What are your thoughts on the Riemer and Robertson murder?

[SeekDaGreat]

Anybody draw up a conclusion, do you think it was related to the double murder 4-months earliest? Motive? Thoughts...

[crystaldawn]

Originally Posted by SeekDaGreat

Anybody draw up a conclusion, do you think it was related to the double murder 4-months earliest? Motive? Thoughts...

I still tend to think that Mike Reimer killed Diana Robertson. He had been abusive to her in the past and a serial killer wouldn't have bothered to spare the life of their small child. I think Mike dropped her off at that store knowing she would be found soon and probably be reunited with family members. Plus the whole envelope in the truck in plain view that said "I love you Diana" again doesn't go along with the theory of a crazed gunman in the woods. It seems like something Mike may have written after the murder, possible even feeling guilty, to proclaim his "love" for her one last time. I do think its most likely that Mike went off in the woods and killed himself. I know some reports say his remains were partially buried (I knew saw where they clarified what that meant) but that could have been since he was there for so long. His remains decomposed and sunk down into the ground. I'm not positive about the murder of the other two people, but I think its possible Mike may have murdered them too. He did have traps in the area and maybe he thought they were stealing the animals or didn't like them being in his area and snapped. He did have a history of violence. Just my two cents....

[SeekDaGreat]

Originally Posted by crystaldawn

I still tend to think that Mike Reimer killed Diana Robertson. He had been abusive to her in the past and a serial killer wouldn't have bothered to spare the life of their small child. I think Mike dropped her off at that store knowing she would be found soon and probably be reunited with family members. Plus the whole envelope in the truck in plain view that said "I love you Diana" again doesn't go along with the theory of a crazed gunman in the woods. It seems like something Mike may have written after the murder, possible even feeling guilty, to proclaim his "love" for her one last time. I do think its most likely that Mike went off in the woods and killed himself. I know some reports say his remains were partially buried (I knew saw where they clarified what that meant) but that could have been since he was there for so long. His remains decomposed and sunk down into the ground. I'm not positive about the murder of the other two people, but I think its possible Mike may have murdered them too. He did have traps in the area and maybe he thought they were stealing the animals or didn't like them being in his area and snapped. He did have a history of violence. Just my two cents....

Never thought of it from that aspect. Very logical, good stuff.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'm fairly certain he was killed by the same person who killed Diana. That there was no weapon found near him makes me think that it was unlikely to be suicide.

[TheCars1986]

I think Riemer is a 4th victim. Considering:

-His skull was found with no apparent gunshot wound. This makes the murder suicide theory unlikely.
-Police have since stated that they are looking at the case now with Riemer as a victim, and are in search of a serial killer.
-Riemer may have been abusive to Diana, but the cops still believe all four deaths are related. There is no connection between Riemer and Ruth Cooper or Stephen Harkins. It makes no sense for him to have murdered a couple he knew nothing about.
-Riemer going into a murderous rage killing Diana while they and their daughter are out looking for Christmas trees seems highly unlikely.

There's much much more posted in a different thread about this case, which I think supports the theory that there is a murderer who got away with 4 murders. If you use the search forum tool and type in Mike Riemer, you'll find a thread titled "Mike Riemer: Still Think He's Guilty".

On a side note, I saw a video of a newscast that had family members and more information on Ruth Cooper and Stephen Harkins. They had attended a wedding together the last day they were seen alive. Shortly after they left the wedding, an unknown man had shown up looking for Harkins in an apparent attempt to settle some dispute over damages to Harkins motorcycle. No one at the wedding knew the guy and he still hasn't been located. I think that's your killer.

[McBevis]

Based on many things that were stated about Mike Riemer during the segment (notably his threatening to kill her, according to Diana's mother) as well as the situation with the "I Love You Diana" card, I still lean towards him being her killer. I have no reason to believe that he's a serial killer, and he probably had nothing at all to do with the killings of Stephen Harkins and Ruth Cooper, but I do strongly believe that he killed Diana. As far as him eventually being found dead himself, I'm not really sure what to make of that, since there's no way of knowing how long he had been dead at the time he was found, but even if he did end up a murder victim himself, it doesn't absolve him of being a murderer also. I also think it makes sense that if he were going to go into hiding (presumably to live in the woods), he would understandably want to unload his kid first. One thing, however, that I think casts some extreme questionability upon his guilt or innocence (whichever it may be) is why, if he knew that he was planning to leave Crystal behind, didn't he just drop her straight off at Diana's mother's and make up some excuse about having to be gone in a hurry, instead of leaving her alone in a public place where she might wander off and/or get abducted. To me, that seems like a really weird thing to do.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by McBevis

One thing, however, that I think casts some extreme questionability upon his guilt or innocence (whichever it may be) is why, if he knew that he was planning to leave Crystal behind, didn't he just drop her straight off at Diana's mother's and make up some excuse about having to be gone in a hurry, instead of leaving her alone in a public place where she might wander off and/or get abducted. To me, that seems like a really weird thing to do.

I agree, if Mike cared about his daughter enough to drop her off at a public place before returning to the murder scene to kill himself, I think he would have taken more precautions to make sure she was safe. At the very least, he could have gone to a payphone and called Diana's mother to let her know to pick up Crystal at the department store, especially since it wound up being three whole days before Crystal's grandmother saw her photo on a news broadcast and was able to reunite with her.

One other thing that just occurred to me is that most two-year old children would probably freak out and throw a crying fit if one of their parents just abandoned them somewhere and drove away. As far as I know, no one ever witnessed Crystal acting that way in the parking lot and she looked more stunned than anything. That's why I'm inclined to believe that she was dropped off there by a stranger. I'm one of the people who doesn't find it too far-fetched that a serial killer might draw the line at harming a small child and try to help her without drawing any attention to himself.

I'm also inclined to think that the "I Love You Diana" note has nothing to do with the case. It may have been written to her at another time and just happened to be lying around in the car, but after the murder occurred, it suddenly looked very ominous.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by RobinW

I agree, if Mike cared about his daughter enough to drop her off at a public place before returning to the murder scene to kill himself, I think he would have taken more precautions to make sure she was safe. At the very least, he could have gone to a payphone and called Diana's mother to let her know to pick up Crystal at the department store, especially since it wound up being three whole days before Crystal's grandmother saw her photo on a news broadcast and was able to reunite with her.

I've been thinking the same thing. Abandoning your child in a public place does not show "great care" like others have argued in previous threads. I think it's a pretty callous thing to do. Which, IMO, supports the theory that she was dropped off by an unknown third party.

Originally Posted by RobinW

One other thing that just occurred to me is that most two-year old children would probably freak out and throw a crying fit if one of their parents just abandoned them somewhere and drove away. As far as I know, no one ever witnessed Crystal acting that way in the parking lot and she looked more stunned than anything. That's why I'm inclined to believe that she was dropped off there by a stranger. I'm one of the people who doesn't find it too far-fetched that a serial killer might draw the line at harming a small child and try to help her without drawing any attention to himself.

In the segment the workers at the store where Crystal was found described her as "dazed" and IIRC, one of them said they were amazed at how quiet and docile she was at such a young age. Witnessing her mother's murder could have put her in such a dazed state. But if her father just left her in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of strangers, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have at least began to cry. And I believe the segment says it took approximately 2 hours before anyone noticed Crystal was still lingering outside without an adult.

Originally Posted by RobinW

I'm also inclined to think that the "I Love You Diana" note has nothing to do with the case. It may have been written to her at another time and just happened to be lying around in the car, but after the murder occurred, it suddenly looked very ominous.

100% agree. The note is a red herring. It could have been something Mike had written to Diana as an apology for the way he was treating her and that he gave it to her that day when they went checking for Xmas trees. IMO, the cops latched on to the note because they didn't find Riemer's body. The logical thing to think would be he wrote it after murdering her, but after his body was found I don't think it means anything at all.

ETA: This article (http://ididitforjodie.com/2012/03/29...fic-northwest/) gives a good overview of both cases (and some more info on the Cooper and Harkins homicides). It's interesting that the end of the article says both crime scenes were retested and "foreign DNA" was found. Doesn't this exclude Riemer as the murderer completely?

http://crimewiseusa.com/southwest-wa...al-killer.html

Here's another article that goes into detail about how they believe the tube sock murders were all committed by a serial killer and not Mike Riemer. Some of the similarities between the two couples' deaths (besides the sock ligature) are pretty shocking.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

http://crimewiseusa.com/southwest-wa...al-killer.html

Here's another article that goes into detail about how they believe the tube sock murders were all committed by a serial killer and not Mike Riemer. Some of the similarities between the two couples' deaths (besides the sock ligature) are pretty shocking.

Wow, that's quite an interesting article! And even though it's just a coincidence, another eerie similarity is that both couples happened to have a 15-year age difference and in both cases, the older member of the couple was found in a different location long after the first victim was discovered.

IMHO, The "Mike Riemer is a serial killer" theory might have made more sense when he was missing, but not after his remains were discovered. I just feel that any budding serial killer who is brazen enough to leave a calling card on their victims is going to continue killing more people rather than stopping to commit suicide in a remote area where the body may never be found.

[McBevis]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I've been thinking the same thing. Abandoning your child in a public place does not show "great care" like others have argued in previous threads. I think it's a pretty callous thing to do. Which, IMO, supports the theory that she was dropped off by an unknown third party.



In the segment the workers at the store where Crystal was found described her as "dazed" and IIRC, one of them said they were amazed at how quiet and docile she was at such a young age. Witnessing her mother's murder could have put her in such a dazed state. But if her father just left her in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of strangers, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have at least began to cry. And I believe the segment says it took approximately 2 hours before anyone noticed Crystal was still lingering outside without an adult.



100% agree. The note is a red herring. It could have been something Mike had written to Diana as an apology for the way he was treating her and that he gave it to her that day when they went checking for Xmas trees. IMO, the cops latched on to the note because they didn't find Riemer's body. The logical thing to think would be he wrote it after murdering her, but after his body was found I don't think it means anything at all.

ETA: This article (http://ididitforjodie.com/2012/03/29...fic-northwest/) gives a good overview of both cases (and some more info on the Cooper and Harkins homicides). It's interesting that the end of the article says both crime scenes were retested and "foreign DNA" was found. Doesn't this exclude Riemer as the murderer completely?

http://crimewiseusa.com/southwest-wa...al-killer.html

Here's another article that goes into detail about how they believe the tube sock murders were all committed by a serial killer and not Mike Riemer. Some of the similarities between the two couples' deaths (besides the sock ligature) are pretty shocking.

I didn't know anything about recent crime scene re-testing and the finding of foreign DNA until you mentioned it just now, so I guess that could totally take this in another direction, so maybe he's not the killer after all, but from a purely circumstantial standpoint and with no prior knowledge of what you've just brought up, he always seemed like a pretty likely suspect to me.

[WishfulDreamer]

I now think Riemer was a victim, but I can definitely see why Diana's mother and sister thought otherwise for years if he really did threaten and beat her. It's a real bummer that no one witnessed who left Crystal at the shopping center. We could at the very least have a composite or vehicle description. I'm not feeling positive that this person had to be the same person who killed Harkins and Cooper.

Even when I thought Riemer could be guilty, I never really paid much attention to the note. I'm sure that Riemer wrote it, but I don't think it has anything to do with the crime. Didn't they just reconcile right before the horrible crime took place? I always thought he wrote that letter to her as an apology and then it was in the car for her to see when they went on their outing.

Mike was a big guy, looked pretty strong. I think he was probably shot by the killer (maybe while checking his traps and that's why he was found so far away). Wasn't there blood found in the truck? Maybe Diana got out to find him and was attacked, attempted to make it back to the truck to escape (leaving her blood all over the front and the note) and the killer pulled her out and killed her where she was found. This same person decided to take Crystal and drop her off at the store, which I agree with TheCars is callous in that it's abandoning her, but better than leaving her to freeze in the woods all by herself. I guess even killers have limits and he knew that the little girl was too young to really recognize him.

[TheCars1986]

And I'd just like to clear up some confusion about the condition of Riemer's skull. Some articles say it was fully intact, while others said there was a large hole in the side. There was a witness who was interviewed by a local news station who was there when the skull was found who said there was a large hole on the side of Riemer's skull and that it looked like "somebody hit him real hard with something". I'm assuming (I really don't know much about guns) that if Riemer did in fact commit the murders and them kill himself, his skull would have had an exit wound and an entrance wound. Because there was only one fairly large hole and the absence of a firearm, that's got to be why police now think he was a victim.

[ctgrumpybear]

one idea I see get toss out there that all four of them would killed by Joseph Michael Burgess.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by ctgrumpybear

one idea I see get toss out there that all four of them would killed by Joseph Michael Burgess.

I've read that Burgess was confirmed to have been elsewhere during the times that all four murders were committed. I still believe the guy looking for Stephen Harkins at the wedding reception is a prime suspect.

[unsolved1981]

I feel pretty strongly about this case. Riemer has been defamed for the last 25 years and I think it is amusing that despite all of this some people cannot think anything else other than he killed her, when it is highly doubtful the police themselves still believe that at all. I don't buy he was the killer and didn't at the time. The murder scene does not say 'jealous rage' but rather they were stumbled upon and killed. Mike was killed along with her and never left the woods. He kills her, returns to his daughter to a random business with no gaurantee that she will be identified, drives back to the woods and kills himself, yet his truck/gear appear like they never left? The idea that he did this requires too much suspension of disbelief.

I agree with others - the note is a red herring. The note may have been waiting for her at another time, maybe he wrote it while she was asleep and layed it on her to read when she woke up. She reads it, and sets it on the dashboard.

The 'I am going to kill you' is pretty typical domestic violence stuff, probably blown out of porportion by the reactments and the mother of Diane, wanting to make him out to be as bad as possible.

Something else the 'Mike is guilty' party is ignoring is the distinctive knots tied around both female victim's necks. It was clearly the same knot to the police, but they didn't describe it.