Lilith? The Half-Tamed Shrew? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Dr. Lilith Sternin · 03-18-2002, 07:28 PM

After giving much thought to the said topic, "Who Has Their Men More Whipped?", I've concluded that Lilith is the half-tamed shrew. It's like a modern warped version of Shakespeare's comedy. Depending on which way you look at it, she changed a lot from when she was first introduced; yet, she still remains headstrong and doesn't yield to her husband in that respect. *pauses* Let me attempt to convey what I mean.

In Abnormal Psychology, she is adamant in going against everything Frasier says. They both irritate each other to no end. Lilith possesses those same woman lib. qualities that Katherine clings on to throughout most of TOTS. Sam and Diane remind me much of Bianca and Hortensio in the respect they feel the need to help Frasier find happiness. Of course, that's not the same plot as TOTS, but as the eldest, Katherine must marry before Bianca does, therefore finding her a suitor is the main objective. Too bad Katherine is a complete shrew and doesn't bow down to men. (Much like Lilith!)

Going back to Frasier and Lilith... once Frasier takes charge and says "I'm going to kiss you now!" Lilith totally melts.

On some level, he "tamed" her.

However...

"I am ashamed that women are so simple. To offer war where they should kneel for peace, or seek for rule, supremacy, and sway, when they are bound to serve, love, and obey. Why are our body's soft, and weak, and smooth? Unapt to toil and trouble in the world, but that our soft conditions and our hearts should well agree with our external parts? Come, come you froward and unable worms, my mind hath been as big as one of yours -- my heart as great, my reason haply more, to bandy word for word and frown for frown. But now I see our lances are but straws, our strength as weak, our weakness past compare, that seeming to be most which we indeed least are. Then vail your stomachs, for it is no boot, and place your hands below your husband's foot. In token of which duty, if he please, my hand is ready, may it do him ease."

Yeah, uh, NO. I don't think we'd ever see Lilith saying anything along THOSE lines. That's where the half-taming comes in. I view her as the modern day Katharine. She was tamed to the point where she could actually SURVIVE in a relationship, yet she still kept enough of her over-bearing personality to keep Frasier in check and keep audiences in hysterics.

What do you think? Is Lilith a half-tamed shrew?

Samsgirl xo · 03-19-2002, 06:21 PM

yes i agree with you, frasier did change her but she didnt let herself down to any mans level.. i cant wait till her episodes start coming on regularly on nick at nite.. during there run, i miss the sam and diane.. during this run, i missed lilith.. and so on! bleh im a nut! did you ever see her on broadway? also is she working on anything else at the moment right now....

Dr. Lilith Sternin · 03-19-2002, 11:05 PM

I saw her in Chicago, November of 1996. It was right after it first opened. I was so little... only 12! It was my first true Broadway experience. Beforehand, I had seen Cats (when I was really little), but Chicago just sealed my fate. I had always wanted to be a performer, but I was determined to pursue a career in musical theatre after that experience!

Anyway, Bebe isn't currently in anything. I hope she is soon, though! My opportunities to see her live again keep passing me by! I was supposed to see her in Everett Beekin, but the last 4/5 NYC trips I've planned all fell through! In August, my friend and I were supposed to go for a few days, and her parents, brother, and cousin got in this HUGE accident several days before we were supposed to leave. Her cousin was killed and her mother was in a coma for a week. OBVIOUSLY that trip was CANCELED! So, I just kept trying to get into the city after that, and everythings been falling through. I was SUPPOSED to go to the Tony's as a birthday present, but I don't see that happening this year.

(Long story...)

So, if I hear of Bebe doing any shows in the near future, I'll be sure to post, ASAP.

I can't wait for more Lilith episodes to start airing, either! YAY!

They're NOT skipping over Dinner at 8-ish! I'm very pleased.

03-18-2002, 07:28 PM	#1
Dr. Lilith Sternin Ice Cube in Heels Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 31, 2002 Posts: 523	Lilith? The Half-Tamed Shrew? After giving much thought to the said topic, "Who Has Their Men More Whipped?", I've concluded that Lilith is the half-tamed shrew. It's like a modern warped version of Shakespeare's comedy. Depending on which way you look at it, she changed a lot from when she was first introduced; yet, she still remains headstrong and doesn't yield to her husband in that respect. pauses Let me attempt to convey what I mean. In Abnormal Psychology, she is adamant in going against everything Frasier says. They both irritate each other to no end. Lilith possesses those same woman lib. qualities that Katherine clings on to throughout most of TOTS. Sam and Diane remind me much of Bianca and Hortensio in the respect they feel the need to help Frasier find happiness. Of course, that's not the same plot as TOTS, but as the eldest, Katherine must marry before Bianca does, therefore finding her a suitor is the main objective. Too bad Katherine is a complete shrew and doesn't bow down to men. (Much like Lilith!) Going back to Frasier and Lilith... once Frasier takes charge and says "I'm going to kiss you now!" Lilith totally melts. On some level, he "tamed" her. However... "I am ashamed that women are so simple. To offer war where they should kneel for peace, or seek for rule, supremacy, and sway, when they are bound to serve, love, and obey. Why are our body's soft, and weak, and smooth? Unapt to toil and trouble in the world, but that our soft conditions and our hearts should well agree with our external parts? Come, come you froward and unable worms, my mind hath been as big as one of yours -- my heart as great, my reason haply more, to bandy word for word and frown for frown. But now I see our lances are but straws, our strength as weak, our weakness past compare, that seeming to be most which we indeed least are. Then vail your stomachs, for it is no boot, and place your hands below your husband's foot. In token of which duty, if he please, my hand is ready, may it do him ease." Yeah, uh, NO. I don't think we'd ever see Lilith saying anything along THOSE lines. That's where the half-taming comes in. I view her as the modern day Katharine. She was tamed to the point where she could actually SURVIVE in a relationship, yet she still kept enough of her over-bearing personality to keep Frasier in check and keep audiences in hysterics. What do you think? Is Lilith a half-tamed shrew?
	__________________ "Musical theatre -- it's totally American and when it's good, it's like nothing else." ~Bebe Neuwirth </center> Lilith: I mapped out our dominant and recessive traits on a genome square, applied Mendel's laws, allowed for anomolies, and concluded that you are the best biological choice. Frasier: I see. Well, enticed as I am by your honeyed words, I'm gonna need some kissin'. Lilith: Frasier, don't misunderstand. I'm not proposing any change in our relationship. Frasier: Would we sleep together? Lilith: I thought we'd freeze your sperm. Frasier: Is that a yes or a no? Lilith: Natural fertilization isn't practical. I'd have to fly to Seattle every time I ovulate. Frasier: Right, okay. So then, your plan is for me to visit some local doctor, freeze my essence, and then bring it home with you. Lilith: Correct. I'll take mine to go! Last edited by Dr. Lilith Sternin; 03-18-2002 at 07:32 PM.

03-19-2002, 06:21 PM	#2
Samsgirl xo I luv my hitachi vcr Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 14, 2002 Posts: 761	yes i agree with you, frasier did change her but she didnt let herself down to any mans level.. i cant wait till her episodes start coming on regularly on nick at nite.. during there run, i miss the sam and diane.. during this run, i missed lilith.. and so on! bleh im a nut! did you ever see her on broadway? also is she working on anything else at the moment right now....

03-19-2002, 11:05 PM	#3
Dr. Lilith Sternin Ice Cube in Heels Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 31, 2002 Posts: 523	I saw her in Chicago, November of 1996. It was right after it first opened. I was so little... only 12! It was my first true Broadway experience. Beforehand, I had seen Cats (when I was really little), but Chicago just sealed my fate. I had always wanted to be a performer, but I was determined to pursue a career in musical theatre after that experience! Anyway, Bebe isn't currently in anything. I hope she is soon, though! My opportunities to see her live again keep passing me by! I was supposed to see her in Everett Beekin, but the last 4/5 NYC trips I've planned all fell through! In August, my friend and I were supposed to go for a few days, and her parents, brother, and cousin got in this HUGE accident several days before we were supposed to leave. Her cousin was killed and her mother was in a coma for a week. OBVIOUSLY that trip was CANCELED! So, I just kept trying to get into the city after that, and everythings been falling through. I was SUPPOSED to go to the Tony's as a birthday present, but I don't see that happening this year. (Long story...) So, if I hear of Bebe doing any shows in the near future, I'll be sure to post, ASAP. I can't wait for more Lilith episodes to start airing, either! YAY! They're NOT skipping over Dinner at 8-ish! I'm very pleased.