be ignored, but some of inmate's testimonies stated that Jones acted depressed. If this was a result of being jailed or if there were physical or verbal abuses against him by either staff or other detainees will probably never be determined - the statements about the wheelchair are troubling. I don't think it's out of the question that he was abused in some manner that contributed to suicide, but all of this is speculation.

[VethixoDisco]

Originally Posted by soilentgreen

I wish there had been cctv of the cells and showers, although with negligent staff suicides and homicides still won't be prevented.



There are two divergent theories, both of which have happened in jails before, but subsequent investigations by the FBI and the MI state M.E. after Hayne's dismissal found no evidence of a homicide. The articles illustrate how negligent and terrible of environments some of these jails are; suspicious deaths have happened, but suicide is still the leading cause of death in U.S. jails (not the prison system).

Other than the alleged racist comment made by one of the staff at the jails, was there any evidence that the inmates were racist? Certainly the sheriff having a problematic good ol' boy history shouldn't be ignored, but some of inmate's testimonies stated that Jones acted depressed. If this was a result of being jailed or if there were physical or verbal abuses against him by either staff or other detainees will probably never be determined - the statements about the wheelchair are troubling. I don't think it's out of the question that he was abused in some manner that contributed to suicide, but all of this is speculation.

I'll take those articles with a grain of salt, and won't believe that every death in that prison is a suicide, leading cause or not. And what evidence do you need to believe that racist inmates would be jailed in one of the most racist states? The KKK is still prevalent there, that shouldn't be to hard to figure out.

Wasn't there an article that said the lawyer Andre's parents hired had said that the inmates were rehearsed into what to say and said different accounts, but never came forward? Also, I'm going to take a bunch of inmates who were still locked up, wanting to save their own skin testimonies about his "depression" with a grain of salt. Not to be offensive but your logic is completely backwards. You believe he was abused to the point of being placed in a wheelchair, and that depression caused him to commit suicide - but you don't believe that the people who put him in that wheelchair would have killed him?

[bugnpinky]

Cases like this often have an element of "we'll never really know." CO's get away with quite a few things and cover for each other. Inmates can and do kill themselves without any CO misconduct. Seen too much from prior work experience to totally go either way because it really is hard to tell.