Cindy James - Suicide or Murder?

[lilmissd]

This is a very perplexing and strange case for me and I'm totally on the fence on this one. I've looked at the evidence and read articles on her case several times and I just don't know. A person would have to be severely mentally ill to stage attacks of this magnitude on them self. This went on for seven years, it pretty hard to believe that a person could keep this harassment up for that long. She was a nurse, don't you think she would have known by injecting herself with the amount of morphine found in her system would kill her? I don't think someone with the medical training she had would knowingly do that to them self. The police assume just because she wasn't telling them the whole story that she was lying and doing this to herself. Take the fire in her basement for instance, why would she have purposely set fire to her home knowing other people were inside? it doesn't make sense. An investigator that was at the crime scene said that it would be virtually impossible for someone to hog tie themself like that; which I believe, I tried this myself once and after a couple hours I gave up because I couldn't do it! It's nearly impossible for me to believe that in her drugged state that she could have tied herself up like that; i think the cops are missing an important piece of the puzzle here. I believe some how she was blacking out with no memory of what had happened, maybe from being drugged over time it affected her memory or possibly a head injury. I just don't know; but I'm leaning towards homicide. What does everyone else think? Any thoughts, ideas, opinions on this case I would love to hear your take!

[SageSlowdive]

I think the fact that she kept withholding information and making that public, makes me wonder what was really going on in her head.

If you remember, her psychiatrist actually appeared on the program and commented that the reason she committed herself was that she was worried people thought it was actually her.

No answers anywhere in this case - I've heard a few people mention her ex-husband being involved.

[StevenQBosell]

This case has always perplexed me (long time lurker 1st time poster) I don't see how someone can hogtie themselves. She didn't help her situation by not telling anyone who she thought was behind it but I'm not buying she took morphine pills THEN tied herself up, layer down and died? Something's not right

[LooksLikeCRicci]

There's apparently a really good book written on this case. I need to read it.

I think I remember from the UM re-enactments that someone WAS able to duplicate the results. I don't think they drugged themselves, but they were able to hog-tie themselves up...

[LilMissKryssy]

Most women do commit suicide by pills/medication if why do kill themselves. I've always felt it was an elaborate suicide. Why would the killer overdose her but make it look like it was a strangling at the scene? Of course, it's possible she was killed but after all those years no suspect? Plus, a victim of terror and harassment usually doesn't go walking their dog alone at night at 3am as said in the episode. So, I dunno. I'm more inclined with suicide. Also she was a nurse and was well versed in how much morphine would be fatal ect

[Necco]

It is not impossible to hogtie yourself, especially if you're extremely flexible.

A friend of mine has a genetic disorder that does something to the collagen in her body and basically makes her Plastic man.

I have so many questions in this case:

In the incident where she got a knife through her hand, was it through her dominant hand?

Why would she go and deposit her check if she was going to kill herself in the next few minutes?

When she was found dead, she had a needle mark in her arm, but there were no works found with her. So, was that from the morphine? If so, where's the needle?

Several incidents involved stockings. Were the new stockings? Used? Have they been kept somewhere? If used, can they be checked for DNA?

When her phone lines were cut, what were the cut with? Were they always cut with the same sort of tool?

In the crime scene shots, her hand looks black. Is this due to decomp or is it from lividity? If it was lividity, why is it on the part of her hands on top?

One of the videos I watched on her sister's site discussed how the first investigating officer developed a relationship with Cindy, move in with her and their relationship deepened. Did the officer engage in a romantic relationship with Cindy? If so, can we trust his assessment of the case?

I've only ever seen photocopies of the notes. Is it photocopies that were sent and not the original ransom note style collages? If so, were they all made on the same copier? Do the notes and envelopes still exist somewhere?



Wow. Just did some quick research into Dr. Tyhurst, a psychiatrist mentioned in another thread about Cindy. He worked with Cindy's husband.

In addition to being convicted of sexually abusing one of his clients, he did extensive research on LSD. According to some sources he was funded by the CIA during the MKULTRA/Project ARTICHOKE era. You know, the one that led to the "suicide" of another Unsolved Mysteries story… Frank Olson.

https://books.google.com/books?id=WL...yhurst&f=false

http://www.harrykarlinsky.ca/filmrev...s-of-lsd-2002/

https://books.google.com/books?id=g1...yhurst&f=false

http://alex-sk.de/mirror/colin-ross.html



On the other hand, this paints an entirely different picture of Tyhurst's dealing with LSD.

https://circle.ubc.ca/bitstream/hand...pdf?sequence=1


And here is some information about his crimes:

https://books.google.com/books?id=H4...yhurst&f=false


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00246-0135.pdf

I have to say, his defense sounds a lot like what people said about Cindy. When I started this response, I was unsure of what happened to Cindy. Now I believe that even if she did somehow kill herself, it was someone else's fault. I think they drove her crazy. I think they exploited her weaknesses. I think at least some if not all of the instances were real. (Some may have been a desperate attempt on Cindy's part to get someone to believe her.)

I think she was set up. And my suspect list is very short. I think it was someone in the psychiatric community there. The hospital she was admitted to is currently a teaching hospital for UBC where her ex husband and Tyhurst both worked at some point. It appears to have been so for a long time.




Wow. I have fallen far down the research rabbit hole. Time for a break.

[Necco]

For the love of Robert Stack! I think I just came up with a conspiracy theory. I hate conspiracy theories. I'm an Occum's Razor kind of girl. That's how WEIRD this case is.

[Charlie99909]

Originally Posted by Necco

For the love of Robert Stack! I think I just came up with a conspiracy theory. I hate conspiracy theories. I'm an Occum's Razor kind of girl. That's how WEIRD this case is.

Poltergeist? ;-)

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by Charlie99909

Poltergeist? ;-)

I love how this has become the go-to explanation for any sort of shenanigans anymore...

Necco-- SUPER interesting!

[ChrissySnow]

Necco - I'd love to hear your theory!!

I am so on the fence about this case.
It is one where I consistently go back and forth as to suicide vs murder.
I just don't understand WHY she wouldn't divulge who she thought was harassing her.

I'd love to get some answers to the questions posed a few posts up.
Someone knows what happened.

[Necco]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

I love how this has become the go-to explanation for any sort of shenanigans anymore...

Necco-- SUPER interesting!

Except, oddly, the ghost stories! Heh!

[TheCars1986]

There was a voice message left on one of Cindy's answering machines, and it is blatantly obvious that the voice is that of a woman. Since Cindy never id'ed her attackers to anyone, and since the attacks always happened when no one else was around, I think she was doing this to herself and ultimately committed suicide.

[James T]

This case seemed similar to the Wackers in some respects.

[LilMissKryssy]

Originally Posted by Necco

It is not impossible to hogtie yourself, especially if you're extremely flexible.

A friend of mine has a genetic disorder that does something to the collagen in her body and basically makes her Plastic man.

I have so many questions in this case:

In the incident where she got a knife through her hand, was it through her dominant hand?

Why would she go and deposit her check if she was going to kill herself in the next few minutes?

When she was found dead, she had a needle mark in her arm, but there were no works found with her. So, was that from the morphine? If so, where's the needle?

Several incidents involved stockings. Were the new stockings? Used? Have they been kept somewhere? If used, can they be checked for DNA?

When her phone lines were cut, what were the cut with? Were they always cut with the same sort of tool?

In the crime scene shots, her hand looks black. Is this due to decomp or is it from lividity? If it was lividity, why is it on the part of her hands on top?

One of the videos I watched on her sister's site discussed how the first investigating officer developed a relationship with Cindy, move in with her and their relationship deepened. Did the officer engage in a romantic relationship with Cindy? If so, can we trust his assessment of the case?

I've only ever seen photocopies of the notes. Is it photocopies that were sent and not the original ransom note style collages? If so, were they all made on the same copier? Do the notes and envelopes still exist somewhere?



Wow. Just did some quick research into Dr. Tyhurst, a psychiatrist mentioned in another thread about Cindy. He worked with Cindy's husband.

In addition to being convicted of sexually abusing one of his clients, he did extensive research on LSD. According to some sources he was funded by the CIA during the MKULTRA/Project ARTICHOKE era. You know, the one that led to the "suicide" of another Unsolved Mysteries story… Frank Olson.

https://books.google.com/books?id=WL...yhurst&f=false

http://www.harrykarlinsky.ca/filmrev...s-of-lsd-2002/

https://books.google.com/books?id=g1...yhurst&f=false

http://alex-sk.de/mirror/colin-ross.html



On the other hand, this paints an entirely different picture of Tyhurst's dealing with LSD.

https://circle.ubc.ca/bitstream/hand...pdf?sequence=1


And here is some information about his crimes:

https://books.google.com/books?id=H4...yhurst&f=false


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00246-0135.pdf

I have to say, his defense sounds a lot like what people said about Cindy. When I started this response, I was unsure of what happened to Cindy. Now I believe that even if she did somehow kill herself, it was someone else's fault. I think they drove her crazy. I think they exploited her weaknesses. I think at least some if not all of the instances were real. (Some may have been a desperate attempt on Cindy's part to get someone to believe her.)

I think she was set up. And my suspect list is very short. I think it was someone in the psychiatric community there. The hospital she was admitted to is currently a teaching hospital for UBC where her ex husband and Tyhurst both worked at some point. It appears to have been so for a long time.




Wow. I have fallen far down the research rabbit hole. Time for a break.

Whoa, that's all really cool info! thanks! In regards to the bank account and depositing her paychecks. I always thought that IF she did kill herself she wanted it to look like someone else did it. If she had injected herself with morphine, it would've taken effect VERY quickly, much quicker than if she swallowed pills. We're talking seconds if she injected it directly into her blood stream. Since it was enough to kill her, she would've went unconscious within seconds.

So that actually eliminates that she killed herself. Also, if you overdose on pills, usually they find pills in your stomach that aren't absorbed yet so most people die before everything is completely absorbed. So if they found nothing in her stomach and with the needle mark, I'm inclined to believe she was injected. If she was injected that completely eliminates suicide for me because she would've been unconscious within seconds. No enough time to tie herself up or dispose of the needle.

Also it's possible she was injected with heroin as heroin becomes morphine in your body and is always listed on an autopsy as morphine. Heroin would've probably been easier to find for the perpetrator unless they had access to it in the medical field or nursing home.

[JBody]

Originally Posted by Necco

For the love of Robert Stack! I think I just came up with a conspiracy theory. I hate conspiracy theories. I'm an Occum's Razor kind of girl. That's how WEIRD this case is.

Yup. That's exactly how I felt on the Bishop thread. Rather horrified at the rabbit hole I found myself in.... I'm also an Occam's razor kind of girl.

That being said, this case in particular makes little sense to me. From what I've read, I don't think she committed suicide. It is disturbing to me that the Vancouver police couldn't be arsed to look further into it. The whole possible dissociative identity disorder (DID) or multiple personality disorder (MPD) explanation is a bit too convenient. I'm not saying it's impossible but there is a great deal of controversy about that disorder anyway (some psychiatrists maintain it doesn't even properly exist). I think she was murdered.