Vicki Lawrence - Taking All The Laughs?

[jayman75]

Early in 2015 I cancelled my DirecTV, and have been doing some streaming options, plus catching up on DVDs. I'm currently in the last season of my "Mama's Family" complete series... so just a few episodes before Tiffany Thelma Harper is born.

I have watched nearly all the episodes, and I have noticed the change in Mama's character from the first two seasons through the remainder of the series. It's been discussed repeatedly that when going to syndication, Mama's character toned down a bit and was not nearly as mean.

However, I've noticed that most of the punch lines come from Mama herself. Yes, Vint, Naomi, Iola and Bubba get their occasional laughs, but the needle definitely leans more toward Mama getting all the jokes.

I bring this up because it's often said that Carol Burnett wanted her cast (including Vicki) to all get equal laughs. Carol wasn't the star of every skit, which let others show off their talents.

However, coming from TCBS to MF, it seems Vicki still controlled the lines, and gave herself the most laughs.

Has anyone else noticed this? It's obviously not a major discussion after so many years and all, but in watching all the episodes in a concentrated time, it just seems that sometimes Mama should have let others show off, and not her.

Any thoughts?

['80sSitcoms]

Yes, there was definitely a change between NBC MF and syndicated MF. On NBC, the show was truly an ensemble, but in syndication it was clearly "Mama's show" with her family as supporting players.

Originally Posted by jayman75

I bring this up because it's often said that Carol Burnett wanted her cast (including Vicki) to all get equal laughs. Carol wasn't the star of every skit, which let others show off their talents.

That's an interesting point, something I hadn't thought of before. However, if you look at the "Family" sketches, Eunice is clearly the center star of those, with Mama and Ed and the relatives as supporting players. So, since MF is rooted in the "Family" sketches, one could say this is just going back to the roots of how those sketches were done (although obviously they departed from that format on NBC, where MF was an ensemble cast).

Originally Posted by jayman75

However, coming from TCBS to MF, it seems Vicki still controlled the lines, and gave herself the most laughs.

Well, we have to keep in mind Vicki didn't write any episodes, and she wasn't credited as a "creative consultant" or "producer" of any type, so I don't know how much truth there may be in that observation. If you will recall though, in Beverly Archer's interview on the complete series set, she says she wrote a script starring Vint & Naomi but producer Rick Hawkins rejected it, telling her it wouldn't work because "Mama's not in every scene. What's the name of the show? 'Mama's Family' " (one could say the name of the show is "Mama's Family", like the NBC years suggest, but I digress).

I find it a little odd he said that because his scripts don't all contain Mama "in every scene". Oh, well...I wish Beverly's script had survived and that the pages could have been scanned as a "special feature" to see/read on the DVD set.

Maybe part of the reason seasons 3-6 star Vicki center stage for nearly every episode stems from something Rick says in one of his interviews on the set. He points out that Vicki was SO talented, and amazing on the Burnett show, that here with her own vehicle, MF, he felt she was finally getting her justice in starring in her own series and being center stage to show off all her talent. Yet, it's interesting he says that when we see that MF on NBC was, again, an ensemble cast, and Mama didn't become "center stage" with her at the helm of the show until syndication.

Yes, there are lots of interesting things about all this.

[tlc38tlc38]

I think it worked best for the show for Mama to be the one getting most of the laughs. That being said, I also think the laughs were pretty equal. Each character always had their time to shine.

[quincywagstaff]

If the NBC episodes had more of an ensemble feel than the syndication episodes the reason may be that the NBC cast was much larger than in syndication (too large I think many would argue). Suggesting that Vicki was "controlling the lines" like some prima donna at the expense of the other cast just isn't supported by the facts. Yes, Mama appears in most scenes, but the syndication cast has a lot more on-screen time than the NBC shows. Finally, the fact that all of the folks interviewed for the DVDs were universal in describing their time on Mama's Family as a wonderful experience, comparing the atmosphere to being part of a "family". If Vicki was acting like a star around the set, I can't imagine it would have been a particularly pleasant experience for the cast and crew.

[tlc38tlc38]

Originally Posted by Alan Brady's Hair

I think that when it came to just reading lines funny, Vicki Lawrence was better than Carol Burnett.

I've often thought this too but was too afraid to say it because Carol is considered such a legend.

Basically, here's what I think:

Carol was brilliant at doing many different sketch characters and Vicki WAS mama. Vicki played mama effortless---if she did have to put effort into it, it doesn't show. Vicki is so believable as mama.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by quincywagstaff

If the NBC episodes had more of an ensemble feel than the syndication episodes the reason may be that the NBC cast was much larger than in syndication (too large I think many would argue).

They had more of an ensemble feel because the episodes were balanced between the various family members. "The Return of Leonard Oates" starred Naomi, "Positive Thinking" starred Eunice, etc. Even shows that centered on certain characters sometimes were quite ensemble shows, such as "Mama's Silver", "Double Standard", "Naomi and the Stork", "Obscene Call", etc.

However, in the syndicated years, episodes that were "about" other family members, such as Vint with "Workman's Holiday", Naomi with "Naomi's New Position", Iola with "Dependence Day", Bubba with "Bedtime for Bubba", actually starred Mama and her role/reaction to the storyline instead of focusing on the main character as the star of those episodes.

Originally Posted by quincywagstaff

Suggesting that Vicki was "controlling the lines" like some prima donna at the expense of the other cast just isn't supported by the facts. ...the fact that all of the folks interviewed for the DVDs were universal in describing their time on Mama's Family as a wonderful experience, comparing the atmosphere to being part of a "family". If Vicki was acting like a star around the set, I can't imagine it would have been a particularly pleasant experience for the cast and crew.

Exactly.

[jayman75]

Again, I'm not stating that Vicki was a "prima donna," or knocking people around and taking the best jokes.

It just seems to me, after watching the entire series, that there could have been more opportunities for the co-stars to shine a bit more. There was never a Vint/Naomi major story line in an episode that I can recall, where Mama took a step back. We never saw Bubba off in a college situation - it always came back to the home.

Perhaps it was a budgeting thing, or just how things worked when the series was filmed. Obviously I like the show, or I would not have spent the money to own the complete DVD series. It's just an observation I found, and wondered if it was just me.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by jayman75

There was never a Vint/Naomi major story line in an episode that I can recall, where Mama took a step back.

The closest we came to that was "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do", where Naomi moves out on Vint. It would have been nice if they had shown a scene in Luann Fayette's trashy trailer, lol. The NBC years were such ensemble episodes that I'm sure if that had been filmed back in the NBC years they would have had such a scene (think "The Return of Leonard Oates", where there's a scene of just Naomi and Leonard at the Food Circus; back then they used to have scenes that didn't have Mama in them).

Originally Posted by jayman75

Perhaps it was a budgeting thing, or just how things worked when the series was filmed. Obviously I like the show, or I would not have spent the money to own the complete DVD series. It's just an observation I found, and wondered if it was just me.

I don't think it was a budgeting thing, I think it was the vision the producers had when they "re-tooled" the show; with syndication Rick Hawkins made sure the writers featured Mama heavily. It was now to be essentially "MAMA'S family", no longer "Mama's FAMILY" (as far as character vs. ensemble emphasis is concerned).

[glickmam]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

Maybe part of the reason seasons 3-6 star Vicki center stage for nearly every episode stems from something Rick says in one of his interviews on the set. He points out that Vicki was SO talented, and amazing on the Burnett show, that here with her own vehicle, MF, he felt she was finally getting her justice in starring in her own series and being center stage to show off all her talent. Yet, it's interesting he says that when we see that MF on NBC was, again, an ensemble cast, and Mama didn't become "center stage" with her at the helm of the show until syndication.

Another factor that could have influenced Mr. Hawkins' rationale could have been that he felt that viewers are morons, and that unless Mama was included and focused on in every episode, per the title being "MAMA's Family" as he felt it was, viewers would not stay tuned in and would instead change the channel to something else. He also could have felt that the ensemble nature of the NBC years was too "intellectual" for average viewers to understand and that it may have contributed to the show's cancellation in the first place.

[Anna Karenina]

Interesting topic!

[stevea]

Originally Posted by tlc38tlc38

I've often thought this too but was too afraid to say it because Carol is considered such a legend.

Basically, here's what I think:

Carol was brilliant at doing many different sketch characters and Vicki WAS mama. Vicki played mama effortless---if she did have to put effort into it, it doesn't show. Vicki is so believable as mama.

How true! Check out all those MeTV promos with Vicki--they're great! Thanks to the previous poster for unearthing this thread...

[Anna Karenina]

Originally Posted by stevea

How true! Check out all those MeTV promos with Vicki--they're great! Thanks to the previous poster for unearthing this thread...

You are most welcome.

[MichaelKeith]

I love this show in all it's forms and seasons and all of the characters except maybe Buzz and Sonja. Vicki Lawrence is great in all the new METV promos and I just saw another new one last evening. They just don't make shows like this anymore.