Nicholl Ross West - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

JSP · 08-11-2014, 09:43 PM

Hard to believe the guys that wrote a large chunk of "All In The Family" episodes were also the creative push behind "Three's Company".

That fact just seems to be forgotten in the discussion of both shows.

Critics loved "All In The Family" and hated "Three's Company".

Just an interesting paradox if you ask me.

JackJanetChrissy · 08-11-2014, 10:29 PM

Yes, I agree, it's kind of amazing when you think about it.

Critics hated TC, but I think many people failed to appreciate it for what it was. Three's Company was a farce, which is a format that's really difficult to write and perform. It has to be tightly written and acted. There must be a twist and often interweaving narratives or subplots that eventually intersect in an unexpected fashion, while keeping physical comedy at the fore. Think of any TC ep and you will find there are constantly people entering, exiting, pratfalling, etc, which takes exceptional timing.

In some ways I think AITF would have been easier to write because of the more traditional format, mix in some controversial issues and you're done. TC was lighter on content, but as far as writing and acting, it was probably the more challenging show to write and perform. Many critics missed that....and I think because it was performed so flawlessly it didn't encourage a lot of thought or analysis. It deceptively appeared easy and fluffy.

Mace Dolex · 08-12-2014, 12:26 AM

Yeah I sort of agree a bit on that, I for one have never seen an episode of All In The Family for the reasons stated in the above post, sitcoms are for comedy and not to preach on social and political topics.

Thank god that critics are finally giving TC it's well deserved place among sitcoms.

JSP · 08-12-2014, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackJanetChrissy

Yes, I agree, it's kind of amazing when you think about it.

Critics hated TC, but I think many people failed to appreciate it for what it was. Three's Company was a farce, which is a format that's really difficult to write and perform. It has to be tightly written and acted. There must be a twist and often interweaving narratives or subplots that eventually intersect in an unexpected fashion, while keeping physical comedy at the fore. Think of any TC ep and you will find there are constantly people entering, exiting, pratfalling, etc, which takes exceptional timing.

In some ways I think AITF would have been easier to write because of the more traditional format, mix in some controversial issues and you're done. TC was lighter on content, but as far as writing and acting, it was probably the more challenging show to write and perform. Many critics missed that....and I think because it was performed so flawlessly it didn't encourage a lot of thought or analysis. It deceptively appeared easy and fluffy.

I'm beginning to realize I guess "farce" is a genre where the writing is deliberately not detailed or sophisticated and the responsibility lies on the performers to make it work.

That really is something you don't see on TV much anymore. It seems actors basically just follow what's written on the page these days. With a modern show like "The Big Bang Theory" everybody but Sheldon seems like they could have easily been replaced with another actor who could deliver the same lines.

Whereas you know "Three's Company" was a performer driven show and not anybody was going to pull off what John, Joyce, and the blondes were doing!

It's just weird that the same writing team was able to try something different in a different type of comedic writing and succeed. If anything that makes Nicholl Ross and West more diverse than someone who's well respected like James Brooks or Allan Burns, the people behind all those MTM comedies in the 70s. Those folks never tried their hand in a farce like Three's Company as far as I can tell. Nicholl Ross and West stretched their wings a little and pulled it off.

BigManMike · 08-12-2014, 10:17 AM

Nicholl Ross West also worked on The Jeffersons and The Ropers. Nicholl died in 1980, but post 1980 episodes of The Jeffersons and Three's Company still continued to say Nicholl Ross West throughout their entire run. Ross and West also did Three's a Crowd, and surprisingly Nicholl is credited is one of the writers of that show's theme song. The song must have been written years before the show debuted and maybe that song was originally intended to be used for something else.

JackJanetChrissy · 08-12-2014, 12:53 PM

According to the Chris Mann book, Silverman wanted Nicholl, Ross and West to "give the same breakthrough for sexiness that AITF did for bigotry." It was after that commission that the decided to make it a farce.

"I'm beginning to realize I guess "farce" is a genre where the writing is deliberately not detailed or sophisticated and the responsibility lies on the performers to make it work.

Read more: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...#ixzz3ACIfcuVB

The performance matters, sure, but have you ever tried writing a farce? It is very difficult. The content is not heavy, but I would say it is a sophisticated format to write. Especially in TC's case, where often one writer was credited....that's a lot for a single writer to crank out in a week.

eleri · 08-12-2014, 02:31 PM

I think Joyce, John, Suzanne and Priscilla deserve a lot of credit for making the farce work, but Nicholl, Ross and West are getting way too much credit here for writing the show. The first 3 years of TC, as well as the entire run of the Ropers and TAC were based on Brittish series', not just in the overall concept, but in the scripts. The script for the TC pilot was almost word-for-word identical to the pilot script for Man About the House. Ropers and TAC only had 4 original episodes between them.

If you'll recall, the fourth season, the first season when NRW had to write original stories and scripts, was the season when Chrissy suddenly became unbearably stupid.

JackJanetChrissy · 08-12-2014, 07:30 PM

I didn't realize that about no original episodes until season 4. I've never watched Man About the House. I knew the pilot episode of TC was similar to the pilot ep of MATH but not about the first three seasons.

JSP · 08-12-2014, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackJanetChrissy

I didn't realize that about no original episodes until season 4. I've never watched Man About the House. I knew the pilot episode of TC was similar to the pilot ep of MATH but not about the first three seasons.

It really was a performer-driven show!

eleri · 08-12-2014, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigcookie

Nicholl died in 1980, but post 1980 episodes of The Jeffersons and Three's Company still continued to say Nicholl Ross West throughout their entire run. Ross and West also did Three's a Crowd, and surprisingly Nicholl is credited is one of the writers of that show's theme song. The song must have been written years before the show debuted and maybe that song was originally intended to be used for something else.

That's really interesting about the TAC theme song. Now, Nicholl died right after the end of the 4th season, and we know that RNW didn't like to write their own scripts from scratch if they didn't absolutely have to. Is it possible that they were planning on transitioning TC into a spin off much earlier?

In the British series, toward the end of the 3rd year, the actress playing Chrissy gave notice that she would leave after that season to pursue other projects. The producers felt that the show could not continue without her

, so they ended the series that season with Chrissy's wedding, and then split most of the rest of the cast into two spin offs. One of the spin offs focused on the Ropers and the other focused on the male roommate and his new live-in girlfriend Vicky.

Maybe, during TC's 3rd season, they thought it might be natural to end TC and replace it with two spin offs. That way they wouldn't run out of scripts.

Or maybe, during the 4th, they were getting tired of writing their own scripts and came up with an idea to spin off TC into TAC.

Either way, the idea wouldn't have gotten very far, but it might have gotten far enough for them to start working out a theme song.

JSP · 08-13-2014, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleri

That's really interesting about the TAC theme song. Now, Nicholl died right after the end of the 4th season, and we know that RNW didn't like to write their own scripts from scratch if they didn't absolutely have to. Is it possible that they were planning on transitioning TC into a spin off much earlier?

I read on Wikipedia they tried selling around a version of "Robin's Nest", the spin-off of Man About The House, back in 1980 before Three's Company ended. I think it's in the Wikipedia article about Three's A Crowd. So that would explain how Nicholl could have co-wrote the theme. It wasn't necessarily originally planned that John Ritter would have anything to do with it.

Basically since Three's Company, the American version of Man About The House, was a success it meant there were going to be American spinoff versions of George and Mildred and Robin's Nest. The producers weren't going to let more money slip away.

eleri · 08-13-2014, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSP

I read on Wikipedia they tried selling around a version of "Robin's Nest", the spin-off of Man About The House, back in 1980 . . . It wasn't necessarily originally planned that John Ritter would have anything to do with it.

1980, before Nicholl died, that would have been during the 4th season. But leaving out Ritter makes no sense. Without a connection to the original show

, they would have no reason to expect TAC to be bring in any more money than any other sitcom concept. . . . Unless they were thinking of using Larry? Now that would have been interesting!

I can see it now: Richard Kline as Larry the former swinging playboy, with Valerie Harper as Vicky, and the leering, sarcastic Mickey Deems as her father. I would have loved that show.

JackJanetChrissy · 08-13-2014, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleri

I can see it now: Richard Kline as Larry the former swinging playboy, with Valerie Harper as Vicky, and the leering, sarcastic Mickey Deems as her father. I would have loved that show.

I would loved to have seen a spinoff about Larry. And that casting would have been awesome!

Dianne3 · 08-13-2014, 04:31 PM

Interesting information.
I saw most of TC in it's original run and didn't know about there only about 4 original episodes in the first 3 seasons.
I did vaguely remember hearing about TC being based on a British series.
Of course in TC original run, there wasn't the internet to discuss these things.
Which were the 4 original episodes?

Chirssy actually started being dumbed down in season 3. By the second half of season 3, she was more dumb than normal. Season 4 is when Chrissy reached the point of no return. You gotta wonder what would have become of Chrissy, had SS not been fired.

JackJanetChrissy · 08-13-2014, 04:51 PM

I've been doing research, and would like to know how, if MATH had only 39 episodes total, and TC had 53 episodes in Seasons 1-3, there could only be 4 original episodes in TC?

I also read descriptions of MATH and although some episodes were clearly copied from top to bottom (pilot ep, "It's Only Money," etc), most of them were redone. For example, the MATH episode that focuses on Robin getting a cold and the girls suggesting home remedies ("Match of the Day") is boiled down to a tag scene on TC's "Double Date." So while there were definite conceptual similarities, TC was mostly original writing.

08-11-2014, 09:43 PM	#1
JSP Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 19, 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 2,735	Nicholl Ross West Hard to believe the guys that wrote a large chunk of "All In The Family" episodes were also the creative push behind "Three's Company". That fact just seems to be forgotten in the discussion of both shows. Critics loved "All In The Family" and hated "Three's Company". Just an interesting paradox if you ask me.

08-12-2014, 02:31 PM	#7
eleri Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jun 27, 2011 Posts: 56	Way too much credit I think Joyce, John, Suzanne and Priscilla deserve a lot of credit for making the farce work, but Nicholl, Ross and West are getting way too much credit here for writing the show. The first 3 years of TC, as well as the entire run of the Ropers and TAC were based on Brittish series', not just in the overall concept, but in the scripts. The script for the TC pilot was almost word-for-word identical to the pilot script for Man About the House. Ropers and TAC only had 4 original episodes between them. If you'll recall, the fourth season, the first season when NRW had to write original stories and scripts, was the season when Chrissy suddenly became unbearably stupid.

08-11-2014, 10:29 PM	#2
JackJanetChrissy Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 18, 2014 Posts: 1,005	Yes, I agree, it's kind of amazing when you think about it. Critics hated TC, but I think many people failed to appreciate it for what it was. Three's Company was a farce, which is a format that's really difficult to write and perform. It has to be tightly written and acted. There must be a twist and often interweaving narratives or subplots that eventually intersect in an unexpected fashion, while keeping physical comedy at the fore. Think of any TC ep and you will find there are constantly people entering, exiting, pratfalling, etc, which takes exceptional timing. In some ways I think AITF would have been easier to write because of the more traditional format, mix in some controversial issues and you're done. TC was lighter on content, but as far as writing and acting, it was probably the more challenging show to write and perform. Many critics missed that....and I think because it was performed so flawlessly it didn't encourage a lot of thought or analysis. It deceptively appeared easy and fluffy.

08-12-2014, 12:26 AM	#3
Mace Dolex Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 12, 2013 Posts: 2,666	Yeah I sort of agree a bit on that, I for one have never seen an episode of All In The Family for the reasons stated in the above post, sitcoms are for comedy and not to preach on social and political topics. Thank god that critics are finally giving TC it's well deserved place among sitcoms.

08-12-2014, 10:17 AM	#5
BigManMike Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 25, 2006 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 3,022	Nicholl Ross West also worked on The Jeffersons and The Ropers. Nicholl died in 1980, but post 1980 episodes of The Jeffersons and Three's Company still continued to say Nicholl Ross West throughout their entire run. Ross and West also did Three's a Crowd, and surprisingly Nicholl is credited is one of the writers of that show's theme song. The song must have been written years before the show debuted and maybe that song was originally intended to be used for something else.

08-12-2014, 12:53 PM	#6
JackJanetChrissy Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 18, 2014 Posts: 1,005	According to the Chris Mann book, Silverman wanted Nicholl, Ross and West to "give the same breakthrough for sexiness that AITF did for bigotry." It was after that commission that the decided to make it a farce. "I'm beginning to realize I guess "farce" is a genre where the writing is deliberately not detailed or sophisticated and the responsibility lies on the performers to make it work. Read more: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...#ixzz3ACIfcuVB The performance matters, sure, but have you ever tried writing a farce? It is very difficult. The content is not heavy, but I would say it is a sophisticated format to write. Especially in TC's case, where often one writer was credited....that's a lot for a single writer to crank out in a week.

08-12-2014, 07:30 PM	#8
JackJanetChrissy Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 18, 2014 Posts: 1,005	I didn't realize that about no original episodes until season 4. I've never watched Man About the House. I knew the pilot episode of TC was similar to the pilot ep of MATH but not about the first three seasons.

08-13-2014, 04:31 PM	#14
Dianne3 Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 07, 2002 Posts: 1,056	Interesting information. I saw most of TC in it's original run and didn't know about there only about 4 original episodes in the first 3 seasons. I did vaguely remember hearing about TC being based on a British series. Of course in TC original run, there wasn't the internet to discuss these things. Which were the 4 original episodes? Chirssy actually started being dumbed down in season 3. By the second half of season 3, she was more dumb than normal. Season 4 is when Chrissy reached the point of no return. You gotta wonder what would have become of Chrissy, had SS not been fired.

08-13-2014, 04:51 PM	#15
JackJanetChrissy Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 18, 2014 Posts: 1,005	I've been doing research, and would like to know how, if MATH had only 39 episodes total, and TC had 53 episodes in Seasons 1-3, there could only be 4 original episodes in TC? I also read descriptions of MATH and although some episodes were clearly copied from top to bottom (pilot ep, "It's Only Money," etc), most of them were redone. For example, the MATH episode that focuses on Robin getting a cold and the girls suggesting home remedies ("Match of the Day") is boiled down to a tag scene on TC's "Double Date." So while there were definite conceptual similarities, TC was mostly original writing.