A Good Example of Cases That Were Self-Inflicted - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Thiussat · 06-03-2015, 10:07 AM

There has been a lot of discussion over the years about some of the more bizarre cases featured on UM such as the Blair Adams "murder" and Cindy James case. I find both of these cases very sad, but also compelling in a "that was riveting TV" kind of way. I sort of feel bad for enjoying the cases because I know a real person lost his or her life. But, I'll get back to the James and Adams cases in a moment.

I keep up, on and off, with more recent cases of bizarre murders or disappearances. One case that I found riveting (until I solved it 10 minutes later) is one I just ran across recently involving a young woman named Elisa Lam. This happened back in 2013 and has been a huge Internet sensation. There is even a major motion picture coming out about it sometime this or next year.

Now, you might ask what does this have to do with UM? Well, two things:

1) I mention it because it would be a very riveting UM case if Robert Stack were still around to narrate.

But I mainly mention it because:

2) I think it compares closely with the Cindy James and Blair Adams cases.

I will explain more about that in a second, but first let me give a run down of what happened in the Lam case.

In 2013, a 21 year old Canadian college student named Elisa Lam left her Canadian home and ended up in L.A. For reasons not totally known, she wanted to tour the west coast of the U.S. and even called it her "west coast tour" on her personal blog. She took buses and trains to get to California and finally ended up at the famous Cecil Hotel in L.A. near Skid Row. For those not familiar, it is an old hotel built in the 1920's that Richard Ramirez ("Night stalker") resided during 12 of the murders he committed back in the 80's. It is also the last place Elizabeth Short (Black Dahlia) stayed before she was found murdered. There have also been other murders and suicides at the hotel over the decades.

Elisa called her parents and told them she was leaving the hotel and heading to the next stop on her trip. She was scheduled to check out of the Cecil on Jan 31, but never appeared on the checkout date. Her parents called the police and the search began. Police found nothing after a search of her room and the case sort of went cold for a short while.

Then a few weeks later residents of the hotel began complaining about the water pressure and others complained about having a weird taste and color. The maintenance crew went to the roof and checked the water tanks. Inside one of the tanks, they found Elisa's decomposing body.

A bit later the security camera footage from the hotel was released to the media and it showed Elisa inside an elevator shortly before she disappeared. While in the elevator, she was acting very strangely. She entered the elevator, pressed the buttons, but the door wouldn't shut. She kept pressing the buttons, then peeking her head outside as if she was looking for someone. Then she hid in the corner of the elevator as if she was afraid of something. Finally, she exited and then went out into the hall and began waving her arms around in a random motion, almost as if performing a strange dance. It also appeared as if she might have been talking to someone out of the shot of the camera, but that's unconfirmed. You can see the video for yourself here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM

Now what does this have to do with Blair Adams or Cindy James? In case it isn't obvious, I think all three of these cases are not mysteries at all. Let me explain. When I first watched the Elisa Lam elevator video I said to myself "that poor girl is in the middle of a bi-polar crisis." I then did some more digging and it turns out that she said on her social media page that she was indeed bi-polar and just recently had to drop some classes because she had "relapsed." She was also on several medications which were found at autopsy (the autopsy found no illegal drugs, in case you're wondering).

How she ended up in the water tank on the roof is a mystery. The roof was protected by an alarm and a locked door. However, considering that there was graffiti on the roof, it is evident that the "security" wasn't very effective. Also, the roof was accessible by the fire escape stairway and it wouldn't have been that difficult for an able bodied person to make it up there. And considering Lam's strange behavior, it isn't too much of a stretch to assume she might made her way to the fire escape at some point.

Whether he death was a suicide or an accident is impossible to tell for sure. It is possible she had no intention of suicide and drowned accidentally after entering the water tank for reasons known only to herself. Considering she was psychotic at the time of her death, then the scenario of her stripping naked and jumping in the tank would not be considered "odd." Whether suicide or accident, it is obvious her mental state led to her death.

I feel Elisa's case is similar to the James and Adams cases because of the mental health aspect. I think Cindy was probably suffering from DID or Munchausen's and I think Blair Adams was a schizophrenic and quite psychotic during his trip. I think Cindy committed an elaborate suicide and I think it's possible that Elisa Lam committed suicide in such a way as to bring attention to her case after her death as well. For instance, Elisa set her Tumblr account to update itself after her death and some suspect she knew she would be dead.

I am not sure how I feel about a motion picture based on her case being released. I feel we are sort of ignoring the mentally ill by making it seem as if these cases all have some sinister or paranormal explanation. Bi-polar (especially Type I) is no laughing matter and there needs to be more awareness of the disorder and other disorders than can result in psychotic episodes.

wiseguy182 · 06-03-2015, 11:26 AM

Those are 3 complex cases that can't be solved that easily.

I'm very uncomfortable with the notion of labeling Elisa as "psychotic" because of the elevator video. I've said this repeatedly, but her movements in the elevator definitely appear to be because the elevator wasn't working properly. The door didn't close when it was supposed to, it didn't move when it was supposed to, etc.

As far as the water tank goes, the lid was very heavy and certainly couldn't have been moved and replaced by the wiry Lam.

Therefore, we can definitely rule out "suicide for attention".

Thiussat · 06-03-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

Those are 3 complex cases that can't be solved that easily.

I'm very uncomfortable with the notion of labeling Elisa as "psychotic" because of the elevator video. I've said this repeatedly, but her movements in the elevator definitely appear to be because the elevator wasn't working properly. The door didn't close when it was supposed to, it didn't move when it was supposed to, etc.

I don't think that can account for her odd foot movements, her waving her arms around or her hiding in the corner of the elevator. I know I wouldn't act that way simply because an elevator was out of order and I doubt most non-psychotic people would either.

It also appears to me like she was paranoid (peeking her head around the corner), which is one symptom of psychosis. If she were truly being approached by someone, why would she stand in the open elevator for that long? Why would she go out in the hall and just stand there waving her arms without any apparent attempt to flee? None of that makes sense.

Quote:

As far as the water tank goes, the lid was very heavy and certainly couldn't have been moved and replaced by the wiry Lam.

It could have been open already. And closing it would be much easier than opening it due to gravity.

Also, people make a big deal out of the tanks being roughly 10 feet high, but they don't mention that the tanks had an approximately 4 ft tall rail around them. It would be simple to get on that rail, then leverage oneself up to the top of the tanks. You could even balance between the wall and the side of the tank to work your way up. Elisa looked pretty agile and in shape.

mozartpc27 · 06-03-2015, 12:15 PM

Never heard of the Elisa Lam case before. I'd need time to research before I could comment fully, but certainly both the Blair Adams case and the Cindy James case have always both struck me as very disturbed people doing very disturbed things.

wiseguy182 · 06-03-2015, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thiussat

I don't think that can account for her odd foot movements, her waving her arms around or her hiding in the corner of the elevator. I know I wouldn't act that way simply because an elevator was out of order and I doubt most non-psychotic people would either.

The waving of the arms certainly jives with the elevator not working. Some doors have sensors that are supposed to be able to tell when a person is approaching. Since the door wasn't closing, she thought it didn't recognize her, and thus you get the arm waving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thiussat

It also appears to me like she was paranoid (peeking her head around the corner), which is one symptom of psychosis. If she were truly being approached by someone, why would she stand in the open elevator for that long? Why would she go out in the hall and just stand there waving her arms without any apparent attempt to flee? None of that makes sense.

She probably wasn't aware a camera was on her. Sometimes people make "odd movements" when they think they are alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thiussat

It could have been open already. And closing it would be much easier than opening it due to gravity. Elisa looked pretty agile and in shape

Disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thiussat

Also, people make a big deal out of the tanks being roughly 10 feet high, but they don't mention that the tanks had an approximately 4 ft tall rail around them. It would be simple to get on that rail, then leverage oneself up to the top of the tanks. You could even balance between the wall and the side of the tank to work your way up.

I do not buy your theory that she was "psychotic" and went skinny-dipping in the water tank for unknown reasons and committed suicide for the "attention". That's just a wee bit far-fetched. You have not "solved" this mystery in "10 minutes".

Thiussat · 06-03-2015, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

I do not buy your theory that she was "psychotic" and went skinny-dipping in the water tank for unknown reasons and committed suicide for the "attention". That's just a wee bit far-fetched. You have not "solved" this mystery in "10 minutes".

The police and coroner seem to agree that it was an accident or suicide (I believe it was officially ruled an accident, but the M.E. said suicide due to her bi-polar was a possibility).

It's either my scenario or you can believe the Youtubers who think it was

1) A Ghost

2) CIA operation

3) Alien abduction

etc.. Also, it is doubtful it was a murder by some random killer because her cause of death was drowning. Why would a killer take her up to a roof and drown her in a water tank? Of course, this is possible I suppose, but I find it more likely she is the one who devised the scheme herself.

SPD Yellow · 06-03-2015, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

I do not buy your theory that she was "psychotic" and went skinny-dipping in the water tank for unknown reasons and committed suicide for the "attention". That's just a wee bit far-fetched. You have not "solved" this mystery in "10 minutes".

Yeah, the line about her committing suicide for the "attention"....

I am really struggling to remain civil, because as someone who has struggled with suicidal ideation in the past, I think it's safe to say that suicide is usually a response to appalling pain, not some "Hey look at me!" response.

Plus the obvious flaw in your statement: people don't exactly behave rationally when they're psychotic. Their capacity to reason is shot to hell. We may never know what the hell she was thinking at the time. Heck, if somehow Elisa was rescued and put on meds or something, she'd probably be as baffled as everyone else by her behavior. The stuff you do when you're psychotic tends to only make sense when you're psychotic.

But I admit to not being an expert on this case. I imagine that there's really only so much that one can say, when all you have is secondhand information, but I have to agree with the person who started this thread: I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest murder. It could have been suicide or maybe she was psychotic and underestimated the dangers of what she was doing or something. It just seems like too elaborate and too much work for a murder. Unless you can name someone who would benefit from her death and why they would choose such a bizarre means of killing her as opposed to, I don't know, shooting her and trying to make it look like a robbery.

TheCars1986 · 06-03-2015, 07:08 PM

It's pretty obvious that it was a suicide or at the very least an accident.

There really isn't anything mysterious about it at all. A woman, with mental disorders, checks into a famous hotel with a morbid reputation, is seen acting very strange on an elevator video (that's not a woman trying to get the doors to close), and winds up dead shortly after.

The biggest red flags: she specifically called her parents to tell them she was checking out of the hotel coincidentally the day she dies, and she previously had set her Tumblr account to update immediately after she died.

WishfulDreamer · 06-03-2015, 09:52 PM

I have to disagree about Blair Adams. He was killed by a violent blow to the stomach. Even if he was psychotic, he did not kill himself.

I think Elisa Lam committed suicide. It's a tragic case, and I admit that when it first happened I immediately wondered if it was foul play because of the area and the security barriers she needed to pass. However, after reviewing things and realizing how lax the security was and her past history, I think she did it to herself. I don't rule out an accident, either.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 06-04-2015, 01:15 AM

A girl on Unsolved Mysteries who ran off a cliff in the middle of the night was determined to have suffered some sort of mental crisis.

wiseguy182 · 06-04-2015, 02:09 AM

Even if you can get past the alarms that were supposed to go off, and the difficulty of replacing the lid, there's the issue of how difficult it was to reach the tanks in the first place. Workers had to use a ladder to get to them.

There's also the strange issue of some of the elevator footage is missing and such.

soilentgreen · 06-04-2015, 10:50 AM

Here's a link to the autopsy report: http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/02/2...review/page/1/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush

A girl on Unsolved Mysteries who ran off a cliff in the middle of the night was determined to have suffered some sort of mental crisis.

I thought of Wanda Mays as well, and Don Kemp walking back in his footprints, possibly to throw searchers off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPD Yellow

Heck, if somehow Elisa was rescued and put on meds or something, she'd probably be as baffled as everyone else by her behavior. The stuff you do when you're psychotic tends to only make sense when you're psychotic.

I agree.

It sounds like patrons could gain access to the rooftop via the fire escape. Based on photos of the cisterns, they were close together, and Lam could have opened the unsecured access hatch on the cistern (this hatch is mentioned on page 20 of the autopsy report). There's still the question about how anyone could get onto the cisterns; at least one photo shows a fixed red metal ladder that goes to the top of the small building immediately adjacent to the cisterns. There's also photos of a ladder chained to one of the other cisterns, but as far as I know it's not been officially corroborated that the ladder was there on the day she would have been on the roof. I don't think it was a homicide either, but I don't blame her family for trying to obtain more information about the security procedures at the hotel.

TheCars1986 · 06-04-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

I have to disagree about Blair Adams. He was killed by a violent blow to the stomach. Even if he was psychotic, he did not kill himself.

Blair Adams is such a strange case. I'd put it right up there with Aieleen Conway as probably the top two most bizarre cases ever profiled on UM. But I agree that there is no way he committed suicide.

LethalMatthew1996 · 06-04-2015, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

There's also the strange issue of some of the elevator footage is missing and such.

I saw an interesting youtube video about the time stamp in the elevator video. Although the stamp has been somewhat blurred out (why?), you can see that the seconds on the stamp move slower than in real life. So it looks like the elevator video has been slowed down for some reason, and, like you said, there is some footage missing. It makes it all a little questionable, JMO.

88keys · 06-04-2015, 01:29 PM

I think Elisa Liam was psychotic or having some sort of episode and she accidentally killed herself. I mean, to me, that seems like the most likely scenario. I find it hard to believe that someone was chasing her and was never caught on camera. Also, it seems like it would be more difficult for someone to haul her up a ladder and over the rail than for her to climb up there herself.

I agree it's a really bizarre and fascinating case. I think it's less mysterious than the other two you mentioned, though.

06-03-2015, 10:07 AM	#1
Thiussat Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 601	A Good Example of Cases That Were Self-Inflicted There has been a lot of discussion over the years about some of the more bizarre cases featured on UM such as the Blair Adams "murder" and Cindy James case. I find both of these cases very sad, but also compelling in a "that was riveting TV" kind of way. I sort of feel bad for enjoying the cases because I know a real person lost his or her life. But, I'll get back to the James and Adams cases in a moment. I keep up, on and off, with more recent cases of bizarre murders or disappearances. One case that I found riveting (until I solved it 10 minutes later) is one I just ran across recently involving a young woman named Elisa Lam. This happened back in 2013 and has been a huge Internet sensation. There is even a major motion picture coming out about it sometime this or next year. Now, you might ask what does this have to do with UM? Well, two things: 1) I mention it because it would be a very riveting UM case if Robert Stack were still around to narrate. But I mainly mention it because: 2) I think it compares closely with the Cindy James and Blair Adams cases. I will explain more about that in a second, but first let me give a run down of what happened in the Lam case. In 2013, a 21 year old Canadian college student named Elisa Lam left her Canadian home and ended up in L.A. For reasons not totally known, she wanted to tour the west coast of the U.S. and even called it her "west coast tour" on her personal blog. She took buses and trains to get to California and finally ended up at the famous Cecil Hotel in L.A. near Skid Row. For those not familiar, it is an old hotel built in the 1920's that Richard Ramirez ("Night stalker") resided during 12 of the murders he committed back in the 80's. It is also the last place Elizabeth Short (Black Dahlia) stayed before she was found murdered. There have also been other murders and suicides at the hotel over the decades. Elisa called her parents and told them she was leaving the hotel and heading to the next stop on her trip. She was scheduled to check out of the Cecil on Jan 31, but never appeared on the checkout date. Her parents called the police and the search began. Police found nothing after a search of her room and the case sort of went cold for a short while. Then a few weeks later residents of the hotel began complaining about the water pressure and others complained about having a weird taste and color. The maintenance crew went to the roof and checked the water tanks. Inside one of the tanks, they found Elisa's decomposing body. A bit later the security camera footage from the hotel was released to the media and it showed Elisa inside an elevator shortly before she disappeared. While in the elevator, she was acting very strangely. She entered the elevator, pressed the buttons, but the door wouldn't shut. She kept pressing the buttons, then peeking her head outside as if she was looking for someone. Then she hid in the corner of the elevator as if she was afraid of something. Finally, she exited and then went out into the hall and began waving her arms around in a random motion, almost as if performing a strange dance. It also appeared as if she might have been talking to someone out of the shot of the camera, but that's unconfirmed. You can see the video for yourself here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM Now what does this have to do with Blair Adams or Cindy James? In case it isn't obvious, I think all three of these cases are not mysteries at all. Let me explain. When I first watched the Elisa Lam elevator video I said to myself "that poor girl is in the middle of a bi-polar crisis." I then did some more digging and it turns out that she said on her social media page that she was indeed bi-polar and just recently had to drop some classes because she had "relapsed." She was also on several medications which were found at autopsy (the autopsy found no illegal drugs, in case you're wondering). How she ended up in the water tank on the roof is a mystery. The roof was protected by an alarm and a locked door. However, considering that there was graffiti on the roof, it is evident that the "security" wasn't very effective. Also, the roof was accessible by the fire escape stairway and it wouldn't have been that difficult for an able bodied person to make it up there. And considering Lam's strange behavior, it isn't too much of a stretch to assume she might made her way to the fire escape at some point. Whether he death was a suicide or an accident is impossible to tell for sure. It is possible she had no intention of suicide and drowned accidentally after entering the water tank for reasons known only to herself. Considering she was psychotic at the time of her death, then the scenario of her stripping naked and jumping in the tank would not be considered "odd." Whether suicide or accident, it is obvious her mental state led to her death. I feel Elisa's case is similar to the James and Adams cases because of the mental health aspect. I think Cindy was probably suffering from DID or Munchausen's and I think Blair Adams was a schizophrenic and quite psychotic during his trip. I think Cindy committed an elaborate suicide and I think it's possible that Elisa Lam committed suicide in such a way as to bring attention to her case after her death as well. For instance, Elisa set her Tumblr account to update itself after her death and some suspect she knew she would be dead. I am not sure how I feel about a motion picture based on her case being released. I feel we are sort of ignoring the mentally ill by making it seem as if these cases all have some sinister or paranormal explanation. Bi-polar (especially Type I) is no laughing matter and there needs to be more awareness of the disorder and other disorders than can result in psychotic episodes.

06-03-2015, 12:15 PM	#4
mozartpc27 Vigilante Logician Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 09, 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 924	Never heard of the Elisa Lam case before. I'd need time to research before I could comment fully, but certainly both the Blair Adams case and the Cindy James case have always both struck me as very disturbed people doing very disturbed things.
	__________________ "You can't say the words that the rock makes you feel like." - Patty Johnson

06-04-2015, 02:09 AM	#11
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	Even if you can get past the alarms that were supposed to go off, and the difficulty of replacing the lid, there's the issue of how difficult it was to reach the tanks in the first place. Workers had to use a ladder to get to them. There's also the strange issue of some of the elevator footage is missing and such.
	Last edited by wiseguy182; 06-04-2015 at 03:08 AM.

06-03-2015, 11:26 AM	#2
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	Those are 3 complex cases that can't be solved that easily. I'm very uncomfortable with the notion of labeling Elisa as "psychotic" because of the elevator video. I've said this repeatedly, but her movements in the elevator definitely appear to be because the elevator wasn't working properly. The door didn't close when it was supposed to, it didn't move when it was supposed to, etc. As far as the water tank goes, the lid was very heavy and certainly couldn't have been moved and replaced by the wiry Lam. Therefore, we can definitely rule out "suicide for attention".

06-03-2015, 07:08 PM	#8
TheCars1986 #VLSKMS Forum Fanatic Join Date: Nov 22, 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 8,606	It's pretty obvious that it was a suicide or at the very least an accident. There really isn't anything mysterious about it at all. A woman, with mental disorders, checks into a famous hotel with a morbid reputation, is seen acting very strange on an elevator video (that's not a woman trying to get the doors to close), and winds up dead shortly after. The biggest red flags: she specifically called her parents to tell them she was checking out of the hotel coincidentally the day she dies, and she previously had set her Tumblr account to update immediately after she died.

06-03-2015, 09:52 PM	#9
WishfulDreamer Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 01, 2009 Location: L.A. Posts: 3,868	I have to disagree about Blair Adams. He was killed by a violent blow to the stomach. Even if he was psychotic, he did not kill himself. I think Elisa Lam committed suicide. It's a tragic case, and I admit that when it first happened I immediately wondered if it was foul play because of the area and the security barriers she needed to pass. However, after reviewing things and realizing how lax the security was and her past history, I think she did it to herself. I don't rule out an accident, either.

06-04-2015, 01:15 AM	#10
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,068	A girl on Unsolved Mysteries who ran off a cliff in the middle of the night was determined to have suffered some sort of mental crisis.

06-04-2015, 01:29 PM	#15
88keys Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 24, 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 326	I think Elisa Liam was psychotic or having some sort of episode and she accidentally killed herself. I mean, to me, that seems like the most likely scenario. I find it hard to believe that someone was chasing her and was never caught on camera. Also, it seems like it would be more difficult for someone to haul her up a ladder and over the rail than for her to climb up there herself. I agree it's a really bizarre and fascinating case. I think it's less mysterious than the other two you mentioned, though.