Hae Min Lee / Adnan Masud Syed - Guilty or Innocent?

[TracyLynnS]

Has anyone been listening to these podcasts?

http://serialpodcast.org/

You can also listen to them on the YT channel "Serial Podcast".

It's about the 1999 murder of high school student Hae Min Lee and the conviction of her teenage ex-boyfriend. Her body was discovered in a shallow grave in Leakin Park, (the same place they think Oliver Munson may have been put by his killer.)

I'm on podcast 3, out of 9 so far. They are published each week.

It raises some very interesting questions about the boyfriend's guilt. Many people involved are interviewed and actual police interview recordings are included. The boyfriend had only a 25 minute window to commit the murder, drive to a park that (allegedly he) and none of their friends had ever been to, dig a grave, bury the body, then get back to school in time for soccer practice.

I don't normally like to listen to podcasts but I'm finding this one to be very interesting.

More info here:

http://www.baltimoremagazine.net/201...in-new-podcast

http://chamspage.blogspot.com/2010/1...timore-md.html

[TracyLynnS]

The series regarding Hae and Adnan concluded. Did anyone else follow this?

I found the final podcast to be anticlimactic and disappointing, with no real answers to the most of the questions posed, and not much hope for uncovering anything else or coming to a definite conclusion. Neither the original investigation, trial, nor the podcast investigators ever found any physical evidence linking Adnan to Hae's murder.

The dead suspect that the innocence project put forward isn't likely involved, imo, because Adnan's accomplice Jay knew where Hae's car was parked and had no connection to the man. There are other possible suspects the innocence project is looking into, but they can't be named, since they are still living.

I can't make up my mind on who really killed Hae, but during most of the podcasts, I got the feeling that Jay was either responsible or had a lot more involvement than just helping cover for Adnan. He had plenty of time to commit the crime and cover it up, but Adnan only had a short window of minutes because he was in school and then had soccer practice.

I got the feeling that Jay may have liked Hae, but she possibly rebuffed him (she was in a relationship with coworker), and he went into a rage and killed her, but it wasn't planned.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

I love that you're commenting on this! Just listened to the first four episodes and I'm hooked!

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

I love that you're commenting on this! Just listened to the first four episodes and I'm hooked!

Yep, it's very good, imo.

Have you gotten to the episode where the reporter talks to an attorney to get her opinion on some aspects of the case? She found her information to be enlightening (as did I) regarding the behavior of people involved. Did you share her opinions or have a different take?

[LooksLikeCRicci]

That's the next episode. I'm having BIG problems with this conviction already. I'm curious to see if my opinion will change in the next six episodes.

[nohwheregirl]

I've been following the podcast as well. I agree that Adnan should NOT be in prison based on the evidence presented at trial, but I am not convinced he is innocent. I really want to believe him, but the fact remains that Hae Min Lee is dead and Jay just doesn't have a really strong motive to kill her on his own.

That said, we know that Jay is a liar based on his own statements and the statements of many of his friends. Did you guys read Jay's interview from last week? Here it is. He admits that he perjured himself by saying that he first saw Hae's body at his grandmother's house, not Best Buy, and that he lied on purposed so his grandmother wouldn't get dragged into the case.

I also agree that it's unlikely the potential serial killer guy was involved, but the point that the Innocence Project lawyer made about the "big picture" is that introducing this new suspect could get the court to allow for DNA testing. If it's not Jay or Adnan, my mind will be blown!

Such a frustrating case - multiple versions of the story, 2 narrators, both unreliable!

[LooksLikeCRicci]

I'm not quite finished with the podcast. Life happens and it's easier to listen while I'm driving, I've found.

That being said, I'm still towing the line on this one. I think I have three episodes left. I DID hear about Jay's interview and I'm waiting to finish the series before I read it... I agree about the unreliable narrators! I WANT to believe Adnan, but then every once in a while, he drops a sentence that makes me pause.

Despite those misgivings, I still think the evidence was minimal.

[TracyLynnS]

I have similar feelings as both of you. I don't think there was enough evidence to convict Adnan yet every once in a while he would say something in the interview that did make me think he was involved in her murder.

Can you imagine how frustrating it was for Sarah Koenig to have to conduct these interviews on that prison phone system that kept ending the call? She'd be asking questions, he was willing to talk, and then they'd get their 30 second warning and be disconnected. gah!

[LooksLikeCRicci]

As a former defense attorney, I can tell you that: yes, it happens and yes, it's hella annoying.

[biscuitgirl]

After listening to this podcast through twice and listening to various spoiler podcasts about Serial, I have to say I'm still on the fence. I agree with SK. I don't know if Adnan is truly innocent but I do agree he should not have been convicted. Hopefully the new DNA evidence will be enough to garner him a new trial. I agree that the entire case is very confusing and compelling, especially since Jay has basically admitted he lied on several occasions with authorities.

I have heard an interesting theory that supposedly Jay might have been cheating on his girlfriend Stephanie and Hae had gotten word of it and was going to confront Jay on this. It would give Jay a motive to kill Hae.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

I actually wondered if ADNAN and Stephanie had a thing and Jay found out and killed Hae in retaliation.

[TheCars1986]

I have not listened to this, but a lot of my friends on social media keep raving about it. Being from the Baltimore area, I remember some of the local coverage at the time. This podcast seems like it's selectively putting information out that would make people believe Syed is innocent, while ignoring other damning evidence against him. IIRC, Syed was initially focused on as the prime suspect because of his jealous attitude, and because LE could not find any one else with a motive to want Hae Min Lee dead. Tack on the fact that she was strangled, suggesting that the murder was very personal in nature, and also the testimony from Syed's friend, and I think Syed is right where he belongs. I know the friend's story has changed over and over, but why even implicate yourself and admit to helping bury her body if you wanted people to believe Syed was the murderer? It doesn't make sense to me. I don't see any reason as to why Syed's friend would lie and then include himself in that lie, and not to mention the fact that this friend didn't even know Hae Min Lee, I don't see how he could be the murderer.

[tarheelslim]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I have not listened to this, but a lot of my friends on social media keep raving about it. Being from the Baltimore area, I remember some of the local coverage at the time. This podcast seems like it's selectively putting information out that would make people believe Syed is innocent, while ignoring other damning evidence against him.

Believe me, these are real journalists making this show and they aren't shying away from anything. They pursue every legit avenue and when those are exhausted they check out rumors as well.

[tarheelslim]

I listened to the last episode this morning... it does seem like in the end Adnan probably did it. But as others have said, I don't know if there was really enough evidence that he should've been convicted.

The only alternative is that Jay did it on his own. And his story changed so much and so many times that I think that is possible... but more likely, he helped Adnan quite a bit and kept changing the story to minimize his role. Which is also difficult to believe, because his story puts him at the burial?

Like so many of these crimes, we will never know the truth unless whoever did it fesses up, which usually doesn't happen.

I found it strange that it became the most popular podcast - it seems as if a lot of people who don't normally follow true crime got really into it? I didn't find as addictive or mind-blowing as a lot of people seemed to.

[isotope]

Originally Posted by tarheelslim

I listened to the last episode this morning... it does seem like in the end Adnan probably did it. But as others have said, I don't know if there was really enough evidence that he should've been convicted.

The only alternative is that Jay did it on his own. And his story changed so much and so many times that I think that is possible... but more likely, he helped Adnan quite a bit and kept changing the story to minimize his role. Which is also difficult to believe, because his story puts him at the burial?

Like so many of these crimes, we will never know the truth unless whoever did it fesses up, which usually doesn't happen.

I found it strange that it became the most popular podcast - it seems as if a lot of people who don't normally follow true crime got really into it? I didn't find as addictive or mind-blowing as a lot of people seemed to.

Agree with a lot of that - you've also got to remember that when Jay implicated Syed in the murder he would have to have been confident that Adnan had no alibi for the time Hae disappeared (otherwise Jay has just essentially confessed to murder) - the only way he could have that confidence is if he was either with Adnan at the time Hae was killed, or he did not encounter Adnan until after Hae had been killed.

I also don't buy Adnan's story that he couldn't remember the day in question. This was a day in which a) the cops told him his ex had disappered; b) he lent his brand new cell phone (a big deal in 1999) and car to someone else; c) the last day before a blizzard closed the school down for a few days. Any of those events in and of themselves would be sufficient to make the day stick out in his mind.

That said, Jay's ever shifting story would appear to make the verdict unsafe and mean that the state failed to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt.

As to the podcast itself, I think it got its success due to SK being such a talented storyteller - and while I would hesitate to call her manipulative, she definitely did have a slant; both due to her personally liking Adnan, and the fact that the narrative of an innocent man unjustly imprisoned is probably more interesting as a story than the narrative of an unrepetent murderer doing justly deserved time.