The Holy Grail of cold cases! Jack the Ripper - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Guardian · 09-07-2014, 01:52 AM

Mods, forgive me. I know there is already a "cases that should have" thread, but this is way too big to be mixed with other cases. The Holy Grail of Unsolved Mysteries: Jack the Ripper has been SOLVED!

At least it sounds quite likely that it has. Hopefully it is ok to post this here. Check out this article. It seems pretty conclusive. While I can think of other possibilities to fit the info they found, this seems very likely to have been solved after 126 years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-murders.html

Guardian · 09-08-2014, 05:02 AM

No one has anything to comment on this? I have been freaking out since Saturday. This looks legit and is just awesome!

Mysteryphile · 09-08-2014, 10:57 AM

Well...what the dna proves is the suspect came into contact with that woman at some point. It doesn't prove that he was Jack the Ripper.

With that being said, I think its a huge coincidence that one of the suspects DNA just happened to end up on one of the murder victims (although it was on her shawl...not someplace like on her dress or underwear or somewhere more intimate)

What I'd like to know is...did this woman (can't remember who the article said it was) and this man know each other? If they did then there could be a completely benign reason why his dna was found on her shawl.

TracyLynnS · 09-08-2014, 05:48 PM

I refrained from commenting earlier because I have a controversial opinion.

This particular victim was Catherine Eddowes and the man they are claiming is Jack the Ripper has been identified as Polish immigrant Aaron Kosminski.

I have quite a few problems with information in that article. For one thing, the DM is a tabloid (which I confess to frequently reading lol). Another thing, the "article" is just a guise to plug this guy's book, which is being released tomorrow. IIRC, there have several books published claiming they had evidence that either this suspect or that was definitely Jack. A favorite theme seems to be that one of the royals was Jack. I think even as recently as the 90s, when we had DNA testing available, there was a book claiming Jack was duke or a prince.

The chain of evidence on that shawl is horrendous. It supposedly started out as a souvenir in an investigating officer's home, and was then passed down through his family. Then it made the rounds through other people's hands, storage, auction, back out of storage, etc.

Another is if that was her shawl, it's possible Kosminski was a client who left behind dna and she just didn't wash her clothing very frequently. She was a poor prostitute and this was 1888. IIRC, she was also an alcoholic. I doubt she had much opportunity or means to wash her clothing very often.

That being said. I'd like one of our UK members to give some facts on the following subject, if possible.

From what I understand from reading comments on news articles, there seems to be a lot of anti-polish sentiment in the UK right now. IMO, if that's the case, it really wouldn't be surprising for someone to pin the crime on a guy who's from the currently disliked ethnic group, rather than an Englishman.

UM_FAN_79 · 09-08-2014, 06:04 PM

I"ll have to take this story with a grain of salt. This same tabloid recently published a story revealing the true identity of the Zodiac Killer while plugging a new book at the same time. There was also a big story going around last year about a man named Tony Zerelli who claimed to know exactly what happened to Jimmy Hoffa…..but you have to buy the book to find out.

Awsi Dooger · 09-09-2014, 12:48 AM

Kosminski has always been my favorite among the named suspects. Well, by always I mean since 1990. I was visiting England that summer and happened to see a 2-part series on Jack the Ripper. Gave me the creeps. It focused on the royal angle, which was relatively new at the time.

I visited Whitechapel and took a Ripper tour. Big mistake. They actually had pictures of the final murder, the most gruesome one. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to shake that image. Then I bought a Ripper book. The following week I was in Dublin, renting a top room in a bed and breakfast for a few nights. Every time I heard creaks in the night I was thinking about Jack the Ripper. Couldn't sleep. Couldn't wait to return to Las Vegas and the relaxing world of sports betting.

I like the Kosminski angle partially because he doesn't have a medical background. That's a cheap focus, IMO. It takes very little skill to tear something apart as opposed to putting it together. The people who insist the Ripper had medical training remind me of all the goofs who dismiss anyone in the EAR-ONs case who didn't have a military connection.

Kosminski was also younger than the others, if I remember correctly. In most true crime cases I default to the younger guy or gal as perpetrator. He also was known to live nearby.

In reading the link a couple of days ago, there were two disturbing aspects. One, I hoped the author of the article didn't have a preconceived notion, that the physical evidence alone led to Kosminski. But that wasn't the case at all. I stopped and shook my head when the author conceded that he basically decided Kosminski had to be the Ripper and then set out to "prove" it.

Also, the person who did the DNA testing used techniques that are not well known and widely accepted. He bragged that he developed the new methods himself. What, specifically for this case? On the fly? I also didn't understand how a connection to a relative many generations removed could be deemed "perfect" without some type of further explanation. I assume that will be in the book.

I would guess that this is probably the correct solution. But it's hardly going to end the debate, and probably won't be much more than a blip. Others have already mentioned the chain of command issues, and the fact that a prostitute is hardly a loner whose shawl would contain physical evidence only from herself.

Besides, this case in an industry. Too many people have a stake in the industry continuing and flourishing. That type will reject any threat of a tame solution. It's like more recent cases, things like JFK and D.B. Cooper. Nobody wants the simple answer to be correct. On this forum my highest level of certainty is Richard Floyd McCoy as D.B. Cooper. To bet that case would be like stealing, far beyond buying AAPL once Steve Jobs returned. But there's such emotion and animosity and denial attached to the other side that they won't even allow McCoy specifics to be posted in the related Wikipedia page, as I've mentioned here.

XCalibur · 09-14-2014, 12:21 AM

How many different names have come up as being alleged proof this is the guy? Some DNA on one of the victim's shawls is not quite enough to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt this was the guy.

I don't think we will ever know with absolute certainty who Jack the Ripper was. I think its highly possible he was one of the named suspects, but which one is really anyone's guess. To much time has passed, evidence is to thin to say for sure, and there are to many possible suspects.

Maybe, just maybe if they link Kosmenski to one of the other victims somehow you could make a pretty solid case, but even that would not quite be absolute proof. There will always be some doubt in this person's mind or that person's.

MegtheEgg86 · 09-14-2014, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

I refrained from commenting earlier because I have a controversial opinion.

This particular victim was Catherine Eddowes and the man they are claiming is Jack the Ripper has been identified as Polish immigrant Aaron Kosminski.

I have quite a few problems with information in that article. For one thing, the DM is a tabloid (which I confess to frequently reading lol). Another thing, the "article" is just a guise to plug this guy's book, which is being released tomorrow. IIRC, there have several books published claiming they had evidence that either this suspect or that was definitely Jack. A favorite theme seems to be that one of the royals was Jack. I think even as recently as the 90s, when we had DNA testing available, there was a book claiming Jack was duke or a prince.

The chain of evidence on that shawl is horrendous. It supposedly started out as a souvenir in an investigating officer's home, and was then passed down through his family. Then it made the rounds through other people's hands, storage, auction, back out of storage, etc.

Another is if that was her shawl, it's possible Kosminski was a client who left behind dna and she just didn't wash her clothing very frequently. She was a poor prostitute and this was 1888. IIRC, she was also an alcoholic. I doubt she had much opportunity or means to wash her clothing very often.

That being said. I'd like one of our UK members to give some facts on the following subject, if possible.

From what I understand from reading comments on news articles, there seems to be a lot of anti-polish sentiment in the UK right now. IMO, if that's the case, it really wouldn't be surprising for someone to pin the crime on a guy who's from the currently disliked ethnic group, rather than an Englishman.

I share your stance.

There has been anti-Polish sentiment in the UK for years. I guess that goes double, unfortunately, if you happen to be a Polish Jew, as Kosminski was.

Necco · 09-14-2014, 01:32 PM

A shawl of seriously dubious provenance, made of a fabric likely too expensive for someone of Catherine Eaddows stature

DNA not independently tested in more than one lab

And seriously, what husband would bring home a blood and spunk covered shawl and be like "Hey, honey, I picked this up for you at the crime scene, I thought it would go with your blue dress!"

Arnold_OldSchool · 09-15-2014, 05:36 AM

This is the third different time that DNA has named a suspect as the Ripper.

Mysteryphile · 09-15-2014, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

I share your stance.

There has been anti-Polish sentiment in the UK for years. I guess that goes double, unfortunately, if you happen to be a Polish Jew, as Kosminski was.

As an American living in England I can say Meg is absolutely right about that. I always here people complaining about foreigners over here (funnily enough they don't mean me....they mean people from more...as they see it...undesirable countries)

The thing you have to understand though is that there is very high unemployment here. So anyone that comes over here and makes it even harder to find a job is looked on with a lot of dislike.

Necco · 09-15-2014, 02:36 PM

Would a relatively recent Polish immigrant be as literate in English as the letter writer was? Particularly an insane hairdresser?

Mysteryphile · 09-16-2014, 04:47 PM

There is a strong belief that Jack the Ripper didn't write some of the letters, that a newsman did and his handwriting was matched to other letters he'd written. (I saw it on the Discovery channel when they were trying to pin the murders on...that American quack... Dr.Tumblety I think his name was)

Necco · 09-16-2014, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysteryphile

There is a strong belief that Jack the Ripper didn't write some of the letters, that a newsman did and his handwriting was matched to other letters he'd written. (I saw it on the Discovery channel when they were trying to pin the murders on...that American quack... Dr.Tumblety I think his name was)

Even the one with the kidney?

Gelatinous Goo · 09-17-2014, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necco

And seriously, what husband would bring home a blood and spunk covered shawl and be like "Hey, honey, I picked this up for you at the crime scene, I thought it would go with your blue dress!"

This certainly qualifies for funniest post of the year!

09-07-2014, 01:52 AM	#1
Guardian Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: WA Posts: 522	The Holy Grail of cold cases! Jack the Ripper Mods, forgive me. I know there is already a "cases that should have" thread, but this is way too big to be mixed with other cases. The Holy Grail of Unsolved Mysteries: Jack the Ripper has been SOLVED! At least it sounds quite likely that it has. Hopefully it is ok to post this here. Check out this article. It seems pretty conclusive. While I can think of other possibilities to fit the info they found, this seems very likely to have been solved after 126 years. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-murders.html
	__________________ For every mystery there is someone, somewhere, who knows what happened. Perhaps... it's you...

09-08-2014, 05:02 AM	#2
Guardian Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: WA Posts: 522	No one has anything to comment on this? I have been freaking out since Saturday. This looks legit and is just awesome!

09-08-2014, 10:57 AM	#3
Mysteryphile I wonder what happened to her. Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 02, 2009 Location: England via Iowa Posts: 320	Well...what the dna proves is the suspect came into contact with that woman at some point. It doesn't prove that he was Jack the Ripper. With that being said, I think its a huge coincidence that one of the suspects DNA just happened to end up on one of the murder victims (although it was on her shawl...not someplace like on her dress or underwear or somewhere more intimate) What I'd like to know is...did this woman (can't remember who the article said it was) and this man know each other? If they did then there could be a completely benign reason why his dna was found on her shawl.

09-08-2014, 05:48 PM	#4
TracyLynnS Don't Look Up Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 3,107	I refrained from commenting earlier because I have a controversial opinion. This particular victim was Catherine Eddowes and the man they are claiming is Jack the Ripper has been identified as Polish immigrant Aaron Kosminski. I have quite a few problems with information in that article. For one thing, the DM is a tabloid (which I confess to frequently reading lol). Another thing, the "article" is just a guise to plug this guy's book, which is being released tomorrow. IIRC, there have several books published claiming they had evidence that either this suspect or that was definitely Jack. A favorite theme seems to be that one of the royals was Jack. I think even as recently as the 90s, when we had DNA testing available, there was a book claiming Jack was duke or a prince. The chain of evidence on that shawl is horrendous. It supposedly started out as a souvenir in an investigating officer's home, and was then passed down through his family. Then it made the rounds through other people's hands, storage, auction, back out of storage, etc. Another is if that was her shawl, it's possible Kosminski was a client who left behind dna and she just didn't wash her clothing very frequently. She was a poor prostitute and this was 1888. IIRC, she was also an alcoholic. I doubt she had much opportunity or means to wash her clothing very often. That being said. I'd like one of our UK members to give some facts on the following subject, if possible. From what I understand from reading comments on news articles, there seems to be a lot of anti-polish sentiment in the UK right now. IMO, if that's the case, it really wouldn't be surprising for someone to pin the crime on a guy who's from the currently disliked ethnic group, rather than an Englishman.

09-08-2014, 06:04 PM	#5
UM_FAN_79 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 03, 2014 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 32	I"ll have to take this story with a grain of salt. This same tabloid recently published a story revealing the true identity of the Zodiac Killer while plugging a new book at the same time. There was also a big story going around last year about a man named Tony Zerelli who claimed to know exactly what happened to Jimmy Hoffa…..but you have to buy the book to find out.

09-09-2014, 12:48 AM	#6
Awsi Dooger Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 18, 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 1,537	Kosminski has always been my favorite among the named suspects. Well, by always I mean since 1990. I was visiting England that summer and happened to see a 2-part series on Jack the Ripper. Gave me the creeps. It focused on the royal angle, which was relatively new at the time. I visited Whitechapel and took a Ripper tour. Big mistake. They actually had pictures of the final murder, the most gruesome one. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to shake that image. Then I bought a Ripper book. The following week I was in Dublin, renting a top room in a bed and breakfast for a few nights. Every time I heard creaks in the night I was thinking about Jack the Ripper. Couldn't sleep. Couldn't wait to return to Las Vegas and the relaxing world of sports betting. I like the Kosminski angle partially because he doesn't have a medical background. That's a cheap focus, IMO. It takes very little skill to tear something apart as opposed to putting it together. The people who insist the Ripper had medical training remind me of all the goofs who dismiss anyone in the EAR-ONs case who didn't have a military connection. Kosminski was also younger than the others, if I remember correctly. In most true crime cases I default to the younger guy or gal as perpetrator. He also was known to live nearby. In reading the link a couple of days ago, there were two disturbing aspects. One, I hoped the author of the article didn't have a preconceived notion, that the physical evidence alone led to Kosminski. But that wasn't the case at all. I stopped and shook my head when the author conceded that he basically decided Kosminski had to be the Ripper and then set out to "prove" it. Also, the person who did the DNA testing used techniques that are not well known and widely accepted. He bragged that he developed the new methods himself. What, specifically for this case? On the fly? I also didn't understand how a connection to a relative many generations removed could be deemed "perfect" without some type of further explanation. I assume that will be in the book. I would guess that this is probably the correct solution. But it's hardly going to end the debate, and probably won't be much more than a blip. Others have already mentioned the chain of command issues, and the fact that a prostitute is hardly a loner whose shawl would contain physical evidence only from herself. Besides, this case in an industry. Too many people have a stake in the industry continuing and flourishing. That type will reject any threat of a tame solution. It's like more recent cases, things like JFK and D.B. Cooper. Nobody wants the simple answer to be correct. On this forum my highest level of certainty is Richard Floyd McCoy as D.B. Cooper. To bet that case would be like stealing, far beyond buying AAPL once Steve Jobs returned. But there's such emotion and animosity and denial attached to the other side that they won't even allow McCoy specifics to be posted in the related Wikipedia page, as I've mentioned here.

09-14-2014, 12:21 AM	#7
XCalibur Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 16, 2010 Location: Belfast, Va Posts: 982	How many different names have come up as being alleged proof this is the guy? Some DNA on one of the victim's shawls is not quite enough to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt this was the guy. I don't think we will ever know with absolute certainty who Jack the Ripper was. I think its highly possible he was one of the named suspects, but which one is really anyone's guess. To much time has passed, evidence is to thin to say for sure, and there are to many possible suspects. Maybe, just maybe if they link Kosmenski to one of the other victims somehow you could make a pretty solid case, but even that would not quite be absolute proof. There will always be some doubt in this person's mind or that person's.

09-14-2014, 01:32 PM	#9
Necco Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 06, 2006 Posts: 1,149	A shawl of seriously dubious provenance, made of a fabric likely too expensive for someone of Catherine Eaddows stature DNA not independently tested in more than one lab And seriously, what husband would bring home a blood and spunk covered shawl and be like "Hey, honey, I picked this up for you at the crime scene, I thought it would go with your blue dress!"

09-15-2014, 05:36 AM	#10
Arnold_OldSchool Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 16, 2006 Posts: 681	This is the third different time that DNA has named a suspect as the Ripper.

09-15-2014, 02:36 PM	#12
Necco Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 06, 2006 Posts: 1,149	Would a relatively recent Polish immigrant be as literate in English as the letter writer was? Particularly an insane hairdresser?

09-16-2014, 04:47 PM	#13
Mysteryphile I wonder what happened to her. Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 02, 2009 Location: England via Iowa Posts: 320	There is a strong belief that Jack the Ripper didn't write some of the letters, that a newsman did and his handwriting was matched to other letters he'd written. (I saw it on the Discovery channel when they were trying to pin the murders on...that American quack... Dr.Tumblety I think his name was)