Mary Tyler Moore definitely better after Rhoda left....

[JSP]

I liked the show better when Rhoda left and then later Phyllis. The focus of the show then shifted away from Mary's private life to the job. Say what you will, but Lou Grant and Ted Baxter-focused episodes are a lot more interesting to me than Mary's interactions with Phyllis or Rhoda! Murray-centric episodes were okay too. They had to give him something to do every now and then.

No one ever really talks about how after Rhoda leaves the show become more male-centric, and then they later did the same after the first two seasons of Rhoda. These are supposedly great feminist groundbreaking woman-centric shows! Yet over time the femininity of both was downplayed to emphasize the lives of the male characters.

I'm glad the spinoffs happened. We got two great shows instead of one. But there will always be people that say Rhoda should have never left, I know.

[Willbo]

I enjoyed the series before and after Rhoda. I did think that Mary needed a close friend in the later seasons. I have to say having Betty White come on as Sue Ann was pure gold.

[Dianne3]

I don't think viewers watching at the time would agree.
Viewership drastically dropped after season 5.
It was between Season 2 and 5 that MTM was at it's peak then.

I'm also not as into the later seasons like I am the earlier and mid seasons.
There was definitely a void with Mary not having a close friend to talk to.
I don't begrudge Rhoda leaving though.

[JSP]

Originally Posted by Dianne3

I don't think viewers watching at the time would agree.
Viewership drastically dropped after season 5.
It was between Season 2 and 5 that MTM was at it's peak then.

I'm also not as into the later seasons like I am the earlier and mid seasons.
There was definitely a void with Mary not having a close friend to talk to.
I don't begrudge Rhoda leaving though.

I think a lot of my perspective had to do with the fact that I got into watching the show last year for the first time and I first saw the Season 5 through 7 episodes, so it was my first experience of MTM. Then when the show cycled back to the early years, the show was drastically different with Rhoda and Phyllis. Guess I just have too much of a bias because I'm a guy...I will agree when both the Mary Tyler Moore and Rhoda shows lost their femininity, viewership declined. But me being a guy, I just can't help but think the shows were getting better anyway. Can't relate to Rhoda and Mary, but I can relate to Ted and Lou. Especially Ted.

[Bonniegirl]

I liked MTM a lot better with Rhoda! Even though I loved Rhoda's show (I liked it better than the Mary Tyler Moore show actually, was happy Rhoda got her own show, it was good, but sad she left MTM ) . Being a girl, I liked how they hung out in her apartment, and talked about guys, and hoped guys would call, and if not just have fun, go out or hang out, whatever! ETC! I think all females can relate to this. The later episodes she had no female friends, just the guys at work, and DANG, the girl needed a break from the work place! And Phyllis leaving too! I loved Sue Ann, she was really funny, a great addition to the show, but not really Mary's friend! (shout out to Betty White, love ya Betty )! And than when Mary moved out of her original apartment, oh that was it for me, the show really went downhill IMO!

[JSP]

Originally Posted by bonniegirl62

I liked MTM a lot better with Rhoda! Even though I loved Rhoda's show (I liked it better than the Mary Tyler Moore show actually, was happy Rhoda got her own show, it was good, but sad she left MTM ) . Being a girl, I liked how they hung out in her apartment, and talked about guys, and hoped guys would call, and if not just have fun, go out or hang out, whatever! ETC! I think all females can relate to this. The later episodes she had no female friends, just the guys at work, and DANG, the girl needed a break from the work place! And Phyllis leaving too! I loved Sue Ann, she was really funny, a great addition to the show, but not really Mary's friend! (shout out to Betty White, love ya Betty )! And than when Mary moved out of her original apartment, oh that was it for me, the show really went downhill IMO!

Watching the early episodes of MTM....it was clear they were making it about Mary and Rhoda and the office was just a sidenote, with Ted Baxter only appearing in one scene per episode. Bad idea. Ted Baxter was a far more interesting character and deserved more screen time. Luckily after Rhoda left we got to see more interesting storylines with Ted Baxter. It's a good thing they spun off Rhoda instead of Ted because I would have shifted to watching the Ted Baxter show and would have quit watching The Mary Tyler Moore Show altogether.

[OH Nuts!]

I remember watching TMTMS firsthand as a teen in the 70s and loving each and every minute; ALL of it was great. I loved Rhoda-she was an excellent complement to Mary, and if anything, the show was worse without her. I missed Rhoda when she left and was delighted Rhoda got a spin off.

[Bonniegirl]

Originally Posted by JSP

Watching the early episodes of MTM....it was clear they were making it about Mary and Rhoda and the office was just a sidenote, with Ted Baxter only appearing in one scene per episode. Bad idea. Ted Baxter was a far more interesting character and deserved more screen time. Luckily after Rhoda left we got to see more interesting storylines with Ted Baxter. It's a good thing they spun off Rhoda instead of Ted because I would have shifted to watching the Ted Baxter show and would have quit watching The Mary Tyler Moore Show altogether.

Yes, Ted was really funny!

[Bonniegirl]

Originally Posted by OH Nuts!

I remember watching TMTMS firsthand as a teen in the 70s and loving each and every minute; ALL of it was great. I loved Rhoda-she was an excellent complement to Mary, and if anything, the show was worse without her. I missed Rhoda when she left and was delighted Rhoda got a spin off.

Hi Oh Nuts


That is exactly how I feel!!!

[TVFactFan]

I couldn't get into MTM because it was presented as a workplace comedy but we would often see Mary at home all the time. That's why I liked Rhoda better

Like the Office was presented as a workplace comedy and that's exactly what it was

[Bonniegirl]

Originally Posted by JSP

Watching the early episodes of MTM....it was clear they were making it about Mary and Rhoda and the office was just a sidenote, with Ted Baxter only appearing in one scene per episode. Bad idea. Ted Baxter was a far more interesting character and deserved more screen time. Luckily after Rhoda left we got to see more interesting storylines with Ted Baxter. It's a good thing they spun off Rhoda instead of Ted because I would have shifted to watching the Ted Baxter show and would have quit watching The Mary Tyler Moore Show altogether.

Did you like Ted Knight in Too close for comfort? As Henry Rush. He was a husband and father of two girls in their early 20's , and later had a son. He wrote for a cartoon strip " Cosmic Cow"!

I actually liked him better here than on MTM!!! He was a sweetheart as a hubby and father!!!

[Will Dockery]

Originally Posted by bonniegirl62

Did you like Ted Knight in Too close for comfort? As Henry Rush. He was a husband and father of two girls in their early 20's , and later had a son. He wrote for a cartoon strip " Cosmic Cow"!

I actually liked him better here than on MTM!!! He was a sweetheart as a hubby and father!!!

I caught quite a few episodes of this recently... good stuff, and great to see Ted Knight's charm as a normal, relatively sane person.

[JSP]

Originally Posted by bonniegirl62

Did you like Ted Knight in Too close for comfort? As Henry Rush. He was a husband and father of two girls in their early 20's , and later had a son. He wrote for a cartoon strip " Cosmic Cow"!

I actually liked him better here than on MTM!!! He was a sweetheart as a hubby and father!!!

I watched it all the time when I got home from kindergarten when I was 5. That, Alice and Benson were important shows of my young childhood. Saw a few episodes of Too Close a few years back and it was okay. I like The Mary Tyler Moore Show more, of course. But if I stumbled upon TCFC on TV these days I would definitely watch it.

[JSP]

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

I couldn't get into MTM because it was presented as a workplace comedy but we would often see Mary at home all the time. That's why I liked Rhoda better

Like the Office was presented as a workplace comedy and that's exactly what it was

You know that's weird? I actually "Rhoda" more than MTM too. I never thought when I would see Rhoda and Mary interact together on MTM that I would ever like a show headlined by Rhoda, but I do. Strange Rhoda headlining alone is somehow better than Rhoda and Mary together. Truly the case of where the sum is not greater than the individual parts.

Maybe it's just because Brenda Morgenstern is so awesome and Julie Kavner is more of a comedian than Mary Tyler Moore if you ask me, so Rhoda and Brenda is a lot better than Mary and Rhoda in my personal opinion.

Mary is definitely the straight girl on the show. She is the straight person in an ensemble, and that's why MTM was so great in the later years. She was willing to let Lou and Murray and Ted and Sue have their moments while she was more a supporting character. It wasn't all Mary all the time.

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by JSP

You know that's weird? I actually "Rhoda" more than MTM too. I never thought when I would see Rhoda and Mary interact together on MTM that I would ever like a show headlined by Rhoda, but I do. Strange Rhoda headlining alone is somehow better than Rhoda and Mary together. Truly the case of where the sum is not greater than the individual parts.

Maybe it's just because Brenda Morgenstern is so awesome and Julie Kavner is more of a comedian than Mary Tyler Moore if you ask me, so Rhoda and Brenda is a lot better than Mary and Rhoda in my personal opinion.

Mary is definitely the straight girl on the show. She is the straight person in an ensemble, and that's why MTM was so great in the later years. She was willing to let Lou and Murray and Ted and Sue have their moments while she was more a supporting character. It wasn't all Mary all the time.

Exactly. you knew the Rhoda was the lead