Unsolved Mysteries - suicide cases

[lettucesolve1]

Hi,

I can not remember for certain, but I remember about 5 big UM segments that dealt with a case where the police are 100% certain the boy's death was suicide, yet the parents are sure that it was murder because blood spots were on different parts of the wall outside his bedroom or it was impossible for the man to shoot himself at the angle where the gun was left afterwards.

I actually believe a few cases were suicide and the parents are in denial. There are probably a few other cases where it was not suicide and planted/set up to look that way by the real killer. Because this has happened a lot too as I have seen this in Forensic files.

Do you agree with me that some cases are not murder cases or unsolved - and are simply suicides.

In one case there was a young man who lost his drivers license for a year. His parents said he did not kill himself. Yet, he had 3 girlfriends? That is not good and can lead to trouble and fights or accidental death. He was afraid of one of his girlfriends boyfriend. He also had road rage with another young man and pissed off that guy. Thus, maybe one of those guys killed him out of anger or rage? But, I tend to agree with the police when they said the suicide victim was stressed out after losing his license - hey at any age when u lose a license for 12 months it sucks big time and you lose your independence. Yet, when you are very young it seems to suck even more. And the policeman said he was also depressed about all the threats from the other guys. I think he killed himself.

[TracyLynnS]

I will be interested to see everyone's thoughts on this. From what I can gather, reading through the threads, most people here seem to think that many of those cases are actually suicides that that relatives are having a hard time accepting.

I was absolutely sure that Jeffrey Digman's death was a murder set up by his roomie. http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Jeffrey_Digman

He was supposed to be on a flight out of town, he had just bought a house with a roommate (which the roommate would likely inherit upon his death - motive), when the roomie got home that evening, he was suspicious of Digman's car still being there instead of at the airport, so instead of checking his own house, had a neighbor search and find the body. (A tactic sometimes used by murderers to make sure the body is discovered but they aren't the one to find it.)

Then, more info came out than was in the UM segment. He was drunk at the time of his death, which would be odd if he really intended to drive to the airport and take the flight, etc. So that got me wondering if I was wrong and this really was a suicide.

A few other cases... are they suicide or murder?

Danny Williams - http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Danny_Williams

Tommy Burkett - http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Thomas_Burkett

Danny Casolaro - http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Danny_Casolaro

Rae Ann Mossor - http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Rae_Ann_Mossor

Cindy James - http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Cindy_James

Mike O'Mara - http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Mike_O%27Mara

Tony Lombardi - http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Tony_Lombardi

Michael Carmichael & Billy Ray Hargrove - http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/w...y_Ray_Hargrove

[MegtheEgg86]

Thanks for posting all those cases, Tracy--good memory jog.

Jeffrey Digman--I'm with you on how I initially felt about it, too. But there's a lot to indicate a suicide. I'm not willing to go all in yet, but I suppose that's the way I lean now, too.

lettucesolve, you brought up Tony Lombardi. I believe that one to be a suicide as well.

For the others:

Danny Williams - not sure, lean toward murder, after originally thinking it WAS a suicide.

Tommy Burkett - suicide.

Danny Casolaro - suicide.

Rae Ann Mossor - accident.

Cindy James - I think this is probably the biggest toss-up of them all. No clue.

Mike O'Mara - murder.

Mike Carmichael and Billy Ray Hargrove - suicides.

[bell83]

I will need to review these, later. But one I can state, without reservation, that I absolutely believe was murder was the case of Cindy James. I have not been given enough evidence that it was all in her head. The snarky reporter really turned me off to this with his "a knot expert tied the knots in" whatever short time he said. "A knot expert." Was Cindy a knot expert? If she was not, I'd like to see the same knot tied, in the same fashion, by someone who is not. Another thing that leads me to my decision is that no needles, nor other way to ingest the morphine (was it morphine? I can't remember) were found anywhere near her, and in fact, were never located, if I remember correctly.

It was said that the calls/visits stopped when she was under surveillance. My question is was this surveillance done with her knowledge? If it's suspected that someone is doing this to themselves, why not do surveillance without the person's knowledge, and see what happens, then?

I just don't believe it was a suicide, at this time, and I never have. Could I be moved from this position? Sure. But so far, I've not seen enough evidence to show that to me.

[flytrapp]

Originally Posted by bell83

I will need to review these, later. But one I can state, without reservation, that I absolutely believe was murder was the case of Cindy James. I have not been given enough evidence that it was all in her head. The snarky reporter really turned me off to this with his "a knot expert tied the knots in" whatever short time he said. "A knot expert." Was Cindy a knot expert? If she was not, I'd like to see the same knot tied, in the same fashion, by someone who is not. Another thing that leads me to my decision is that no needles, nor other way to ingest the morphine (was it morphine? I can't remember) were found anywhere near her, and in fact, were never located, if I remember correctly.

It was said that the calls/visits stopped when she was under surveillance. My question is was this surveillance done with her knowledge? If it's suspected that someone is doing this to themselves, why not do surveillance without the person's knowledge, and see what happens, then?

I just don't believe it was a suicide, at this time, and I never have. Could I be moved from this position? Sure. But so far, I've not seen enough evidence to show that to me.

I agree with you. I don't think it was suicide, it was murder, imo. Now, when people talk about the "state" of Cindy's mind....well, I think if someone was harassing me the way she was being harassed, I think it's probably normal to end up having mental health issues. So, while some of her claims may not have been accurate, I'd say it's because she grew to be extremely paranoid. I do think someone was stalking her and I do think she was murdered.

There is another case, too....I think the guy's name was Keith Warren? He was a young guy, apparently hung himself, and the circumstances surrounding it all just do not add up.

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by flytrapp

There is another case, too....I think the guy's name was Keith Warren? He was a young guy, apparently hung himself, and the circumstances surrounding it all just do not add up.

Here's the link in case you haven't already had the chance to look at this thread. I definitely do not think it was a suicide, but I'm not sure what happened: murder? accidental death covered up to keep cops from investigating criminals?

IMO, there's no way he hung himself. His feet were on the ground with his knees bent, and his arms slightly forward in an unnatural position (which indicated that hanging was not the position in which he died).

The police lied and lied and lied to the family, ignored them, pretended they didn't know Keith's identity when they had that info all along, had Keith's body embalmed without informing the family so any future autopsy would be compromised, said that Keith's clothes were too soiled to be returned to the family due to extensive decomposition of the body, but he was found within hours of death. His body was in good condition and he was still very recognizable. When they finally returned clothes to the family, they weren't Keith's, AND Keith was not wearing his own clothes in crime scene photos.

Much more info in the link below.


http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...t=keith+warren

[MegtheEgg86]

Yeah, Keith Warren was an absolute murder and an absolute cover-up. No question on either count.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Keith Warren was definitely a murder, there's no way for that to be a suicide.

Cindy James I do think it was a murder, but I really don't think there's any way to definitively prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt either way.

I lean toward murder on cases like Norman Ladner, Tommy Burkett, Mike O' Mara and Henry/Ives. Most others I think were suicides or accidents or cases like Mike Carmichael where I'm just not sure.

[isotope]

My general view is that the suicides on UM are almost always usually just that.

Suicide is often incredibly difficult for loved ones to accept (its been descibed as "deeper than death", bringing with it not just feelings of grief but also rage, guilt, self-reproach etc.) and they will often grasp at any straw to convince themselves foul play was involved. This just often isn't the case though. Add to that the fact that any allegation of "cover up" of a suicide usually involves a suggestion of some incredibly complex conspiracy involving a cast of dozens from a variety of state agencies, and I'm usually just not convinced.

There are two exceptions though:

1. Cindy James - enough has been written on this infamous case, so there's no need for me to add much. IMO, I'm certain at least some (perhaps most) of the "attacks" on Cindy were staged, but I'm not convinced all of them were. The position she was found in at the time of here death is deeply suspicious, and I'm certain the cops had made their mind up that her death was not murder prior to them commencing any sort of (half- a**ed) investigation.

2. The Intelligence Agent who allegedly electroctuted himself in a hotel room - this is deeply suspicious (such a bizarre way to go) and I can completely see the CIA deciding to sweep the whole matter under the carpet and not wanting to create an international incident.

[yourhomiebrian]

I think most of the suicide/murder cases are suicide. Although knowing how lazy and incompetent some of the cops are I would not be surprised if some of them are murder and they messed up the investigation.

[TheCars1986]

The most bizarre cases are the ones that I think could go either way. Especially Aileen Conway and Rae Ann Mossor.

[Jon]

If the authorities say they hung themselves in their jail cell, that's an obvious murder cover-up (Andre Jones and Mario Amado)

[justins5256]

I think when I was younger I believed that the majority were murders or foul play. Now, I think most of them were suicides that the families could not accept and UM distorted or embellished certain facts while simultaneously downplaying others to make them seem more mysterious than they actually were.

Edited to add: A while ago someone created a list of all the Final Appeals cases and various posters chimed in saying "guilty" or "innocent" and this led to some discussion. It would be interested if such a list existed for the "unexplained deaths."

I'll start with the specials...

Don Kemp - accident
Wanda Jean Mays - accident
Aeileen Conway - accident
Kurt McFall - accident

Season 1

Don Henry and Kevin Ives - murder
Kurt Sova - accident
Clarence and Geneva Roberts - convoluted, but he killed a vagrant in the first fire, then shot his wife and committed suicide in the second fire

Season 2

Kay Hall - murdered by her husband, Bob Hall.
Sonny Liston - accident
Ralph Sigler - don't know, but lean toward suicide
Rae Ann Mossor - suicide
Chuck Morgan - no clue

I'm tired. Anyone else want to continue?

[bell83]

Originally Posted by justins5256

Rae Ann Mossor - suicide

While I have gained a lot of perspective on cases since my younger days, and do readily agree that a lot of the "unexplained deaths" are likely suicides that the family refuses to believe are suicides, there is absolutely no way I can agree with this one being a suicide.

[soilentgreen]

Originally Posted by bell83

While I have gained a lot of perspective on cases since my younger days, and do readily agree that a lot of the "unexplained deaths" are likely suicides that the family refuses to believe are suicides, there is absolutely no way I can agree with this one being a suicide.

Agreed; there's evidence that Rae Ann was not holding the weapon when it discharged.

Mario Amado's injuries indicate homicide, I'm still uncertain whether Andre Jones was murdered or was a suicide, but the jail was negligent and responsible for his death. Bobby Fuller's death is bizarre, possibly he overdosed or was accidentally killed and there had been plans of burning up the vehicle and the body.