Felice's missing scene

[RetroGuy2000]

In the original broadcast episode of "Overachieving", there is a scene where Nancy helps Tootie pack her suitcase, while they are in Tootie/Natalie's room. I've just noticed that this scene is missing on the DVD version, and hence the YouTube version as well.

In the scene, Nancy suggests items for Tootie to pack. Tootie sarcastically says something about Nancy is helping to push her out the door. Nancy apologizes, and says it's because she's kind of OCD. The scene occurs at 13:56 into the episode, just before Tootie rollerskates over to her dresser to grab some more clothes.

I was wondering if anyone else noticed other missing scenes involving the Lost Girls; it's clear by the end of Season One, the producers had reduced the Nancy character to basically wallpaper, but to go even further and cut part of her role out of an existing episode for the DVD release is not nice. Although this edit is short, it actually reveals a bit more about Nancy than what we knew before: that she sometimes gets nervous and compulsive. And by cutting out this scene, it makes it senseless for her to have been in Tootie's room in this scene in the first place. She only has one other line in the three-minute scene.

This missing scene lends credence to my theory that Julie Anne Haddock's part was cut out of "Fear Strikes Back".

['80sSitcoms]

Wow!

So you remembered this from memory from eons ago? Or were you having lunch with Felice and she gave you "the dish"? lol Great job remembering!

That's so fascinating, and disheartening...why in the world wouldn't they include it in the DVD version?? It's like they just used the syndicated version for the set, and didn't get the master cut. Yikes, I sure hope it's the only one like that...I wonder if it's running time is a bit noticeably shorter than the other season 1 shows?

Now that I think about it, in most of the season 1 shows, I noticed "extra footage" that had originally been cut from the broadcast syndicated versions. However, I don't recall having noticed any extra footage in "Rough Housing", but I definitely notice some in several other shows.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

Wow!

So you remembered this from memory from eons ago? Or were you having lunch with Felice and she gave you "the dish"? lol Great job remembering!

I wish I could have lunch with Felice! But I would ask way too many questions.

I remember some very, very weird things. I can't explain it. I will also tell you that I remember both Hugh Gillin and Pamela Segall occasionally appeared, fully credited, in the opening credits during seasons 2 and 5, respectively. Just in the episodes where they appeared. I don't know if that was only during the original broadcast, or later in syndication, but I will tell you they do not appear in the opening credits on the DVDs now.

Aha! Proof I'm not crazy! *relieved*

That's so fascinating, and disheartening...why in the world wouldn't they include it in the DVD version?? It's like they just used the syndicated version for the set, and didn't get the master cut. Yikes, I sure hope it's the only one like that...I wonder if it's running time is a bit noticeably shorter than the other season 1 shows?

I think you're right about them (accidentally?) using a syndication copy rather than the master cut. Which is a shame, because it gives more insight into Nancy's character. There may be other cuts, but aside from Felice's 30-second part here, and the cuts made to Hugh Gillin's and Pamela's Segall's opening credits, and a possible scene cut for Julie Anne (based only on photo evidence), and some wonky (original?) editing of Julie Pie and Julie Anne, removing part of their scene from "Front Page", I can't pinpoint any others off the top of my head. I do know I've seen many TV shows with shortened episodes in syndication, where I was all, 'huh?', expecting to see a scene that wasn't there anymore. But it's irritating to find these mistakes on the supposedly 'uncut' DVD releases. (Still, I'm glad to have the DVD releases, and YouTube).

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I will also tell you that I remember both Hugh Gillin and Pamela Segall occasionally appeared, fully credited, in the opening credits during seasons 2 and 5, respectively. Just in the episodes where they appeared. I don't know if that was only during the original broadcast, or later in syndication, but I will tell you they do not appear in the opening credits on the DVDs now.

But Pamela does appear in the opening credits for the season 5 DVDs. But Hugh Gillin as "Howard" did in season 2?? WOW! I totally don't remember that. I too have a very odd and far-spanning memory, but I don't remember the Lost Nancy Scene or Hugh's opening credit.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Aha! Proof I'm not crazy! *relieved*

WHOA! Photo evidence of a Lost Scene! That is WAY too cool! AND the accompanying dialogue!

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I think you're right about them (accidentally?) using a syndication copy rather than the master cut. Which is a shame, because it gives more insight into Nancy's character.

Yeah, the one girl who could use the most help into personalizing her character, and they cut her!

Oh Nancy, in "Running" when Natalie asked you what you do when you're upset, why didn't you say "I straighten things"??

So now we do know what she does when she's upset---how cool!

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

and a possible scene cut for Julie Anne (based only on photo evidence), and some wonky (original?) editing of Julie Pie and Julie Anne, removing part of their scene from "Front Page",

Well, that one may not be an "edit" in the same sense. That could have just been a re-take and when it was spliced together, Julie Anne had been sitting in a different place for the retake or something. Things sometimes look like this on "Mama's Family" because MF taped each episode twice, and spliced together the best parts of each run to make the best composite episode. FOL probably (but we don't know for sure) didn't do that, so it could have been an edit "out", or it could have been an edit re-take and they weren't all in the same positions or something. Just a possibility.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

But Pamela does appear in the opening credits for the season 5 DVDs.

Not too long ago, I happened to catch the FOL Halloween episode on TV, and she was uncredited in the opening. But, yes, I can see now that she is credited on the DVDs.

But Hugh Gillin as "Howard" did in season 2?? WOW! I totally don't remember that. I too have a very odd and far-spanning memory, but I don't remember the Lost Nancy Scene or Hugh's opening credit.

The Lost Nancy Scene really bugs me now. Arg!

WHOA! Photo evidence of a Lost Scene! That is WAY too cool! AND the accompanying dialogue!

I'm really glad I was able to find the evidence, because that would have driven me crazy, not knowing for sure if I really did remember it, or just imagined it. I'm glad to say my memory is still pretty sharp.

Yeah, the one girl who could use the most help into personalizing her character, and they cut her!

No, that would be Molly, still.

Oh Nancy, in "Running" when Natalie asked you what you do when you're upset, why didn't you say "I straighten things"??

Because she is also psychic, and knew they were going to cut her lines in "Overachieving" in syndication.

So now we do know what she does when she's upset---how cool!

Yes, and we can now both die in peace knowing that Nancy gets all OCD when she's upset. Maybe that's why she didn't want to talk about it in "Running". Bwah!

Well, that one may not be an "edit" in the same sense. That could have just been a re-take and when it was spliced together, Julie Anne had been sitting in a different place for the retake or something. Things sometimes look like this on "Mama's Family" because MF taped each episode twice, and spliced together the best parts of each run to make the best composite episode. FOL probably (but we don't know for sure) didn't do that, so it could have been an edit "out", or it could have been an edit re-take and they weren't all in the same positions or something. Just a possibility.

But it's not just Julie Anne, it's also Julie Pie. Watch from 15:20 to 18:45. Julie Pie walks past Jo, then Jo sits down with Nat, and they talk. Then Cindy and Sue Ann sit down with Jo and congratulate her on the story. Nat walks up and takes credit. Blair and Tootie walk into the cafeteria; at this point, 16:28, Jo, Cindy, and Sue Ann are still sitting at the table. At 16:29, we should see the tops of Jo's and Sue Ann's heads... but we see only Jo's head.

Jo and Tootie argue, at that point, while Cindy sort of smirks at Jo's comment. At 16:36, we see a blonde girl's head sitting at the table closest to the window. (This turns out to be Sue Ann).

Tootie walks up, and Sue Ann is suddenly no longer at the table, though we never saw or heard her leave. At 16:41, Cindy is still at the table. At 16:43, two seconds later, Cindy is also no longer at the table; her arm, in a blue sweater, should be visible alongside Jo's. At 16:54, we can see Cindy sitting behind Jo at the Lost Girls' Table (apparently the same table where they licked envelopes together in "Gossip"). At 17:52, Sue Ann can be seen sitting further back in the cafeteria, near the windows. She could not have walked to those windows from the Main Girls' table without appearing on camera, so something was cut out.

And yes, different takes could have been done (and likely were), but there still should have been footage of Sue Ann and Cindy getting up from the table and moving to other tables. But those girls had unfortunately become such background characters by this point that their movements apparently weren't all that important to the director and editors. They weren't speaking anymore, so they ceased to exist.

For five years.

This was their last scene, as semi-regulars. Their last scene in this episode should have been a little better.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Not too long ago, I happened to catch the FOL Halloween episode on TV, and she was uncredited in the opening. But, yes, I can see now that she is credited on the DVDs.

Well I like it better if she's not credited, because I never liked her, lol.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

The Lost Nancy Scene really bugs me now. Arg!

I know, me too!

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

No, that would be Molly, still.

Well, I still say Nancy. Molly is a feminist, an environmentalist, and a hobbyist, with an individual style of dress none of the other girls wear. She had so much more going for her and more potential than Nancy did. The most descriptive I've seen of poor wallpaper Nancy in print is "all-American" and "level-headed". The writing on the wall! If it weren't for Roger she would have had basically nothing to say. Again, "Alas, poor Felice!"

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

This was their last scene, as semi-regulars. Their last scene in this episode should have been a little better.

Yeah, I remember noticing the things you describe when I watch this episode, and it would have been nice if the director had "smoothed things out" more for better continuity.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

Well I like it better if she's not credited, because I never liked her, lol.

Well, I'm totally against the idea of hiring another actress when a couple of seasons earlier, they were complaining that there were too many actresses. That's an insult to the Lost Girls.

At the same time, if someone is appearing in ten episodes in a season, he/she deserves to be in the opening credits, at least in the episodes where s/he appears. (It is weird that Pamela Segall appears in the opening credits of two episodes where she doesn't even appear).

Well, I still say Nancy. Molly is a feminist, an environmentalist, and a hobbyist, with an individual style of dress none of the other girls wear. She had so much more going for her and more potential than Nancy did. The most descriptive I've seen of poor wallpaper Nancy in print is "all-American" and "level-headed". The writing on the wall! If it weren't for Roger she would have had basically nothing to say. Again, "Alas, poor Felice!"

Nancy is the racy one, who goes further with Roger than anyone else is willing to go with their boyfriends... even Blair. As the boy-crazy one, there were many directions her character could have gone. She's the star of the school play, so she can act, too. As a scholarship student, she has to work hard to keep her grades up to remain in good grace at Eastland. She's also slightly OCD, and at times nervous. And yet she's also generous and kind to her friends. Yet, get her jealous and her angry streak comes out! She also tends to be judgmental of those outside her immediate clique. To me, this type of multifaceted character, one who refuses to be placed in a narrow category like "jock" or "snob", is more interesting that a one-dimensional "activist" character whose only real interests are Ham radio and photography.

You gave much-needed depth to Molly Parker in your excellent "FOL Re-imagined" thread, and that's a tribute to your creativity and talent more than anything the writers ever actually did with Molly Parker. You fleshed the character out, and gave her depth. You demonstrated where they could have gone with the character, rather than where they did actually go, which was nowhere. The poor girl only got one episode to shine before being shipped off to a place so far off that even her Ham radio couldn't keep her in communication with Eastland. No wonder Molly Ringwald won't do reunions or recollect on her happy memories of a show where she was so marginalized.

Now, it's true that the writers did almost nothing with the character of Nancy during the second half of Season One. As we know, she was barely allowed to speak, and that situation remained, with the one exception of "Gossip", for the rest of the episodes she was in. But there was more to this girl than the wallpaper lines she was allowed to speak in later episodes. She was multi-faceted, and thus her character couldn't be easily pinned down as "the streetwise one" or "the activist" in brief character summaries in newspaper articles.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Well, I'm totally against the idea of hiring another actress when a couple of seasons earlier, they were complaining that there were too many actresses. That's an insult to the Lost Girls.

This reminds me of what Kim Fields says in one of the FOL documentaries, when it came to George, Andy, Pippa, etc. She says something to the effect of (talking as if she's speaking to the producers), "Do y'all remember in 1979 when this show started and you fired half the cast, and now you're wanting to add more people back in?"

I take issue with what she says, though. Adding more cast members later in a series when it's been on for several seasons is completely different. You already have your established main cast, with whom the audience is completely familiar, so it's easy to add new cast members into an already well-established mix. You can take time to get know the new ones while watching them interact with the familiar ones. Case in Point, "Cheers". Gradually Frasier, Woody, Lillith, Rebecca, and Kelly were added in.

My sister also thinks Kim may have a personal issue by feeling "threatened" or "crowded out" with them adding new younger cast members (Andy, Pippa), since Kim had been "the baby" of the group for several years, always having been the youngest actor and character, her "special niche". Of course we can't know for sure unless someone asks Kim, but that is a very credible theory.

As for Nancy and Molly, well, it looks like we're two viewers seeing more facets to each one over the other, lol.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Nancy is the racy one, who goes further with Roger than anyone else is willing to go with their boyfriends... even Blair.

In "The Facts of Love", one could say it seems implied that Blair and Sue Ann have gone farther than Nancy. This could be personal interpretation, though.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

As the boy-crazy one

To me she's "a" boy-crazy one, not "the" boy-crazy one. It's kind of like she just happens to be the one boy-crazy one who had a steady boyfriend, lol. Thank goodness they created the off-screen Roger for her though, otherwise who knows how even less she may have had to do?

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

She's the star of the school play, so she can act, too.

Which unfortunately is never even a part of FOL itself ("The Girls School"). And how funny a couple of seasons later Nancy is begging Tootie to try out for the star in the school play because "the play needs you!" If they had paid attention to "The Girls School" they may have made it a Nancy vs Tootie episode instead of Natalie, lol.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

As a scholarship student, she has to work hard to keep her grades up to remain in good grace at Eastland. She's also slightly OCD, and at times nervous. And yet she's also generous and kind to her friends.

I wish they had made that first one a point in "I.Q."; she could have had a really nice heart-to-heart with Mrs. Garrett about that and they could have really focused on her character. Instead, who gets the real heart-to-heart with Mrs. Garrett? Sue Ann, who will also get one in "Dieting".

I guess what I experience is that while a character like Molly has several lines in most episodes, showing her personality more (i.e., she speaks more about feminism than Nancy does about being OCD/nervous), in several episodes Nancy doesn't have much at all, and some of these attributes of hers are passing instances one can almost miss if they blink. The writers just kind of drop her a few bread crumbs here and there.

But you could really do a great dissertation on Nancy Olson.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Yet, get her jealous and her angry streak comes out!

Boy does it, lol; although this doesn't appear until after season one, "too little, too late". Too bad there wasn't a Roger/jealousy thing in season one.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

She also tends to be judgmental of those outside her immediate clique.

I take it you mean "Sex Symbol", where not only she, but all the Lost Girls there are suddenly "mean girls". I know some fans are very offended by that. I'm not, but it is kind of surprising in a way they're that catty.

What does offend me though is what a jerk the writers wrote Nancy being in regards to Natalie's situation in "Adoption". When she's so intense about being on the phone with Roger, and Molly exasperatingly says they're waiting on the call from Natalie's real mother, Nancy groans with annoyed disinterest, "Oh, is that all?", complete with dismissive facial expression. Come on writers, as Natalie's friend who has shown sensitivity to her friends in the past, she wouldn't be like that about it. Ugh.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

To me, this type of multifaceted character, one who refuses to be placed in a narrow category like "jock" or "snob", is more interesting that a one-dimensional "activist" character whose only real interests are Ham radio and photography.

That seems like a point the show had though, for girls to identify with one of the girls by "type". The snob, the tomboy, the class clown, the farm girl, the baby, the feminist, and the..."All-American" girl or the "level-headed" one? Like the gods in Greek mythology, I like it when characters have one strong trait that makes them stand apart, while having other layers.

I always thought it was unfortunately bland, and an insult from the writers, that she didn't fit in a mold, unless you want to count "the one who had a steady boyfriend". Where you see Nancy as multi-faceted, I see just "hints" they gave (or bread crumbs, lol) and I see Molly as more multi-faceted, and as one of the most unique personalities among the girls; this is also in part to Molly having often more lines than Nancy. She stands out to me much more than Nancy (well, they all do). A lot of girls are boy-crazy, while Molly is not; she is very technical/hobby-minded, something none of the other girls display, as she takes well to learning ham radios and cameras and the guitar. She is very conscientious about the environment, and human rights, of which the former inspires her to become a budding folk musician to take a stand against environmental abuse, and she is also very conscientious about women's rights, which already at such a young age has her taking the "outsider" path of not following what a lot of girls do: fashion, make-up, and settling to be "second-class" to males, and pleasing them. Related to that, she will not marry a man based on his status, she will create her own status and make her own way in a man's world, forcing them to respect and accept her. And she wants to be sexually aggressive in an adult relationship! lol

I just gravitate more toward what we're given of Molly, than what we are of Nancy, and you vice versa. Molly's not even my favorite Lost Girl (nor Nancy yours), but if I were in school I would be willing to do a research paper on her as well just like you would Nancy, lol.

Thanks for your compliments, and please know I'm not a Nancy-hater, lol, or saying "you're wrong". I would love to have seen her really take off and be her own stand-out character. "Gossip" is a nice look at "the Nancy that could have been". Molly is just more interesting and a bigger impact on me, as Nancy is for you.

[zypherix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo4U...ature=youtu.be This scene?

['80sSitcoms]

Oh, WOW! THANK YOU zypherix!! I literally have not seen that since I was a child!

What a gem!!

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by zypherix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo4U...ature=youtu.be This scene?

YES! That's the one!!! Thank you!

['80sSitcoms]

I have just been informed by a reliable source (i.e., a friend who bought the complete series) that this missing scene from "Overachieving" has been restored to the episode!

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

I have just been informed by a reliable source (i.e., a friend who bought the complete series) that this missing scene from "Overachieving" has been restored to the episode!

Woah! They really pulled out all the stops for these new releases! That's awesome news!

['80sSitcoms]

Oh my gosh, I had forgotten this from this scene, that our family had a suitcase EXACTLY LIKE THIS! When my sister or I would go up to stay with our maternal grandparents in the summer and for some holiday breaks, THIS is the suitcase we would take! Blue with the rounded edges and that ruffly "pocket" that ran the length from side to side that was always fun to put stuff in. And it had silver metal latch thingies that you fastened when you closed it. It was always fun using that suitcase.

And it was the same kind used for this scene! SO cool!!

-

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

Oh my gosh, I had forgotten this from this scene, that our family had a suitcase EXACTLY LIKE THIS! When my sister or I would go up to stay with our maternal grandparents in the summer and for some holiday breaks, THIS is the suitcase we would take! Blue with the rounded edges and that ruffly "pocket" that ran the length from side to side that was always fun to put stuff in. And it had silver metal latch thingies that you fastened when you closed it. It was always fun using that suitcase.

And it was the same kind used for this scene! SO cool!!

-

Very cool!

Yeah, my mom had a similar (though not identical) blue suitcase, with the metal latches. Still does, I'm pretty sure.

I like to think that Tootie gave Nancy this suitcase when Nancy left Eastland. Tootie had no use for it, after all: she stayed in Peekskill for what must have been at least ten years!