Sometimes Mike was annoying and hypocritical - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

douglasjc · 12-28-2013, 12:51 AM

Norman Lear wanted Mike to be the good guy but sometimes he was just plain annoying and wrong. He talked about civil rights probably to make him feel better but he talked down to people. He treated Gloria like a slave which exposed him as a fake. Mike wanted to looked at as hero the reality was he sometimes did not practiced what he preached. I am not saying that Mike was all wrong but he really did treat the Bunkers including his wife as he was above it all.

OH Nuts! · 12-28-2013, 01:16 AM

Absolutely. Like when he gets bent out of shape when Gloria makes the first move or when he freaks out in ep #69 "The Games Bunkers Play"

Hughsgirl · 12-28-2013, 11:01 AM

I couldn't agree more! I detested the character of Mike throughout the entire series. To me he was also very lazy. I have never understood why he was unable to work while going to school. Archie was a very hard worker and earned every thing he aquired, unlike Mike, who was a nasty looking, criticizing disrespecting mooch! That was Archie's home and yet so many times he told him what he should and shouldn't do. Case in point, when he and the rest went against Archie buying a gun for the house. That SOB drove me up the wall with his BS rantings. I could go on and on about this jackass, but I won't. He was just an ignorant hippy.

OH Nuts! · 12-28-2013, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hughsgirl

I couldn't agree more! I detested the character of Mike throughout the entire series. To me he was also very lazy. I have never understood why he was unable to work while going to school. Archie was a very hard worker and earned every thing he aquired, unlike Mike, who was a nasty looking, criticizing disrespecting mooch! That was Archie's home and yet so many times he told him what he should and shouldn't do. Case in point, when he and the rest went against Archie buying a gun for the house. That SOB drove me up the wall with his BS rantings. I could go on and on about this jackass, but I won't. He was just an ignorant hippy.

I'm no great fan of Mike but I don't see him quite as harshly as you do. True, some industrious people do manage to go to school and work, but IT'S VERY HARD to do. As long as someone either works hard or gets good grades while going to school, I don't see them as lazy. And Mike did apply himself to school, so I have to give him credit there. But he is annoyingly smug, hypocritical and can dish it out but can't take it. Seeing his response to criticism in the ep I mentioned above is priceless. And yes, he should have been more diplomatic/respectful of Archie. The bottom line: he was LIVING in Archie's house and could have been a lot more tactful.

tlc38tlc38 · 12-28-2013, 12:55 PM

I think in making Mike (and Archie) the way he was was part of the genius of Norman Lear. It just goes to show that no matter what religion, race, etc. that you are, there is good AND bad in everyone. It's what you choose to do with the good AND bad that make you a caring person.

Retro4Life · 12-28-2013, 04:33 PM

Archie and Mike were both created as complex, imperfect human beings, as they should have been. Archie was pigheaded, racist,hot tempered and rude. He was also loyal, a loving husband and father, hard working, sentimental and usually stuck to his moral guns.

Mike was arrogant, hypocritical, stubborn and naive. He was also a compassionate and caring human being, who did love his wife, Edith and even Archie, let's be honest.

Lear did NOT intend Mike to be the "hero" anymore than he intended Archie to be. He wanted to create a realistic portrayal of a complex family in the 70's and he succeeded, in droves.

As for the Mike haters, what kind of a show would it have been had Mike meekly nodded and grumbled off camera when Archie went on a rant? A pretty boring and unsuccessful one, I'd say. It's a mistake to blithely gloss over all of Archie's faults and demonize Mike for his. They were HUMAN BEINGS who made mistakes and had triumphs, just like you and me. That was Lear's genius.

douglasjc · 12-28-2013, 04:48 PM

I think Mike's finest moments came when he tried to help Edith deal with the murder of Beverly La Salle and trying to make Edith understand while Archie forged her name to get a loan to buy the bar.

Where he angered me is how he treated Gloria in respect to their relationship including blaming her for getting pregnant. He came around to Gloria having a baby but he started off like a self centered jerk. There was an episode that he had a friend to dinner but wanted her to stay out of their chess game or have any part of the discussion.

Then When they moved to California basically ignored her making her feel less then a person. I do not blame her for becoming friends with Bud Kriger which caused them to break up in Christmas 1978.

In end I am not surprised they divorced because Mike and Gloria were just to different. Mike really did not include his wife in his life

TheCars1986 · 12-31-2013, 11:35 AM

That's what made Mike likeable, IMO. Without the hypocrisy, he would have came off as an arrogant know-it-all. Being a hypocrite made him human.

cleverfun3000 · 12-31-2013, 01:20 PM

OH Nuts! · 12-31-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleverfun3000

You have a good point! I know I'd go bananas.

comedyfreak · 01-02-2014, 01:05 PM

Gloria put him in his place every now and then.

Cobain · 02-06-2014, 02:09 PM

Mike's character was completely exposed in two episodes:

"The Games Bunkers Play" (Season 4) - Came off as being intolerant of other's opinions

"New Year's Wedding" (Season 6) - How domineering he was as a husband

The funny thing is that Mike's character actually left Gloria and their son (that was explained by the show, but never shown) to go live in a commune. Mike always was critical of Archie, but at least Archie was man enough to take care and provide for his wife and daughter, not to mention Steffie when she came to live in the house.

I'm assuming the producers wanted Mike to be loved and Archie hated by the viewers, but in reality Mike was more hated than Archie. The producers of this show probably didn't understand the audience that was watching the show. In their liberal minds they probably assumed everyone that was watching believed in Mike's garbage.

Retro4Life · 02-08-2014, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobain

I'm assuming the producers wanted Mike to be loved and Archie hated by the viewers, but in reality Mike was more hated than Archie.

I think you would be incorrect in that assumption, and interviews with Lear give weight to my feeling. He loved Archie, really, and based him on guys he knew when he was young. The fact that he made Archie imperfect, as he did Mike, was testament to his creative genius.

It always cracks me up when I read that people think one of them was RIGHT or WRONG all the time. That's not what the show was trying to say. It was a portrait of a complex 1970's American family, not a showcase for liberal beliefs or strident preaching. If Lear had truly tried to glorify Mike, he would have never put him in the position of being a hypocrite, and he did that on MANY occasions.

Mr. Television · 02-09-2014, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro4Life

I think you would be incorrect in that assumption, and interviews with Lear give weight to my feeling. He loved Archie, really, and based him on guys he knew when he was young. The fact that he made Archie imperfect, as he did Mike, was testament to his creative genius.

It always cracks me up when I read that people think one of them was RIGHT or WRONG all the time. That's not what the show was trying to say. It was a portrait of a complex 1970's American family, not a showcase for liberal beliefs or strident preaching. If Lear had truly tried to glorify Mike, he would have never put him in the position of being a hypocrite, and he did that on MANY occasions.

I totally agree. The reason the show was a huge success with the American audience was that it showed faults in both sides. Today's producers could learn some things from Norman Lear.

OH Nuts! · 02-09-2014, 11:53 AM

Exactly. It was the clever exposure of each man's faults and virtues that made them more human, and embraceable. Archie's mellowing and Michael's closed -mindedness helped balance their respective reactionary and liberal leanings, resp. Lear was a genius.

12-28-2013, 12:51 AM	#1
douglasjc Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 26, 2003 Posts: 318	Sometimes Mike was annoying and hypocritical Norman Lear wanted Mike to be the good guy but sometimes he was just plain annoying and wrong. He talked about civil rights probably to make him feel better but he talked down to people. He treated Gloria like a slave which exposed him as a fake. Mike wanted to looked at as hero the reality was he sometimes did not practiced what he preached. I am not saying that Mike was all wrong but he really did treat the Bunkers including his wife as he was above it all.

12-28-2013, 12:55 PM	#5
tlc38tlc38 Every day’s a Dolly day! Forum Star Join Date: May 02, 2008 Location: I’m just travelin’ thru Posts: 19,257	I think in making Mike (and Archie) the way he was was part of the genius of Norman Lear. It just goes to show that no matter what religion, race, etc. that you are, there is good AND bad in everyone. It's what you choose to do with the good AND bad that make you a caring person.
	__________________ Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. Deuteronomy 15:10 In loving memory of my best friend, my Mama.

01-02-2014, 01:05 PM	#11
comedyfreak Cheers! Forum Fanatic Join Date: Dec 14, 2005 Location: Sunny California Posts: 11,059	Gloria put him in his place every now and then.
	__________________ www.facebook.com/comedyfreak

02-06-2014, 02:09 PM	#12
Cobain Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 26, 2010 Location: 469 Posts: 55	Mike's character was completely exposed in two episodes: "The Games Bunkers Play" (Season 4) - Came off as being intolerant of other's opinions "New Year's Wedding" (Season 6) - How domineering he was as a husband The funny thing is that Mike's character actually left Gloria and their son (that was explained by the show, but never shown) to go live in a commune. Mike always was critical of Archie, but at least Archie was man enough to take care and provide for his wife and daughter, not to mention Steffie when she came to live in the house. I'm assuming the producers wanted Mike to be loved and Archie hated by the viewers, but in reality Mike was more hated than Archie. The producers of this show probably didn't understand the audience that was watching the show. In their liberal minds they probably assumed everyone that was watching believed in Mike's garbage.
	Last edited by Cobain; 02-06-2014 at 02:32 PM.

12-28-2013, 01:16 AM	#2
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	Absolutely. Like when he gets bent out of shape when Gloria makes the first move or when he freaks out in ep #69 "The Games Bunkers Play"

12-28-2013, 11:01 AM	#3
Hughsgirl Member Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 22, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 804	I couldn't agree more! I detested the character of Mike throughout the entire series. To me he was also very lazy. I have never understood why he was unable to work while going to school. Archie was a very hard worker and earned every thing he aquired, unlike Mike, who was a nasty looking, criticizing disrespecting mooch! That was Archie's home and yet so many times he told him what he should and shouldn't do. Case in point, when he and the rest went against Archie buying a gun for the house. That SOB drove me up the wall with his BS rantings. I could go on and on about this jackass, but I won't. He was just an ignorant hippy.

12-28-2013, 04:33 PM	#6
Retro4Life Accept No Substitutes Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 04, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 6,708	Archie and Mike were both created as complex, imperfect human beings, as they should have been. Archie was pigheaded, racist,hot tempered and rude. He was also loyal, a loving husband and father, hard working, sentimental and usually stuck to his moral guns. Mike was arrogant, hypocritical, stubborn and naive. He was also a compassionate and caring human being, who did love his wife, Edith and even Archie, let's be honest. Lear did NOT intend Mike to be the "hero" anymore than he intended Archie to be. He wanted to create a realistic portrayal of a complex family in the 70's and he succeeded, in droves. As for the Mike haters, what kind of a show would it have been had Mike meekly nodded and grumbled off camera when Archie went on a rant? A pretty boring and unsuccessful one, I'd say. It's a mistake to blithely gloss over all of Archie's faults and demonize Mike for his. They were HUMAN BEINGS who made mistakes and had triumphs, just like you and me. That was Lear's genius.
	__________________ Alex Reiger :[Trying to convince Louie not to antagonize Bobby] "It's not hard to make people feel bad about their lives. What's hard is making people feel good about their lives."

12-28-2013, 04:48 PM	#7
douglasjc Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 26, 2003 Posts: 318	I think Mike's finest moments came when he tried to help Edith deal with the murder of Beverly La Salle and trying to make Edith understand while Archie forged her name to get a loan to buy the bar. Where he angered me is how he treated Gloria in respect to their relationship including blaming her for getting pregnant. He came around to Gloria having a baby but he started off like a self centered jerk. There was an episode that he had a friend to dinner but wanted her to stay out of their chess game or have any part of the discussion. Then When they moved to California basically ignored her making her feel less then a person. I do not blame her for becoming friends with Bud Kriger which caused them to break up in Christmas 1978. In end I am not surprised they divorced because Mike and Gloria were just to different. Mike really did not include his wife in his life

12-31-2013, 11:35 AM	#8
TheCars1986 #VLSKMS Forum Fanatic Join Date: Nov 22, 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 8,606	That's what made Mike likeable, IMO. Without the hypocrisy, he would have came off as an arrogant know-it-all. Being a hypocrite made him human.

12-31-2013, 01:20 PM	#9
cleverfun3000 Member Senior Member Join Date: Sep 18, 2008 Location: Manhattan Posts: 1,685

02-09-2014, 11:53 AM	#15
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	Exactly. It was the clever exposure of each man's faults and virtues that made them more human, and embraceable. Archie's mellowing and Michael's closed -mindedness helped balance their respective reactionary and liberal leanings, resp. Lear was a genius.