Madalyn Murray O'Hair...again - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

wiseguy182 · 12-06-2014, 09:18 AM

When Vanity Fair Confidential debuts and airs their piece on this case, it will be the sixth (!!) true crime to show to devote an episode to her. (Her son and granddaughter, who were murdered along with her, always get significantly less mention). I have seen this case so many times that I could tell you everything you could possibly want to know about it, and then some. To put this into perspective, when a local radio station recently had as their morning brainteaser "What was abolished in schools in 1963", I immediately knew the answer. I didn't win (though I didn't particularly care since the prize wasn't appealing to me, whatever it was) and I suspect I lost to some doofus who sat by the phone and radio and looked up the answer on the internet. But I digress.

Now what they need to do is focus on just how unlikeable this loud, abrasive, foul-mouthed, cantankerous old bat really was because that's what makes for an appealing program. I've always had mixed feelings about Madalyn. On one hand, I feel it's important that she be allowed her opinions and ability to discuss them and I think a lot of the things that happened to her were very unfortunate. On the other side of the coin, I get the impression she was near impossible to get along with and was liked by very few.

But whatever your feelings about her are, there is one undeniable fact: she made good television. Her fearlessness and willingness to debate and not back down is a good reason Donohue always had her on sweeps week. There was never a dull moment with her around.

So when the Vanity Fair Confidential piece arrives and rehashes the same old story, let's see some fights! Her legendary battles with The "Christers" as she called them. Bonus points if they can unearth some of her public access stuff as that's even more rare.

Incidentally, I have somewhere, buried in my collection of stuff I have yet to watch, an appearance by her on Donohue way back when he was just on an affiliate channel and before he went nationwide. It's black and white and probably from the early 70's, if not, older.

wiseguy182 · 02-12-2015, 04:12 AM

Well, I must say, Vanity Fair Confidential delivered. Not only did they have a lot of pictures of Madalyn and her family I had never seen before, but they had several details on the case I had never heard mentioned in any of the other programs on the case.

-Madalyn's son Jon had the opportunity to get help, but passed it up. In the process of Waters ordering the $600,000 to be transferred to New Zealand, then back to the U.S., the money got froze in a New Jersey bank. Waters (or one of his associates) accompanied Jon on a flight from Austin, TX to New Jersey to settle the issue. Jon could have summoned for help at this time, but chose not to. It was said that he and Waters were getting along (well, as much as can be expected between a captor/hostage relationship), which carries over into the next point...

-Stated that Madalyn's combatitive nature may have been what got everyone killed. I'm not sure if Waters had intended to kill them all along (possibly not since they were held captive about a month). Waters and Jon were getting along, as I mentioned above. But Madalyn frequently insulted Waters and kept trying to lure him into heated debates, which may have set him off.

-We also learned more about the actual killings and sequence of deaths. Another program had theorized that they killed Jon first as he was the man of the group and of significant size, and they wanted him out of the way first for those reasons. However, in the Vanity Fair Confidential piece, we learn that Robin was actually killed first as one of the perps raped her, then shot her in the head.

They transferred Madalyn and Jon to another seedy motel, where they strangled Jon to death with a belt. It was stated that Jon put up a good fight and had nearly warded off all 3 of his attackers, but eventually succumbed. Madalyn was killed in the same fashion.

I always thought one of the saddest aspects of this case was knowing that since everyone was in that cramped motel room, that they had to witness their loved ones being killed in such horrific fashion before meeting their own demise. It must have been very painful for Madalyn to have to sit through the murders of her son and and granddaughter.

unsolved1981 · 02-12-2015, 10:43 AM

Did they mention if the embezzlement of her member's funds was true? I looked this case up again and it wasn't clear to me if she was in fact guilty of this as some of the members of her group thought at the time. I guess she had been accused of it earlier which is one reason (among several) she had poor relations with the other atheist groups.

wiseguy182 · 02-13-2015, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unsolved1981

Did they mention if the embezzlement of her member's funds was true? I looked this case up again and it wasn't clear to me if she was in fact guilty of this as some of the members of her group thought at the time. I guess she had been accused of it earlier which is one reason (among several) she had poor relations with the other atheist groups.

No, Waters was the one who was embezzling. He had stolen several thousand dollars from the business. Madalyn found out about it and fired him. She went to the police, who couldn't have cared less (like they didn't care when they disappeared, distressingly enough). So she attacked him in the company newsletter and Waters sought retaliation. He had the money converted into gold coins, which was hilaroiusly stolen from *him* a few days later.

I must admit I got a chuckle out of Donohue when he said, after finding out the O'Hairs died, something to this effect: 'I then did something Maralyn wouldn't have wanted me to do...I said a prayer."

MegtheEgg86 · 04-05-2015, 08:58 PM

On a personal level, I feel Ms. O'Hair was a vitriolic, hateful woman--and that would stand no matter her personal religion or philosophy. That didn't just happen in a vacuum, however. I suppose that's part of the reason her murder particularly saddens me. After having read quite a bit about her life, I think she suffered from a lot of pain. To know she was killed in such a terrifying, brutal manner on top of all this is pretty heartbreaking.

Awsi Dooger · 04-20-2015, 05:28 PM

Surprising episode. I originally decided not to tape it because I assumed I knew all the details. That wasn't close to true. I'm glad I stumbled upon a replay midway through. At that point I realized that this version was far superior to any of the predecessors.

Vanity Fair is one of the best new shows on the network. They've whiffed maybe only once, IMO.

12-06-2014, 09:18 AM	#1
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	Madalyn Murray O'Hair...again When Vanity Fair Confidential debuts and airs their piece on this case, it will be the sixth (!!) true crime to show to devote an episode to her. (Her son and granddaughter, who were murdered along with her, always get significantly less mention). I have seen this case so many times that I could tell you everything you could possibly want to know about it, and then some. To put this into perspective, when a local radio station recently had as their morning brainteaser "What was abolished in schools in 1963", I immediately knew the answer. I didn't win (though I didn't particularly care since the prize wasn't appealing to me, whatever it was) and I suspect I lost to some doofus who sat by the phone and radio and looked up the answer on the internet. But I digress. Now what they need to do is focus on just how unlikeable this loud, abrasive, foul-mouthed, cantankerous old bat really was because that's what makes for an appealing program. I've always had mixed feelings about Madalyn. On one hand, I feel it's important that she be allowed her opinions and ability to discuss them and I think a lot of the things that happened to her were very unfortunate. On the other side of the coin, I get the impression she was near impossible to get along with and was liked by very few. But whatever your feelings about her are, there is one undeniable fact: she made good television. Her fearlessness and willingness to debate and not back down is a good reason Donohue always had her on sweeps week. There was never a dull moment with her around. So when the Vanity Fair Confidential piece arrives and rehashes the same old story, let's see some fights! Her legendary battles with The "Christers" as she called them. Bonus points if they can unearth some of her public access stuff as that's even more rare. Incidentally, I have somewhere, buried in my collection of stuff I have yet to watch, an appearance by her on Donohue way back when he was just on an affiliate channel and before he went nationwide. It's black and white and probably from the early 70's, if not, older.
	__________________ "Dottie had said, in the event I got transferred that she was not interested in going with me. I wasn't expecting her to go with me. And wouldn't have even wanted her to I guess."

04-05-2015, 08:58 PM	#5
MegtheEgg86 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Jun 19, 2008 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 5,156	On a personal level, I feel Ms. O'Hair was a vitriolic, hateful woman--and that would stand no matter her personal religion or philosophy. That didn't just happen in a vacuum, however. I suppose that's part of the reason her murder particularly saddens me. After having read quite a bit about her life, I think she suffered from a lot of pain. To know she was killed in such a terrifying, brutal manner on top of all this is pretty heartbreaking.
	__________________ "Why is she lying?, it makes me wonder. What is she hiding?, it makes me wonder." Go Vols!

02-12-2015, 04:12 AM	#2
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	Well, I must say, Vanity Fair Confidential delivered. Not only did they have a lot of pictures of Madalyn and her family I had never seen before, but they had several details on the case I had never heard mentioned in any of the other programs on the case. -Madalyn's son Jon had the opportunity to get help, but passed it up. In the process of Waters ordering the $600,000 to be transferred to New Zealand, then back to the U.S., the money got froze in a New Jersey bank. Waters (or one of his associates) accompanied Jon on a flight from Austin, TX to New Jersey to settle the issue. Jon could have summoned for help at this time, but chose not to. It was said that he and Waters were getting along (well, as much as can be expected between a captor/hostage relationship), which carries over into the next point... -Stated that Madalyn's combatitive nature may have been what got everyone killed. I'm not sure if Waters had intended to kill them all along (possibly not since they were held captive about a month). Waters and Jon were getting along, as I mentioned above. But Madalyn frequently insulted Waters and kept trying to lure him into heated debates, which may have set him off. -We also learned more about the actual killings and sequence of deaths. Another program had theorized that they killed Jon first as he was the man of the group and of significant size, and they wanted him out of the way first for those reasons. However, in the Vanity Fair Confidential piece, we learn that Robin was actually killed first as one of the perps raped her, then shot her in the head. They transferred Madalyn and Jon to another seedy motel, where they strangled Jon to death with a belt. It was stated that Jon put up a good fight and had nearly warded off all 3 of his attackers, but eventually succumbed. Madalyn was killed in the same fashion. I always thought one of the saddest aspects of this case was knowing that since everyone was in that cramped motel room, that they had to witness their loved ones being killed in such horrific fashion before meeting their own demise. It must have been very painful for Madalyn to have to sit through the murders of her son and and granddaughter.

02-12-2015, 10:43 AM	#3
unsolved1981 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 28, 2012 Posts: 166	Did they mention if the embezzlement of her member's funds was true? I looked this case up again and it wasn't clear to me if she was in fact guilty of this as some of the members of her group thought at the time. I guess she had been accused of it earlier which is one reason (among several) she had poor relations with the other atheist groups.

04-20-2015, 05:28 PM	#6
Awsi Dooger Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 18, 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 1,537	Surprising episode. I originally decided not to tape it because I assumed I knew all the details. That wasn't close to true. I'm glad I stumbled upon a replay midway through. At that point I realized that this version was far superior to any of the predecessors. Vanity Fair is one of the best new shows on the network. They've whiffed maybe only once, IMO.