Fear of Discipline on LITB & "Going to the Den" Trauma - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Jack1000 · 04-10-2002, 12:03 AM

I always found it interesting that there were times on LITB, when Wally & Beaver would be fearful of what their parents would do. Especially of what Ward would do if Beaver did something bad. Wally for example would always plant the seed of "A lot of yelling and screaming going on." What's interesting is that Ward was such a gental soul, and probably the most understanking, kind TV father of all time who rarely, if ever, yelled . There are also instances of Larry talking about his dad, "hollering at him and hitting him." I think poor Larry, from what we are led to beleive, may have been abused by his father. (Look at what a nervous wreck Mrs. Mondello always was.) Larry mentioned his sister being hit by his mother at least once and also Larry being yelled at by his father several times.

I think June is very over-protective of Beaver in the early episodes. Do you guys think that it was ok for Beaver to get off "scott free" (and Wally too) with no punishment at all in "The Haircut?" I think that is however the only time that either or both of the boys did something bad and got off completely.

June however does show, on a rare occasion, that she actually can do something without Ward's help in terms of talking to the boys in "Brotherly Love" (Where she makes the write a "friendship pact" to try to get them to stop fighting.) But heaven forbid that her dinner burns! (haha) Ward had to do a lot of things that June could have taken on some responsibility for herself IMO.

It does seem that there was always this anxiety or trauma of Wally and Beaver being afraid to talk to their parents for fear of being yelled at. (Or in Larry's case, being yelled at & hit.) I didn't grow up in the 1950's, but did kids really have that kind of anxiety over what their father would do when they did something bad? The producers seem to imply that a certain readiness was necessary.... (June sends the boys up to their room to wait for Ward, presumably because she can't be the dicipinarian.) Ward comes home, and wants to see Beaver (or sometimes Wally) in the DEN. Interesting how they don't just talk in the living room, or the kitchen...it's always......"Dad wants to see you in THE DEN Beaver." You wonder why a problem had to be discussed in THE DEN? What's wrong with the living room or kitchen? (The dramatic music, when Beaver goes to THE DEN, to talk to Ward, I think is funny...They make it sound like Beav's going to the chair!") All he's doing is talking to Dad.

Maybe by going to THE DEN and shutting the door, Ward knows that June can't evesdrop on his conversation. (She was a nosy thing and would DIE to know any private coversation that other family members where involved in!)

The den on LITB=The Discipline Room.

cablejockey · 04-14-2002, 11:52 AM

Kids in the 50s had no one to turn to in cases of abuse from parents or any other adult authority firgure. They had no hot lines to call, no children's aid that would believe a child over an adult. There have been stories coming for years about kids who starred in some of the best loved tv shows, who were abused in some way. They knew nobody would believe them and suffered in silence until they grew up. Lauren Chapin, and Jay North are two that come to mind. So I imagine there were a lot of kids who were afraid of their parents and what they would do to them if they disobeyed or broke the rules.

dasanders · 05-15-2002, 04:26 PM

"Going to the Den" is sort of like "Going to the Woodshed" or "A Talking To". Kids were usually punished by spankings during the 50's. It wasn't something that they looked forward to with joy. Most mothers had the daily chore of rearing the children and the children didn't take mother as seriously as they did FATHER. Father was gone all day and was the hero. You didn't want to disappoint FATHER, he was the one you looked up to and you didn't want to face him with your sins and misdeeds.

Spankings were not pleasant, but it was far from child abuse. Of course there were those parents who did physically and/or mentally abused their children. There have always been those monsters and there will always be those monsters. You do notice the love that the Cleaver family had for one another and there is no hint of child abuse or real fear of Ward. I never doubted that Wally and "The Beav" respected Ward Cleaver and I think they dreaded the "den" because they had disappointed their father and they didn't want the confrontation. Most kids had to pay the piper in some way. Groundings were usually for the older children. If there was no physical punishment, generally you had to repay your sins in some way. Helping out in cleaning the house, dishes, not seeing any movies, etc... for a specified amount of time was one way. Being sent to your room was much different in the olden days since there were no phones, TV's, computers, gameboys, palm pilots, etc... way back then and there was little to do in your room but read, play with a few toys, do homework and think of your transgressions.

Discipline was meted out according to the rules, and you knew the rules. There were no shades of grey. I really doubt that Larry was abused either. He was prone to exageration in most of the episodes.

My parents punished us physically by spanking us when we did something really wrong. It had to be something pretty serious before we got to that point. If my father had ever spanked me I think I would have died from the shame. When we reached the age of 12 my parents no longer spanked.

These are my impressions of why the boys dreaded the DEN.

DASanders

04-10-2002, 12:03 AM	#1
Jack1000 Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 05, 2001 Posts: 2,055	Fear of Discipline on LITB & "Going to the Den" Trauma I always found it interesting that there were times on LITB, when Wally & Beaver would be fearful of what their parents would do. Especially of what Ward would do if Beaver did something bad. Wally for example would always plant the seed of "A lot of yelling and screaming going on." What's interesting is that Ward was such a gental soul, and probably the most understanking, kind TV father of all time who rarely, if ever, yelled . There are also instances of Larry talking about his dad, "hollering at him and hitting him." I think poor Larry, from what we are led to beleive, may have been abused by his father. (Look at what a nervous wreck Mrs. Mondello always was.) Larry mentioned his sister being hit by his mother at least once and also Larry being yelled at by his father several times. I think June is very over-protective of Beaver in the early episodes. Do you guys think that it was ok for Beaver to get off "scott free" (and Wally too) with no punishment at all in "The Haircut?" I think that is however the only time that either or both of the boys did something bad and got off completely. June however does show, on a rare occasion, that she actually can do something without Ward's help in terms of talking to the boys in "Brotherly Love" (Where she makes the write a "friendship pact" to try to get them to stop fighting.) But heaven forbid that her dinner burns! (haha) Ward had to do a lot of things that June could have taken on some responsibility for herself IMO. It does seem that there was always this anxiety or trauma of Wally and Beaver being afraid to talk to their parents for fear of being yelled at. (Or in Larry's case, being yelled at & hit.) I didn't grow up in the 1950's, but did kids really have that kind of anxiety over what their father would do when they did something bad? The producers seem to imply that a certain readiness was necessary.... (June sends the boys up to their room to wait for Ward, presumably because she can't be the dicipinarian.) Ward comes home, and wants to see Beaver (or sometimes Wally) in the DEN. Interesting how they don't just talk in the living room, or the kitchen...it's always......"Dad wants to see you in THE DEN Beaver." You wonder why a problem had to be discussed in THE DEN? What's wrong with the living room or kitchen? (The dramatic music, when Beaver goes to THE DEN, to talk to Ward, I think is funny...They make it sound like Beav's going to the chair!") All he's doing is talking to Dad. Maybe by going to THE DEN and shutting the door, Ward knows that June can't evesdrop on his conversation. (She was a nosy thing and would DIE to know any private coversation that other family members where involved in!) The den on LITB=The Discipline Room.

05-15-2002, 04:26 PM	#3
dasanders Member First Time Poster Join Date: May 15, 2002 Location: SW Montana Posts: 1	Fear of Discipline - LITB & "Going to the Den" "Going to the Den" is sort of like "Going to the Woodshed" or "A Talking To". Kids were usually punished by spankings during the 50's. It wasn't something that they looked forward to with joy. Most mothers had the daily chore of rearing the children and the children didn't take mother as seriously as they did FATHER. Father was gone all day and was the hero. You didn't want to disappoint FATHER, he was the one you looked up to and you didn't want to face him with your sins and misdeeds. Spankings were not pleasant, but it was far from child abuse. Of course there were those parents who did physically and/or mentally abused their children. There have always been those monsters and there will always be those monsters. You do notice the love that the Cleaver family had for one another and there is no hint of child abuse or real fear of Ward. I never doubted that Wally and "The Beav" respected Ward Cleaver and I think they dreaded the "den" because they had disappointed their father and they didn't want the confrontation. Most kids had to pay the piper in some way. Groundings were usually for the older children. If there was no physical punishment, generally you had to repay your sins in some way. Helping out in cleaning the house, dishes, not seeing any movies, etc... for a specified amount of time was one way. Being sent to your room was much different in the olden days since there were no phones, TV's, computers, gameboys, palm pilots, etc... way back then and there was little to do in your room but read, play with a few toys, do homework and think of your transgressions. Discipline was meted out according to the rules, and you knew the rules. There were no shades of grey. I really doubt that Larry was abused either. He was prone to exageration in most of the episodes. My parents punished us physically by spanking us when we did something really wrong. It had to be something pretty serious before we got to that point. If my father had ever spanked me I think I would have died from the shame. When we reached the age of 12 my parents no longer spanked. These are my impressions of why the boys dreaded the DEN. DASanders

04-14-2002, 11:52 AM	#2
cablejockey Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: ontario canada Posts: 478	Kids in the 50s had no one to turn to in cases of abuse from parents or any other adult authority firgure. They had no hot lines to call, no children's aid that would believe a child over an adult. There have been stories coming for years about kids who starred in some of the best loved tv shows, who were abused in some way. They knew nobody would believe them and suffered in silence until they grew up. Lauren Chapin, and Jay North are two that come to mind. So I imagine there were a lot of kids who were afraid of their parents and what they would do to them if they disobeyed or broke the rules.