Mafhuz Huq pleads guilty!!

[crystaldawn]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but in a plea agreement where prosecutors agreed to dismiss 6 other charges, Mafhuz Huq agreed to plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter of Todd Kelley. He won't be officially sentenced until April but its a 40 year maximum sentence.

http://www.journalgazette.net/articl...941/1002/LOCAL

[TheCars1986]

Great news, but "voluntary manslaughter" is a joke of a charge, IMO.

[dynoguy88]

Considering his age, a 40 year sentence is most likely the same as a life sentence, which is what he deserves. So I can live with that.

Good riddance.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

Considering his age, a 40 year sentence is most likely the same as a life sentence, which is what he deserves. So I can live with that.

Good riddance.

Hopefully he gets the max 40 year sentence, but he could also serve as little as 5 years and be out.

[flytrapp]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Hopefully he gets the max 40 year sentence, but he could also serve as little as 5 years and be out.

I was thinking the same thing. The defense might make some argument that he has been living a crime-free, productive-to-society life in whatever country he was living in (I think he was a school teacher?) and cry the blues about how he is sorry, and it was an accident or crime of passion, and he was young, and spent his whole life looking over his shoulder...and blah blah blah. They'd better not fall for that crap and give him a good, long sentence. He's been free all this time to live out his best years while the victim was murdered with his whole life still ahead of him.

[Kane]

Originally Posted by flytrapp

I was thinking the same thing. The defense might make some argument that he has been living a crime-free, productive-to-society life in whatever country he was living in (I think he was a school teacher?) and cry the blues about how he is sorry, and it was an accident or crime of passion, and he was young, and spent his whole life looking over his shoulder...and blah blah blah.

Needless to say, that it nothing short of sympathy for the devil.

Sympathy for the devil = sympathy wasted.

[TheUntouchables]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Great news, but "voluntary manslaughter" is a joke of a charge, IMO.

The crime fits the definition of voluntary manslaughter. That is, unless you don't think he was emotionally/mentally disturbed when he committed the crime.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

The crime fits the definition of voluntary manslaughter. That is, unless you don't think he was emotionally/mentally disturbed when he committed the crime.

No it's premeditated murder. He showed up and waited outside of Todd Kelly's house before entering it and stabbing him to death. He had plenty of time to turn around and go home, which he chose not to do. The difference between murder and manslaughter is provocation. There was none in this case, considering Huq was the one who showed up at Kelly's house to murder him.

[TheUntouchables]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

No it's premeditated murder. He showed up and waited outside of Todd Kelly's house before entering it and stabbing him to death. He had plenty of time to turn around and go home, which he chose not to do. The difference between murder and manslaughter is provocation. There was none in this case, considering Huq was the one who showed up at Kelly's house to murder him.

Voluntary manslaughter - also known as "heat of passion" murder - is intentional murder without any prior intent to kill, and committed under circumstances which would cause an otherwise reasonable person to become emotionally/mentally disturbed. Huq's crime fits the criteria, it's voluntary manslaughter. The difference between murder and manslaughter is not provocation. It's a variety of factors such as willfulness, premeditation, circumstances surrounding the crime, etc. A lawyer would have better luck of convincing a jury about the accused's state of mind instead of provocation.

Wikipedia (or rather, the source it cited) had a good example for differentiating between 2nd-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter: A bar fight that results in death would in most cases constitute second-degree murder. However, if that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter. The latter is what's referred to as a mitigating circumstance, not provocation. A jury isn't going to buy for a second that a man's wife cheating on him was provocation enough to justify the murder of her lover, however they would believe that it led to the husband becoming emotionally/mentally unstable.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

Voluntary manslaughter - also known as "heat of passion" murder - is intentional murder without any prior intent to kill, and committed under circumstances which would cause an otherwise reasonable person to become emotionally/mentally disturbed. Huq's crime fits the criteria, it's voluntary manslaughter.

No Huq's crime does not fit the criteria considering: he had threatened to murder anyone who dated his ex girlfriend prior to Todd's murder, Todd was attacked and murdered from behind when Huq broke into his house and murdered him. 3 weeks before Todd's murder, he was facing an intimidation charge because he threatened to kill both Christie and any new boyfriend that she had. Premeditation much?

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

The difference between murder and manslaughter is not provocation. It's a variety of factors such as willfulness, premeditation, circumstances surrounding the crime, etc. A lawyer would have better luck of convincing a jury about the accused's state of mind instead of provocation.

So at what point did Todd Kelly provoke Huq to murder him by simply living in his house and getting ready to go to bed? Todd was attacked from behind, so you can't use the excuse that there was some sort of altercation beforehand.

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

Wikipedia (or rather, the source it cited) had a good example for differentiating between 2nd-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter: A bar fight that results in death would in most cases constitute second-degree murder. However, if that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter. The latter is what's referred to as a mitigating circumstance, not provocation. A jury isn't going to buy for a second that a man's wife cheating on him was provocation enough to justify the murder of her lover, however they would believe that it led to the husband becoming emotionally/mentally unstable.

You're comparing something that is not even remotely close to this case. There was no infidelity involved consdering Christie had broken up with Huq and began to date Todd. And this wasn't some bar fight that got out of hand. Huq lingered around Todd Kelley's house in the wee hours of the morning, and then broke in and murdered him in cold blood.

ETA: Huq took a plea deal, which is why he was charged with manslaughter.
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/ne...233376481.html

[dynoguy88]

Yeah, I don't see how any part of this murder was committed in the heat of passion, as a spur of the moment attack that went horribly wrong.

If I recall correctly (forgive me, I haven't seen the segment in many years) Huq threatened Todd with his life, to his face, just weeks before the murder. And this was right in front of two of Todd's friends.

He had an incredibly long walk to Todd's house, waited in Todd's yard for another long period leaving dozens of cigarette butts on the ground, before finally stabbing him to death. That's an eternity with the intent to kill.

[TheUntouchables]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

No Huq's crime does not fit the criteria considering: he had threatened to murder anyone who dated his ex girlfriend prior to Todd's murder, Todd was attacked and murdered from behind when Huq broke into his house and murdered him. 3 weeks before Todd's murder, he was facing an intimidation charge because he threatened to kill both Christie and any new boyfriend that she had. Premeditation much?

Yes, his crime does fit the criteria. I don't see how you're arguing this considering I clearly stated the definition and the details of the incident are public knowledge. It's just a matter of putting 2 and 2 together.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

So at what point did Todd Kelly provoke Huq to murder him by simply living in his house and getting ready to go to bed? Todd was attacked from behind, so you can't use the excuse that there was some sort of altercation beforehand.

You were the one who brought up provocation, why are you asking me? You're completely ignoring the fact that premeditation is the not the only factor when categorizing murders. Again, there are also mitigating circumstances, willfulness, prior intent to kill, etc. Most of which support the voluntary manslaughter charge.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

You're comparing something that is not even remotely close to this case. There was no infidelity involved consdering Christie had broken up with Huq and began to date Todd. And this wasn't some bar fight that got out of hand. Huq lingered around Todd Kelley's house in the wee hours of the morning, and then broke in and murdered him in cold blood.

I was using it as an example to explain the difference between varying degrees of murder. I was not saying that particular example is the same as what happened. Strange how you came to that conclusion.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

ETA: Huq took a plea deal, which is why he was charged with manslaughter.
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/ne...233376481.html

Do you honestly think plea bargains are just given simply because the accused gives up information? There are requirements to be met in order for such a deal to be struck in the first place. The prosecutors gave him that deal because the events and circumstances were applicable to voluntary manslaughter, enough for it to be put on the table. Case closed.

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

Yeah, I don't see how any part of this murder was committed in the heat of passion, as a spur of the moment attack that went horribly wrong.

"...committed under circumstances which would cause an otherwise reasonable person to become emotionally/mentally disturbed."

If you don't think the circumstances led him to becoming emotionally/mentally disturbed, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. If a person is repeatedly threatening to kill others coupled with the kind of jealousy that Huq showed, it's safe to say that person isn't operating at 100%.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

Yes, his crime does fit the criteria. I don't see how you're arguing this considering I clearly stated the definition and the details of the incident are public knowledge. It's just a matter of putting 2 and 2 together.

Because you're wrong. He threatened to murder him in the weeks prior to his actual murder. It's called premeditation. He threatened to kill him and then carried out that plan three weeks later. He didn't just decide to do it in the spur of the moment. Have you actually seen the segment?

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

You were the one who brought up provocation, why are you asking me? You're completely ignoring the fact that premeditation is the not the only factor when categorizing murders. Again, there are also mitigating circumstances, willfulness, prior intent to kill, etc. Most of which support the voluntary manslaughter charge.

What exactly supports the voluntary manslaughter charge in this case? He waited outside of Todd Kelley's house until Christie left before entering, hiding in a bathroom, and then ambushing him and stabbing him. Several cigarette butts (the brand Huq smoked) were found outside of Kelley's house. He was waiting for Christie to leave. In other words, he knew what he was going to do beforehand. He did not all of a sudden flow into a fit of rage after catching Todd and Christie together. He patiently waited outside for her to leave before he murdered him. That is not voluntary manslaughter.

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

I was using it as an example to explain the difference between varying degrees of murder. I was not saying that particular example is the same as what happened. Strange how you came to that conclusion.

It's strange how you continue to say that this crime fits the voluntary manslaughter charge without supporting any sort of facts from the case that support this assertion.

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

The prosecutors gave him that deal because the events and circumstances were applicable to voluntary manslaughter, enough for it to be put on the table. Case closed.

No. The events and circumstances were applicable to 1st or 2nd degree murder, the prosecution knew that Huq was going to use his lame excuse that Todd Kelley grabbed the knife first and that they struggled before he stabbed him to death, so instead of going through the motions of a trial, offered the plea deal to him so he would simply plead guilty. I have no idea why they did this because the evidence against him was pretty solid. The only thing I can figure is how old the case is, perhaps they thought they wouldn't have been able to prove their case due to the passage of time.

Originally Posted by TheUntouchables

"...committed under circumstances which would cause an otherwise reasonable person to become emotionally/mentally disturbed."

If you don't think the circumstances led him to becoming emotionally/mentally disturbed, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. If a person is repeatedly threatening to kill others coupled with the kind of jealousy that Huq showed, it's safe to say that person isn't operating at 100%.

So if you threaten to kill someone, show up outside of their house and wait, murder them, then flee the country for 20 years, somehow that applies to voluntary manslaughter!? I'm confused. When you repeatedly threaten to kill someone and then go ahead and do it that is premeditated murder. From wikipedia: "Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension." Gee doesn't that sound an awful lot like what Huq did to Todd Kelley?

[MegtheEgg86]

Huq reportedly walked TEN MILES in the dark to Todd Kelley's house that night after figuring out Christie Mutzfeld wasn't at home, one month after explicitly telling Christie he'd kill her and the individual she was dating if she ever began a new relationship. When he got there, he waited. He waited a long time. And he stabbed Todd Kelley right in the back.

He threatened to do it. He possibly took extraordinary measures to get to Kelley's house. He waited long enough outside for Kelley to turn in. He broke into his home. He ambushed him from behind and killed him. He then fled the country for 22 years. Cars is right: voluntary manslaughter is a joke charge, and most importantly, it does not apply.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

Huq reportedly walked TEN MILES in the dark to Todd Kelley's house that night after figuring out Christie Mutzfeld wasn't at home, one month after explicitly telling Christie he'd kill her and the individual she was dating if she ever began a new relationship. When he got there, he waited. He waited a long time. And he stabbed Todd Kelley right in the back.

He threatened to do it. He possibly took extraordinary measures to get to Kelley's house. He waited long enough outside for Kelley to turn in. He broke into his home. He ambushed him from behind and killed him. He then fled the country for 22 years. Cars is right: voluntary manslaughter is a joke charge, and most importantly, it does not apply.

Wow I forgot the distance he walked. I also think there was a witness who saw him walking away from Kelley's residence.