The Flo-Alice controversery - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

douglasjc · 11-11-2013, 06:43 PM

In some respects I can see Linda Lavin's point of view in that the show's title was Alice. Alice was supposed to be the center of the show but sometimes things do not work out the why we expect. Flo became a breakout character something no one expected and more popular. So I suspect Lavin probably did pressure the producers to decide between them. I feel bad for Polly Holiday because she was stuck between a rock and hard place. She was extremely popular which caused anger on part of Lavin. However, if some reports about the backstage fury on the part of Lavin are true then it's Lavin's problems.

Chrisothebigc · 11-12-2013, 01:03 AM

I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel:

I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.

Wawwie · 11-12-2013, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisothebigc

I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel:

I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.

I agree completely, and I think the show should have always been called "Mel's Diner" from the very beginning.

TVFactFan · 11-12-2013, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisothebigc

I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel:

I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.

Probably because she was overshadowed by Mel and Flo and sometimes Vera

Wawwie · 11-12-2013, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

Probably because she was overshadowed by Mel and Flo and sometimes Vera

Mel always seemed like the star of the show to me. I still wonder why the show wasn't called Mel's Diner from the beginning.

TVFactFan · 11-12-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wawwie

Mel always seemed like the star of the show to me. I still wonder why the show wasn't called Mel's Diner from the beginning.

Yup everything revolved around him

douglasjc · 11-13-2013, 01:15 AM

Personally Lavin's personality in the Character could be a turn off at times which is why she could not compete with FLO. She apparently bullied Holiday off the show and had all references of her removed such as the credits. Yet, Lavin ran into a brick wall with Vic Tayback because I am sure he did not put with her behavior. I suspect he may have even put her in her place a couple of times.

wayman · 11-13-2013, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglasjc

I suspect he may have even put her in her place a couple of times.

Stow It, Linda!

Chrisothebigc · 11-13-2013, 05:13 PM

You know...it sucks. I was upset for a good long while when I learned the truth. There is something in us that wants to believe that everyone enjoyed each other and got along. Just like folks did on the MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW...but hey, even Ed and Ted had a big falling out over politics for awhile! It is what it is. I'm sure Polly was very hurt. But the lady has class. She could have spoken out loudly, but she never did. She just moved on. We all have to make our peace with such things or it spoils appreciating what good there is. Linda may have changed a lot. Let's hope so, for her sake.

tlc38tlc38 · 11-13-2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisothebigc

I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel:

I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. I always thought the show should've been called "Mel's Diner" anyway.

McGillicuddy · 11-14-2013, 05:07 PM

I've been watching Alice Seasons 1-4, and I've never seen any tension between the actresses. They both were always professional.

TVFactFan · 11-14-2013, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGillicuddy

I've been watching Alice Seasons 1-4, and I've never seen any tension between the actresses. They both were always professional.

I think it was in the season during Flo's departure

jehobden · 11-14-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wawwie

Mel always seemed like the star of the show to me. I still wonder why the show wasn't called Mel's Diner from the beginning.

I'm surprised that there were only 4 total employees for the whole diner. I'd think there would be more waitresses to work other shifts, as well as cooks & busboys/dishwashers, and maybe cashiers too. Mel apparently had to do all the cooking & cleaning, aside from whatever cleaning his waitresses did.

Chrisothebigc · 11-14-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jehobden

I'm surprised that there were only 4 total employees for the whole diner. I'd think there would be more waitresses to work other shifts, as well as cooks & busboys/dishwashers, and maybe cashiers too. Mel apparently had to do all the cooking & cleaning, aside from whatever cleaning his waitresses did.

Restaurants, like Banks and other businesses, often have janitorial crews to come in and do much of the cleaning. Still, look how tiny the diner is! Doesn't take too much effort to keep a place that small clean. I speak from experience. I have worked in MUCH bigger houses where you bus your own tables, cash out your own customers and do quite a bit of opening, running and closing side-work. Annnnd, well...it IS a tv show.

Chrisothebigc · 11-14-2013, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGillicuddy

I've been watching Alice Seasons 1-4, and I've never seen any tension between the actresses. They both were always professional.

Check Lavin's performance in the final episode with Flo. You can see an element of gloating as she heads back into the diner. There is some real subliminal, just below the surface stuff visible.

I think Solomon is correct in that the tension is mostly visible in the fourth season, and it's all from Lavin. She's a fantastic actor, but she couldn't quite conceal it. With Polly, you'd never know. She kept mum about the whole thing. The ONLY thing I have ever seen that is attributed to her that could be construed as acknowledging the situation, was a statement years later. She was quoted as saying (something like):Why revisit anything unpleasant? It was all in the past. Perhaps the subtle, and I would think sincere, "Good luck" she bid Dianne Ladd.

Besides perhaps bit players, it makes sense that Vic was the only ALICE player to visit Flo's Yellow Rose. Tayback was his own man. I'm certain Beth would not have wanted to deal with the fallout. I'm certain a lot of people stuck up for Polly, and the right-minded actors were grateful to be on a hit show. To be a WORKING actor is the goal! To be a well-paid and steadily employed working actor, a rarity.

The trouble started long before then, and I believe, really started to come out in the second season.

11-11-2013, 06:43 PM	#1
douglasjc Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 26, 2003 Posts: 318	The Flo-Alice controversery In some respects I can see Linda Lavin's point of view in that the show's title was Alice. Alice was supposed to be the center of the show but sometimes things do not work out the why we expect. Flo became a breakout character something no one expected and more popular. So I suspect Lavin probably did pressure the producers to decide between them. I feel bad for Polly Holiday because she was stuck between a rock and hard place. She was extremely popular which caused anger on part of Lavin. However, if some reports about the backstage fury on the part of Lavin are true then it's Lavin's problems.

11-13-2013, 01:15 AM	#7
douglasjc Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 26, 2003 Posts: 318	Alice could have survived Lavin Departure Personally Lavin's personality in the Character could be a turn off at times which is why she could not compete with FLO. She apparently bullied Holiday off the show and had all references of her removed such as the credits. Yet, Lavin ran into a brick wall with Vic Tayback because I am sure he did not put with her behavior. I suspect he may have even put her in her place a couple of times.

11-12-2013, 01:03 AM	#2
Chrisothebigc Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 22, 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 87	I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel: I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.

11-13-2013, 05:13 PM	#9
Chrisothebigc Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 22, 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 87	You know...it sucks. I was upset for a good long while when I learned the truth. There is something in us that wants to believe that everyone enjoyed each other and got along. Just like folks did on the MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW...but hey, even Ed and Ted had a big falling out over politics for awhile! It is what it is. I'm sure Polly was very hurt. But the lady has class. She could have spoken out loudly, but she never did. She just moved on. We all have to make our peace with such things or it spoils appreciating what good there is. Linda may have changed a lot. Let's hope so, for her sake.

11-14-2013, 05:07 PM	#11
McGillicuddy Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Sep 28, 2002 Posts: 5,179	I've been watching Alice Seasons 1-4, and I've never seen any tension between the actresses. They both were always professional.