The Dale/Liz Carmichael story gets even weirder...

[wiseguy182]

I realized we hadn't discussed this classic story in ages, so I was doing some more research and found one hell of an article. Just when you thought this bizarre story couldn't possibly get any weirder, check THIS out. A murder connected to the scam, an appearance on the Price Is Right and other doozies.

http://jalopnik.com/murder-transsexu...tory-464820740

With that in mind, I have a boatload of classic Price is Right episodes, but I don't have this particular one. Old TPIR eps haven't aired anywhere in 15 years, there's been some rumors they might get played again once Bob Barker croaks (he'd be 92 in December). Needless to say, this episode would be near the top of my want list.

And in case anyone was wondering WHY they haven't aired classic Price is Right in so long, the matter is usually debated whenever it comes up, but most people think it's because Bob Barker doesn't want the old episodes aired due to being on bad terms with nearly all of the models from the first 20 years or so of the show (he was sued for sexual harassment by Dian Parkinson and for wrongful termination by Holly Hallstrom. Janice Pennington and Kathleen Bradley were also let go for suspicious reasons.)

I can't really tell because it's not a good pic, but is that the same guy that was interviewed in the segment? One of the ones that still supported Liz?

[atomicfizz]

Wow! I'd love to see that episode too! Imagine if they had won!

[unsolved88]

On J-Shea's site, there's audio of several of Dennis James' Nighttime Price is Right shows. Unfortunately, I can't get the clips to play on my computer anymore, but I'm pretty sure I remember one of those shows offering the Dale in a showcase.

http://www.j-shea.com/TPIR/nighttime/index.html

[atomicfizz]

Listened to a few of those, thought I had it on Jan 14th '75 as he says "what do we have here?? It's a three wheeled car!!" but it was called a Centaur by the Ruff (?) corporation.

I love how the showcases vary so much. Sometimes they'll have swimwear or luggage and then maybe a trip, others had cars such as a Mustang and a Monte Carlo.

[mozartpc27]

Originally Posted by atomicfizz

Listened to a few of those, thought I had it on Jan 14th '75 as he says "what do we have here?? It's a three wheeled car!!" but it was called a Centaur by the Ruff (?) corporation.

I love how the showcases vary so much. Sometimes they'll have swimwear or luggage and then maybe a trip, others had cars such as a Mustang and a Monte Carlo.

Hmm. I wonder if this is not, in fact, what the author of the article is referring to. Re-runs of the Price Is Right were essentially non-existent until the Game Show Network (except for by CBS itself, when new shows weren't available, but the shelf life of those re-runs couldn't have been more than a year or two), and, as wiseguy points out, now re-runs are again unavailable. What are the chances the author of the article was able to track down the exact episode where the Dale/Revette was supposedly a prize? And if the author wasn't able to do that, what is his source for the idea that the car was a prize on the Price Is Right?

At the same time, it would have been an awful risk to offer the Dale/Revette as a prize if it was clear no functioning car existed; and if Liz's scheme was to defraud, it's hard to imagine she ever intended to actually produce enough of them to give one away as a prize. Given the timing of the episode you saw (1975 - around the same time that the Dale/Revette was both becoming a thing - getting shown at the LA auto show - and also about to come unglued), I wonder if some fact didn't get blended with some legend here: that a 3 wheel car was a possible prize (although I cannot find any reference to a Ruf Centaur in a cursory net search - Ruf is a real motor car company FWIW), that someone who saw the episode believed the car must have been this "Dale/Revette," and that it became a "fact" that the Dale/Revette was offered as a prize on The Price Is Right.

I've never heard of a road-viable three wheeled car being commercially available. What are the chances that not one - but TWO - were offered as prizes on The Price Is Right in a short span in 1975?

[wiseguy182]

Originally Posted by mozartpc27

Hmm. I wonder if this is not, in fact, what the author of the article is referring to. Re-runs of the Price Is Right were essentially non-existent until the Game Show Network (except for by CBS itself, when new shows weren't available, but the shelf life of those re-runs couldn't have been more than a year or two), and, as wiseguy points out, now re-runs are again unavailable. What are the chances the author of the article was able to track down the exact episode where the Dale/Revette was supposedly a prize? And if the author wasn't able to do that, what is his source for the idea that the car was a prize on the Price Is Right?

At the same time, it would have been an awful risk to offer the Dale/Revette as a prize if it was clear no functioning car existed; and if Liz's scheme was to defraud, it's hard to imagine she ever intended to actually produce enough of them to give one away as a prize. Given the timing of the episode you saw (1975 - around the same time that the Dale/Revette was both becoming a thing - getting shown at the LA auto show - and also about to come unglued), I wonder if some fact didn't get blended with some legend here: that a 3 wheel car was a possible prize (although I cannot find any reference to a Ruf Centaur in a cursory net search - Ruf is a real motor car company FWIW), that someone who saw the episode believed the car must have been this "Dale/Revette," and that it became a "fact" that the Dale/Revette was offered as a prize on The Price Is Right.

I've never heard of a road-viable three wheeled car being commercially available. What are the chances that not one - but TWO - were offered as prizes on The Price Is Right in a short span in 1975?

Having been a prolific game show trader back in the day (I may return one day), I can tell you there are literally hundreds of old Price is Right episodes in circulation. I know that because I have hundreds of them. Therefore, I don't find it far-fetched at all the author would have been able to track down a specific episode, or a more likelier option, stumbled on it by accident and did the appropriate research.

I think the bigger problem for Liz had she allowed the car to be offered as a prize would be the negative publicity once the scam was realized. But then again, we do know she made lots of media appearances around the time, including the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson (another ep I'd like to track down, I hear they recently started showing reruns of that show on some network).

I don't know what game shows offer today as I don't care for the newer shows. I can tell you they offered a lot of goofball prizes back in the day, with Price is Right being one of the worst offenders in that category (a giant gumball machine?).

I can tell you this for a fact: they did offer one UM related prize on there back in the 70's, and I know this because I have that episode: A Mickey Thompson dragster. Talk about a WTF moment.

[atomicfizz]

I can't find any information on a RUF Centaur either, but I listened to it twice and I am nearly certain that is what he said. I googled "ruf three wheeled car" and "centaur car" and didn't find anything with three wheels. There is something called a Centaur that was sold between 72 and 77, but I think it said only 52 were sold and it appears to be a car that was made in the UK.

The announcer definitely says "it's a three-wheeled car!" on that clip, so I don't know what the heck it is, unless it was something so unpopular that it never made its way from 1975 to internet timelessness.

I wonder if it is at all possible that Carmichael was involved and it was a Dale/Revette but she fraudulently claimed it was made by Ruf (for credibility or something) and was called a Centaur? Posing as a rep for Ruf or something? Though I'm not sure what benefit that would have had for her and the Dale. Just thinking along the lines of her being a scammer, you never know what she might have done.

[TheEZ]

Could it have been the Rupp Centaur? It had 3 wheels and was sold in 1974 and 75.

http://tinyurl.com/ruppcentaur

[atomicfizz]

That's definitely possible that they said Rupp and not Ruf. I only had audio with no transcription, so I'd say its 100% possible I heard the manufacturer incorrectly. If it was that, I think they were stretching it referring to it as a "car" (which I am 100% positive they did say), seems everyone considers it a motorcycle or bike, but I'm sure TPIR tries to make things as sensational as they can, and looking at it and the way you sit in it would make it easy enough to refer to it as a car. I wish we had video of that show.

[Awsi Dooger]

Huge favoritism it was Rupp Centaur.

Price is Right had lots of semi-obscure prizes, especially in the showcase. I distinctly remember upstart golf companies offering their sets of clubs, mostly for the publicity. Bob Barker was an avid golfer so he probably pushed for it, able to sample the clubs himself.

Anyway, good find that the Dale was offered on that show. I'm sure Carmichael explored avenues that were much more outrageous and daring. Scammers never stop plotting. We only hear about the ones that partially played out. So many years later, even the best researchers won't uncover everything.

Game shows actually have a fairly clean history. Beyond logical. You hear about the Dating Game wavy hair murderer but considering the number of people involved over the decades, and low scrutiny to make it on the air, I would have expected many more major felons, if not worse.

Dian Parkinson in a bikini during the Showcase Showdown was among the greatest TV of all time. It reached a wonderful point of absurdity in the late '70s and early '80s that they would make sure to feature her in that role at least once a week, no matter how forced. It could be a week's trip to Kansas and there's Dian in her bikini, smiling and running her fingers toward a map of Wichita. Instead of new car it became new boat. I saw more boats on Price is Right than in all my years in Miami. When it was a male vs. female showdown with Dian in that bikini the male was so distracted his bids made very little sense, but he didn't seem to care.

[Hops3098]

I read that article a few years ago. I loved seeing the promotional materials and such.

One part that the author touches on briefly... which is what my question has always been: I get that Liz probably made up her ex-husband, but where did her 5 children actually come from?

[atomicfizz]

I read that Liz was married to a woman at one point when she was still living as a man, and was married throughout her transition to Liz. I thought I read that the children did not exist, they were just made up, though.

[wiseguy182]

Originally Posted by atomicfizz

I read that Liz was married to a woman at one point when she was still living as a man, and was married throughout her transition to Liz. I thought I read that the children did not exist, they were just made up, though.

actually, the children did exist. Another amusing article.

http://www.people.com/people/archive...065184,00.html

[atomicfizz]

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

actually, the children did exist. Another amusing article.

http://www.people.com/people/archive...065184,00.html

haha thank you. Everything I read said the kids were just made up. That clears it up though!

I have to say, as an aside, so many of these articles describe Liz as a "brute" of a woman, saying she was 6' - 6' 2" and weighed 200 pounds. I realize she still had a man's build, but when I hear that I feel like I must look like quite a brute myself, since I'm 5'10" and weigh 185. I wear a size 10 or 12 though, which is smaller than the average size in the US, so I'm always confused about this statement. I would imagine with the extra height and weight compensating for each other she would have a similar build to myself, and I don't think anyone has ever called me a brute. I have body dysmorphia though so I actually don't really know what I look like. I can only go by my clothing size to get an idea.

[wiseguy182]

Originally Posted by atomicfizz

haha thank you. Everything I read said the kids were just made up. That clears it up though!

I have to say, as an aside, so many of these articles describe Liz as a "brute" of a woman, saying she was 6' - 6' 2" and weighed 200 pounds. I realize she still had a man's build, but when I hear that I feel like I must look like quite a brute myself, since I'm 5'10" and weigh 185. I wear a size 10 or 12 though, which is smaller than the average size in the US, so I'm always confused about this statement. I would imagine with the extra height and weight compensating for each other she would have a similar build to myself, and I don't think anyone has ever called me a brute. I have body dysmorphia though so I actually don't really know what I look like. I can only go by my clothing size to get an idea.

oh, you're fine dear. There are numerous tall women in my family.

I'm really surprised a t.v. movie hasn't been made about this case, it's perfect for that type of thing. I heard one company bought the rights to it but never did anything with it.