Original Robert Kennedy segment

[Guardian]

I remember a segment from the first few years of UM in which they had a long segment on the assassination of Robert Kennedy. This is not the missing photo segment which is the more common segment shown. This was specifically king into the second gun man theory and used computer generated diagrams to show where all involved were standing in relation to the shooting.

The segment with the high school photographer who had his pictures confiscated By the LAPD was a follow up several years later.

I am really hoping to locate this segment either on line or whatever. Even a transcript of the segment would be nice. Any help would be appreciated.

[Truth Sleuth]

Yes, I remember that. I may even have it on a VHS somewhere. They did a recreation of the shooting.

[Cori aka ChrisSCrush]

I remember that, specifically "Kennedy would have to be nine feet tall, or have his head on this other man's shoulder" for the bullets to hit both as they did.

[sdb4884]

Never saw this one before, the music with the funeral train was very moving.

[Cori aka ChrisSCrush]

Paul Schrade, one of the wounded survivors, testified about this within the last year or two.

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by sdb4884

Never saw this one before, the music with the funeral train was very moving.

I was in third grade and remember that train and everything else. I got up for school and tuned in my children's programming only to see a strange sight of a man standing atop a large white truck shouting into a megaphone. Within a few seconds of listening I realized Robert F. Kennedy had been shot. I had to wake my parents with the news. Then it was very somber at school that day and the next day. We didn't know if Kennedy would live, although it always sounded grim.

After his death my father stormed into my room and grabbed all the fake guns out of my huge toy chest and threw them away. I had a prized fake submachine gun. That went also. My dad was an incredible man.

I don't remember too many of my assignments from third grade. I do know that if anybody obsessively plotted for two (or more) shooters being active simultaneously in a public space, but only one of them identified and pursued while the other got away undetected, they would never pull it off. Not once in 100 tries. Not in 100 tries year after year even if that's all they worked on, the entirety of their emphasis.

In true crime analysis, of course, the percentage is slightly different: Grassy knoll? No problem. Ambassador Hotel? No problem.

Truth is stranger than fiction. That's one of the great truisms. Strangest and saddest of all are the versions that people are willing to believe. In this case I've seen assertions that assassins were waiting for Bobby Kennedy at every corner, every exit. Sure, they were holding a convention across the street. Drew lots for the prime locations. Then some of them sulked when they weren't among the lucky two. Or four. Whatever is needed.

Fake news succeeded last year partially because a storyline was attached. I've looked at those articles. They weren't merely a one paragraph grabber. As ludicrous as the premise always was, the creators weaved absurdly through one supposed link after another. That was actually very sharp. When gullibility and bias blend, that type of wandering account allows alternative fact types to swallow virtually anything.

That was a marvelous contribution to the language, BTW. Alternative facts. It carries a proper degree of mockery. The prior staple of conspiracy theory had become stale to the point the theorists had begun to accept it, if not parade it.

When a video is lacking then the alternative types invent or amend anything that suits them, whether it's positioning or angles or number of shots or whatever. The truth in discrepancy is simply error. None of this is as sophisticated as we're led to believe, as I've emphasized countless times. Adam Emery was in that water. The leg bone was his. Experts butchered the conclusion. In situations like this, crowd and chaos lend themselves to error and confusion, by authorities and witnesses including during the aftermath and crime scene examination. In real time there is far more clarity, such as who Rosey Grier and Rafer Johnson tackled. If the Zapruder film had been lacking in the JFK case, then the alternative fact types would have been unleashed to even greater absurdity than they managed without it. You would have shooters pursuing then fleeing from every direction. So that's what we have here, minus a Zapruder-type film. Alternative fact types can make that kitchen scene whatever they want it to be. Dan Moldea tried a radio appearance in Las Vegas, pushing a notion that the famous 1958 Colts/Giants title game was fixed. He didn't fare well in that environment. I may have mentioned that here. Suddenly he was confronted not by alternative fact types but by ones who understood variables and probability. Unable to respond, he essentially wobbled off the stage.

The unfortunate truth is the way we experienced it in 1968: Sirhan Sirhan assassinated Robert Francis Kennedy. Acting alone.

[jOHnNyD]

I found this segment to be amazingly absurd, which sort of stunned me given unsolved's tendency to give light to credible conspiracy theories, especially ones that history has ignored. This is not one of them. The entire segment is riddled with analysis criticizing the ballistics report that the gun was fired at point blank range, but instead of dismissing it in light of the overwhelming evidence that Sirhan was simply not that close, most interviews try to explain it by the impossible second shooter theory. The logistical impossibility of a second shooter mere inches from RFK, between Sirhan Sirhan as he's firing in that direction, who then escapes unseen and unharmed leads me to dismiss the single ballistics report. Take that away and the entire account lines up.

The only credible interview here is with the police chief who seemed to be the only expert profiled who had a true working knowledge of the whole case.

Curiously Stack mentions in the beginning that "contrary to popular belief, there were no photos taken of the actual shooting." I know the controversy surrounding the photographer whose film was confiscated was not settled at this point, but that's a very definitive statement given that it was later proved photos were taken.

[Guardian]

Whatever actually happened, the fact remains that analysis of an audio recording that night confirm that more than 8 shots were fired. I forget the exact number they determined, but it was more than Sir Han's gun could hold. And yes, I know that conclusion has been challenged back and forth since the recording was first tested, but it still holds up because it has not been debunked with any degree of certainty.

Add to this the whole Scott Enyard account in which he was able to prove well enough to receive a settlement from the LAPD for both losing his photos and then lying about it, I would say that the matter is far from closed.

Maybe Sir Han acted alone. I don't know. But given the audio recordings, some sort of lie or cover up regarding the only known photos taken during the shooting going missing, various witness statements about what happened before and after the shooting, and the ballistics evidence not making any sense, this case is not quite explained away with "truth is stranger than fiction".

There may well have been only one shooter. Even if there was a conspiracy, it still logically only makes sense for there to be one shooter in this case. But there are too many things that just don't make sense that are remaining. At the very least there are many questions that need to be answered before this can actually be put to rest.

[Cori aka ChrisSCrush]

Originally Posted by jOHnNyD

Curiously Stack mentions in the beginning that "contrary to popular belief, there were no photos taken of the actual shooting." I know the controversy surrounding the photographer whose film was confiscated was not settled at this point, but that's a very definitive statement given that it was later proved photos were taken.

Can you point to where these might be found? I have seen only film of Kennedy already down and people screaming as attempts were made to take the gun away, plus pictures of Kennedy wounded and some of Sirhan after he was subdued--no film or stills of Sirhan firing a gun or Kennedy being struck that I can ever recall, and I have looked at a lot of pictures of this event!

[Cori aka ChrisSCrush]

Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger

I was in third grade and remember that train and everything else. I got up for school and tuned in my children's programming only to see a strange sight of a man standing atop a large white truck shouting into a megaphone. Within a few seconds of listening I realized Robert F. Kennedy had been shot. I had to wake my parents with the news. Then it was very somber at school that day and the next day. We didn't know if Kennedy would live, although it always sounded grim.

After his death my father stormed into my room and grabbed all the fake guns out of my huge toy chest and threw them away. I had a prized fake submachine gun. That went also. My dad was an incredible man.

Great story! I was out of Kindergarten at the time, a few months before entering First Grade, and this is the first national news event I recall!

[justins5256]

Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush

Can you point to where these might be found? I have seen only film of Kennedy already down and people screaming as attempts were made to take the gun away, plus pictures of Kennedy wounded and some of Sirhan after he was subdued--no film or stills of Sirhan firing a gun or Kennedy being struck that I can ever recall, and I have looked at a lot of pictures of this event!

I've done a lot of research in to the RFK assassination over the years and I can confirm there are no known photos or films of the assassination itself. Obviously, Scott Enyart came forward and claimed that he was in the kitchen pantry and taking pictures during the assassination, but his film was confiscated by LAPD that same night. When the proof sheet was returned to Enyart over twenty years later, it only showed one roll of film and there were no pictures of the assassination. Enyart claimed he took three rolls of film and that the police had omitted the majority of his photos. Enyart's claim of taking pictures during the assassination has been contradicted by his friends who claim he was standing with them in the ballroom at the time of the assassination and that he did not leave them to follow the Kennedy entourage in to the kitchen. Regardless, a jury in California found LAPD negligent in not returning the films and awarded Enyart monetary damages.

The California primary was extensively covered by the media including the big three, ABC, CBS, and NBC. I used to be pretty heavy in to tape trading years ago and managed to acquire several hours from each network of the night's events. All three were recording video during the assassination, but these cameras were stationed in the ballroom, and Kennedy was shot backstage in the kitchen pantry. The networks replayed these views several times throughout the evening, but you can't see anything. The crowds were dispersing as the event was pretty much over. Then, you hear people start screaming and see them rushing back in to the ballroom. It is obvious that something has happened, but you see nothing. At least one of the networks actually showed the police dragging Sirhan out in handcuffs and you hear people screaming things like "lynch him!" "get out of here!" and so on.

Interestingly, in the tapes, there is an interview with a young NBC technician who says that he watched Kennedy being shot on a camera monitor. I found this claim unusual, so I asked a friend of mine who is a historian. He confirmed this man's account was probably correct. In other words, there WERE television cameras in the kitchen pantry, but those feeds were not being videotaped. So, unfortunately, whatever those cameras captured is lost to history.

[Janel "Jaycee" Miller]

Originally Posted by sdb4884

Never saw this one before, the music with the funeral train was very moving.

Ditto.

[TheCars1986]

Always wanted to see this segment and when I did for the first time I was really disappointed. It was laughable how they tried to twist the fact that Sirhan didn't shoot him alone.

[justins5256]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Always wanted to see this segment and when I did for the first time I was really disappointed. It was laughable how they tried to twist the fact that Sirhan didn't shoot him alone.

Ironically, Dan Moldea, the investigator featured in the original RFK segment who was absolutely certain that there was a conspiracy wrote a book several years later asserting that Sirhan acted alone.

[Cori aka ChrisSCrush]

This was done on the 20th anniversary and the 50th is rapidly approaching.