They Hated Each Other!

[dougiezerts]

I recently heard a rumor that Penny Marshall and Cindy Williams didn't like each other very much! Is this true?

[robyrob]

I think the rumors have been blown way out of proportion - after several years of being on the show together, they had started to argue and get on each others nerves; they certainly didn't get along as well as they did in the beginning, but they obviously didn't hate each other because they still did the show and they both eagerly did the reunion special and have worked together many times since the show ended

[MrCleveland]

In the entertainment word people should get along with others whether they're opinions are different.

I'm going to broadcasting school and that's one thing I'm told!

[Babalu]

Cindy Williams resented Penny Marshall when the show became hugely successful. Cindy Williams was the cute straight one and Penny was the funny one. Not to mention that Lenny and Squiggy eventually became a phenomenon of their own. Plus, Penny's family ran the show. Cindy Williams' own insecurity got the best of her. Instead of being happy that she was the co-star of the number one show on TV that could have very well gotten along without her (see Pam Dawber) she demanded the show be rewritten so she had the funny lines and she be given the bigger dressing room, etc. Cindy Williams threw tantrums, walked off the set, and had her lawyers threaten she'd break her contract.

Penny Marshall's persona was naturally funny. It made no difference who had the funny lines because Penny Marshall was going to get the laughs. I have a feeling that in the past 30 years Cindy's realized how stupid she was as she faded into obscurity.

[Roxy LaTour]

Originally Posted by Babalu

Cindy Williams resented Penny Marshall when the show became hugely successful. Cindy Williams was the cute straight one and Penny was the funny one. Not to mention that Lenny and Squiggy eventually became a phenomenon of their own. Plus, Penny's family ran the show. Cindy Williams' own insecurity got the best of her. Instead of being happy that she was the co-star of the number one show on TV that could have very well gotten along without her (see Pam Dawber) she demanded the show be rewritten so she had the funny lines and she be given the bigger dressing room, etc. Cindy Williams threw tantrums, walked off the set, and had her lawyers threaten she'd break her contract.

Penny Marshall's persona was naturally funny. It made no difference who had the funny lines because Penny Marshall was going to get the laughs. I have a feeling that in the past 30 years Cindy's realized how stupid she was as she faded into obscurity.

Every single person involved with the show (Marshalls included) acknowledges the fact that it wouldn't have gone without Cindy, and I know I'm far from the only fan who feels the same way. Laverne and Shirley, Penny and Cindy were a team of equal importance to the show. The loss of Cindy was a death blow, and the season 8 dvds bear that out in living color. And ftr, Cindy's very happy, peaceful, working, and doing just fine, thanks.

[Mr. Television]

Originally Posted by Roxy LaTour

Every single person involved with the show (Marshalls included) acknowledges the fact that it wouldn't have gone without Cindy, and I know I'm far from the only fan who feels the same way. Laverne and Shirley, Penny and Cindy were a team of equal importance to the show. The loss of Cindy was a death blow, and the season 8 dvds bear that out in living color. And ftr, Cindy's very happy, peaceful, working, and doing just fine, thanks.

Yep. Both deserved credit for the success of the show. Look what happened to the show after Cindy left. It's barely watchable.

[Babalu]

Originally Posted by Roxy LaTour

Every single person involved with the show (Marshalls included) acknowledges the fact that it wouldn't have gone without Cindy, and I know I'm far from the only fan who feels the same way. Laverne and Shirley, Penny and Cindy were a team of equal importance to the show. The loss of Cindy was a death blow, and the season 8 dvds bear that out in living color. And ftr, Cindy's very happy, peaceful, working, and doing just fine, thanks.

My point is that Cindy Williams was easily replaceable as a talent, maybe not after 6 or 7 years of her being on the show because everyone was used to her. But there were plenty of actresses that could have started with that part and done just as well. Penny Marshall, on the other hand, was naturally funny and that's much harder to replace. And after all those years, the show ran its course.

[Roxy LaTour]

Originally Posted by Babalu

My point is that Cindy Williams was easily replaceable as a talent, maybe not after 6 or 7 years of her being on the show because everyone was used to her. But there were plenty of actresses that could have started with that part and done just as well. Penny Marshall, on the other hand, was naturally funny and that's much harder to replace. And after all those years, the show ran its course.

Your point is wrong. Go do some homework on the show. Read/watch the interviews with the people who worked on it, in front of and behind the camera. Every last person on that show cites that Cindy Williams was key from the beginning. Even Michael Eisner sings her praises, starting with the casting process. When Cindy initially declined, they tested a bunch of actresses for Shirley, eventually casting Liberty Williams-- no magic from any of them. Then Garry Marshall convinced Cindy to come in and test. They shot in front of an audience on the Happy Days set at the end of a taping and:

"It was unbelievable. I mean it was like one of those things that you rarely see on stage or anywhere. The place. went. crazy."

L&S creator/writer Mark Rothman says:

"Cindy and Tony Randall are the most impressive actors I've ever worked with. They were capable of making our words better than we could have imagined them being. They constantly surprised us with how much better they could make our stuff than we thought it could be made. They were the only two who I've ever seen do that, and they did it constantly. I love Cindy... She is brilliant. She is just. brilliant."

I could transcribe many many more such items, but bottom line: No one else had the chemistry with Penny or anything that Cindy had, period.

She is a genius comedic actress, not only able to deliver on her own, but lifting others up in scenes so that they have every possible chance to shine as well. Many of the biggest laughs of the show are from the contributions of Cindy Williams, and certainly not the script. Personally, some of my most beloved episodes are Shirley-centered, and it's because Cindy was doing what only she could do so well. She spun straw into gold every time she was on screen, and made what could have been a very weak character into a legend.

I'm glad she went to the mat to fight for Shirley because I can see that the writing had become unbalanced for a brief time (Laverne learns to drive, Laverne becomes a volunteer nurse to get a guy, Laverne might be pregnant, Laverne goes to jail, etc.). The writers were comfortable writing for Laverne-- many of them shared her background and voice-- it was easy. Shirley is a more complex character, or at least she is when she is written for. Left alone, Shirley could've ended up the Ethel of the duo, but because Cindy fought, we got two Lucys and the audience was the winner.

I mean, some crazy person could say that anyone could have replaced Penny too-- funny, tough girl types with a Brooklyn accent line the streets of Hollywood and Broadway-- but that doesn't make it accurate. Laverne and Shirley is Penny and Cindy. You can't do it without both. I get that you're a Penny fan, but trying to diminish Cindy to celebrate Penny is frankly so bizarre that it completely invalidates anything else you're trying to say. I kinda sense that I'm wasting my time here, because if you're so far gone as to not be able to acknowledge her unique talent, then this is unlikely to penetrate either. Either that or this is all a big troll. Not sure which I'm rooting for.

[dougiezerts]

I agree. Cindy was perfect as Shirley. And with her leaving, the show lost something big.

[PennyMarshallFan]

Originally Posted by Roxy LaTour

Your point is wrong. Go do some homework on the show. Read/watch the interviews with the people who worked on it, in front of and behind the camera. Every last person on that show cites that Cindy Williams was key from the beginning. Even Michael Eisner sings her praises, starting with the casting process. When Cindy initially declined, they tested a bunch of actresses for Shirley, eventually casting Liberty Williams-- no magic from any of them. Then Garry Marshall convinced Cindy to come in and test. They shot in front of an audience on the Happy Days set at the end of a taping and:

"It was unbelievable. I mean it was like one of those things that you rarely see on stage or anywhere. The place. went. crazy."

L&S creator/writer Mark Rothman says:

"Cindy and Tony Randall are the most impressive actors I've ever worked with. They were capable of making our words better than we could have imagined them being. They constantly surprised us with how much better they could make our stuff than we thought it could be made. They were the only two who I've ever seen do that, and they did it constantly. I love Cindy... She is brilliant. She is just. brilliant."

I could transcribe many many more such items, but bottom line: No one else had the chemistry with Penny or anything that Cindy had, period.

She is a genius comedic actress, not only able to deliver on her own, but lifting others up in scenes so that they have every possible chance to shine as well. Many of the biggest laughs of the show are from the contributions of Cindy Williams, and certainly not the script. Personally, some of my most beloved episodes are Shirley-centered, and it's because Cindy was doing what only she could do so well. She spun straw into gold every time she was on screen, and made what could have been a very weak character into a legend.

I'm glad she went to the mat to fight for Shirley because I can see that the writing had become unbalanced for a brief time (Laverne learns to drive, Laverne becomes a volunteer nurse to get a guy, Laverne might be pregnant, Laverne goes to jail, etc.). The writers were comfortable writing for Laverne-- many of them shared her background and voice-- it was easy. Shirley is a more complex character, or at least she is when she is written for. Left alone, Shirley could've ended up the Ethel of the duo, but because Cindy fought, we got two Lucys and the audience was the winner.

I mean, some crazy person could say that anyone could have replaced Penny too-- funny, tough girl types with a Brooklyn accent line the streets of Hollywood and Broadway-- but that doesn't make it accurate. Laverne and Shirley is Penny and Cindy. You can't do it without both. I get that you're a Penny fan, but trying to diminish Cindy to celebrate Penny is frankly so bizarre that it completely invalidates anything else you're trying to say. I kinda sense that I'm wasting my time here, because if you're so far gone as to not be able to acknowledge her unique talent, then this is unlikely to penetrate either. Either that or this is all a big troll. Not sure which I'm rooting for.

I wholeheartedly agree!!!!

I am a Penny fan and I KNOW that L&S needed BOTH Penny and Cindy. Season 8 is god awful. Penny didn't want to continue without Cindy either. It's Laverne and Shirley, it's Penny and Cindy. Season 8 really should not have ever happened.

I mean...the last episode being a Carmine episode. Penny herself barely had any lines in that episode.

Penny Marshall and Cindy Williams together are what made that show great. As well as Michael McKean and David Lander (they created Lenny and Squiggy...how could any one else have played them?). It was the right group of people at the right time. All of them were perfect and special.

[gopyle]

I have not watched much Laverne and Shirley for a number of years, but thinking back, it is easy to recognize that the two actresses were a true comedy team and each was equally important. It is easy to understand that people who work together long enough can get into situations where they feel slighted or don't get along. Unfortunate, but often true, and not just in Hollywood.

[tlc38tlc38]

Honestly, I don't really care if they got a long off-screen or not. The fact is they were a comedy team on-screen and one of the best comedy teams ever. They fed off of each other brilliantly.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by robyrob

I think the rumors have been blown way out of proportion - after several years of being on the show together, they had started to argue and get on each others nerves; they certainly didn't get along as well as they did in the beginning, but they obviously didn't hate each other because they still did the show and they both eagerly did the reunion special and have worked together many times since the show ended

This is an old interview with Erin Moran. At 23:10, she says Penny Marshall and Cindy Williams hated one another. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBchwn37dss

[ILuvCarolBurnett]

Originally Posted by LittleRickyII

This is an old interview with Erin Moran. At 23:10, she says Penny Marshall and Cindy Williams hated one another. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBchwn37dss

I think HATE is a harsh word. And Erin Moran I would not consider the most reliable source.

[PracTz]

It seems to me that Miss Marshall and Miss Williams didn't always get along offscreen but consistently did put on a funny, well-crafted show until Miss Williams was no longer there. In any case, they appear to have put their differences aside and have become friends again in recent years so that's the bottom line.