Our Copyright System on Movies and TV programs is broken - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

DroopyVids · 07-04-2013, 11:23 AM

This piece is in the works and validity is being checked as it is written and will be rechecked in the end. Later on, the TV shows will be addressed and it won't be too flattering. If you have any input to this article, let me know. If I use any or part of your suggestion, credit will be given. Sorry, this is building up to present to congress and the Whitehouse so no money will be involved.

This is a proposal to change the copyright laws for TV programs and Movies.

Somewhere along the way, the good programming for TV and Movies have been lost. With the current copyright laws that covers Corporation Copyrights on TV and Movies, the incentive to continue to produce good quality programming has been misplaced. The Copyrights were originally designed to garner creativity. For the Authors, the intent was to be able to make enough of a living in order so that they might be able to afford to continue to create.

The Berne Agreement dealt with individual copyrights. It was written prior to the forming of the modern day Corporation. There is nothing wrong with a private copyright holder to have a limit on their copyright of the author’s life plus 50 years. Private copyrights should be protected as long as the copyrights are kept current. But they should not go on for the authors life plus 95 years like the US Copyright is written today. The Berne Agreement or convention states that a country may shorten the time limit of the copyright. It has no provisions in it for lengthening the limit as the US has done.

In my opinion, the last copyright law that existed was the Copyright Act of 1909 where it allowed the first copyright to be for 28 years from the public or release date and it allowed another 28 years renewal on qualified copyrights. That’s a total of 48 years. Rounding that up, 50 years is a good time for copyrights in my mind.

A very good case in point is in courts today. Sometime around 1898, two sisters used an old traditional music and put to new words. It was never copyrighted. By law, Happy Birthday went into public domain in 1921 since it wasn’t renewed. After numerous “Sales and Corporate Mergers” Time/Warner ended up claiming the copyright. In order to use the song once, you are required to pay Warner Music $1500 and enter into a copyright agreement with Warner Music. If the individual copyright were to be kept current the words to that song would have gone public domain in 1921 in compliance with the copyright laws of that time. Instead, it goes on and on since it was copyrighted for in 1935 who claimed two others authored it. It’s now owned by Warner Music Company and the end of the copyright will not end until 2055. If this sounds immoral it’s because it is. But it’s Corporate so morality doesn’t come into play. How has this helped to create or perpetuate creativity?

Another deal with the recovery of Copyrighted materials long after it has defaulted to Public Domain. The Corporations normally ignore these works unless it becomes popular. The worst of the cases is the 1946 “It’s a Wonderful Life” release. Republic Pictures didn’t renew the copyright and it went into Public Domain Status in 1974. But since it was a box off failure, they never bothered. It was based on a short story by Phillip Van Doren Stern under the title of “The Greatest Gift” in 1939. The story was refused by the Major Networks and Studios until 1945 when it was used as the basis for the movie. The Studio purchased the story but allowed the movie to go into public domain status. The author died in 1982 and his Executor became in charge of his assets. It was recovered under “Previous Works” in 1998 due to the passage of the “Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998”. Since it was being broadcast over many networks and released in DVD format, the Executor recovered it and now controls the movie from the Previous Works for the original Short Story. The Lawyers representing the Executor made millions for themselves suing many organizations including schools. Since the Executor converted all the original authors assets into a corporation, the copyright, now, won’t run out until 2059. How has this helped to create or perpetuate creativity?

bencasey · 07-13-2013, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DroopyVids

In my opinion, the last copyright law that existed was the Copyright Act of 1909 where it allowed the first copyright to be for 28 years from the public or release date and it allowed another 28 years renewal on qualified copyrights. That’s a total of 48 years. Rounding that up, 50 years is a good time for the movie.

Obviously math is not the strong suit here.

DroopyVids · 07-13-2013, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bencasey

Obviously math is not the strong suit here.

Is that it? That is your whole opinion? Snide comment on a simple typo? You can do better than that.

bencasey · 07-14-2013, 12:14 AM

My opinion is that the way our current system works, might makes right and Disney basically bought off enough politicians to ensure that the laws were changed so they could protect Mickey Mouse from falling into P.D. When they put millions of dollars into the right pockets, it doesn't matter what is in the best interest of the public. Just look at everything else, like the health care system for instance. Public good vs multi-billion dollar insurance companies. Guess who always wins that one?

DroopyVids · 07-14-2013, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bencasey

My opinion is that the way our current system works, might makes right and Disney basically bought off enough politicians to ensure that the laws were changed so they could protect Mickey Mouse from falling into P.D. When they put millions of dollars into the right pockets, it doesn't matter what is in the best interest of the public. Just look at everything else, like the health care system for instance. Public good vs multi-billion dollar insurance companies. Guess who always wins that one?

You have a pretty good handle on that. Now, how are we going to fix it? It can be done. Remember SOPA? How that was done?

Now for the bad news. The Anti-SOPA campaign was funded by Google/Youtube and a few other really big hitters. Don't look for them to back getting our Movie and TV Copyright Laws fixed. They make billions just the way things are. SOPA would have, essentially, shut down Youtube and the others cold. So they funded and promoted the drive against it. The
Anti-SOPA campaign threatened the power base in congress. That is the only power we have. But it isn't easy and the Anti_SOPA campaign was anything but a grass roots effort. All the while, private people thought they were doing it all. A Billion Dollar Company going against other Billion Dollar Companies.

The concept of the Anti-SOPA campaign was a good one and can be used. But it takes hundreds of foot soldiers to spread the word and a decent law ready for presentation. One that uses common sense. Believe it or not, Mexico has such a movie and tv copyright law in affect that fits that bill. 50 years from release of a Movie and 25 years from the first broadcast of a
TV program.

The rewrite and simplification for the presentation is pretty simple and straight forward. I am sure that there are a few lawyers that would donate their time to hammer it out so that the Supreme Court would not bounce it. It's the getting people to work as hard for this idea as they did for the Anti-SOPA campaign. Are you willing to spread the word?

DroopyVids

mets82 · 07-15-2013, 06:24 PM

I have to agree with you DroopyVids. I think the copyright laws are somewhat extreme. I mean copyrighting "Happy Birthday"? Really?

Thank God for youtube so we could watch old tv shows, and old football games etc. Why should the consumer, I'm talking about Joe Palooka, have to suffer not seeing any of these shows or games? The networks don't show them, nobody put them out on DVD and when they do, they edit the hell out of them. They dub over music or they don't have the rights to the music. Even when the shows are aired on tv, like on TV Land or Hallmark Channel, there edited down, end credits crunch, there pop-up ads all over the place, they take commercials at the wrong time etc.

Just leave well enough alone. I mean I think we have bigger problems (heath care, economy, gas prices, cancer) than worry about if somebody is watching an old tv show or old football game. Thats just me and my opinion.

DroopyVids · 07-15-2013, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mets82

I have to agree with you DroopyVids. I think the copyright laws are somewhat extreme. I mean copyrighting "Happy Birthday"? Really?

Thank God for youtube so we could watch old tv shows, and old football games etc. Why should the consumer, I'm talking about Joe Palooka, have to suffer not seeing any of these shows or games? The networks don't show them, nobody put them out on DVD and when they do, they edit the hell out of them. They dub over music or they don't have the rights to the music. Even when the shows are aired on tv, like on TV Land or Hallmark Channel, there edited down, end credits crunch, there pop-up ads all over the place, they take commercials at the wrong time etc.

Just leave well enough alone. I mean I think we have bigger problems (heath care, economy, gas prices, cancer) than worry about if somebody is watching an old tv show or old football game. Thats just me and my opinion.

Actually, we have the most draconian copyright laws on the planet of the earth. And Youtube was one second from being shut down over SOPA. My site was one second from being curtailed heavily. The Congress Critters keep something in the background similar to SOPA at all times just waiting for the right time to bring it out again.

As for edited down, are you aware of just how much has been completely lost? I am. When something is PD and has 200 episodes, we might find a handful left in existance. And it gets worse every day. And I am not talking about edited ones. I am talking about the whole enchilada just gone.

Now for a bit of trivia. Are you aware where the Networks and Movie People store their "Copyrighted" material? The Library of Congress. Yes, the Taxpayers Library of Congress. There are movies and TV programs that have disappeared into that abyss to never be heard of or seen again. And it's stored on YOUR dime as well as mine. What's worse, more celluloid is going bad every day in there no matter how well the Library of Congress tries. It's not allowed to be copied to a newer medium because that is against the law.

Well has nothing to do with anything in this mess. IF it was well, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I know we have problems with things like War, Economy, etc. but we need to fix what we can fix. Actually, the problems are pretty well caused by the same source, our Congress Critters. We need to fix the system. And one of the first steps is to find something we can win at. The Copyright is the easiest if we are willing to find compromise to get it fixed. And then threaten the jobs of those congress critters that side with Disney. This is much easier to win than the other problems you mentioned but it starts the ball rolling.

DroopyVids

mets82 · 07-15-2013, 10:47 PM

What I mean by edited or lost, I'm saying that networks have complete episodes but they skip or edit scenes for commericals and whatnot.

DroopyVids · 07-15-2013, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mets82

What I mean by edited or lost, I'm saying that networks have complete episodes but they skip or edit scenes for commericals and whatnot.

If they have the original (usually a copy) they shorten it up to make room for more commercials. The original might have been 29 minutes on a 30 minute show leaving 2 minutes for station ID and whatnot. What they have done is speed up the credits, leave out certain scenes and dump the commercials that were built into it. By the time they get done, it's a whopping 21 minutes.

The problem here is, they probably don't have the original and use an edited copy adjusting it to fit their needs. They didn't even bother to keep the orginal at all since it was probably on film or tape depending on how early or late it is. And it wasn't until around 1957 that tapes were used to capture the shows. Before that, they had to do it on film.

The "So Called" Keepers of TV and Cinema have lost a tremendous amount of work in the past. But not to worry, since it was under copyright back then, it was theirs to lose.

DroopyVids

07-04-2013, 11:23 AM	#1
DroopyVids Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jun 18, 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 82	Our Copyright System on Movies and TV programs is broken This piece is in the works and validity is being checked as it is written and will be rechecked in the end. Later on, the TV shows will be addressed and it won't be too flattering. If you have any input to this article, let me know. If I use any or part of your suggestion, credit will be given. Sorry, this is building up to present to congress and the Whitehouse so no money will be involved. This is a proposal to change the copyright laws for TV programs and Movies. Somewhere along the way, the good programming for TV and Movies have been lost. With the current copyright laws that covers Corporation Copyrights on TV and Movies, the incentive to continue to produce good quality programming has been misplaced. The Copyrights were originally designed to garner creativity. For the Authors, the intent was to be able to make enough of a living in order so that they might be able to afford to continue to create. The Berne Agreement dealt with individual copyrights. It was written prior to the forming of the modern day Corporation. There is nothing wrong with a private copyright holder to have a limit on their copyright of the author’s life plus 50 years. Private copyrights should be protected as long as the copyrights are kept current. But they should not go on for the authors life plus 95 years like the US Copyright is written today. The Berne Agreement or convention states that a country may shorten the time limit of the copyright. It has no provisions in it for lengthening the limit as the US has done. In my opinion, the last copyright law that existed was the Copyright Act of 1909 where it allowed the first copyright to be for 28 years from the public or release date and it allowed another 28 years renewal on qualified copyrights. That’s a total of 48 years. Rounding that up, 50 years is a good time for copyrights in my mind. A very good case in point is in courts today. Sometime around 1898, two sisters used an old traditional music and put to new words. It was never copyrighted. By law, Happy Birthday went into public domain in 1921 since it wasn’t renewed. After numerous “Sales and Corporate Mergers” Time/Warner ended up claiming the copyright. In order to use the song once, you are required to pay Warner Music $1500 and enter into a copyright agreement with Warner Music. If the individual copyright were to be kept current the words to that song would have gone public domain in 1921 in compliance with the copyright laws of that time. Instead, it goes on and on since it was copyrighted for in 1935 who claimed two others authored it. It’s now owned by Warner Music Company and the end of the copyright will not end until 2055. If this sounds immoral it’s because it is. But it’s Corporate so morality doesn’t come into play. How has this helped to create or perpetuate creativity? Another deal with the recovery of Copyrighted materials long after it has defaulted to Public Domain. The Corporations normally ignore these works unless it becomes popular. The worst of the cases is the 1946 “It’s a Wonderful Life” release. Republic Pictures didn’t renew the copyright and it went into Public Domain Status in 1974. But since it was a box off failure, they never bothered. It was based on a short story by Phillip Van Doren Stern under the title of “The Greatest Gift” in 1939. The story was refused by the Major Networks and Studios until 1945 when it was used as the basis for the movie. The Studio purchased the story but allowed the movie to go into public domain status. The author died in 1982 and his Executor became in charge of his assets. It was recovered under “Previous Works” in 1998 due to the passage of the “Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998”. Since it was being broadcast over many networks and released in DVD format, the Executor recovered it and now controls the movie from the Previous Works for the original Short Story. The Lawyers representing the Executor made millions for themselves suing many organizations including schools. Since the Executor converted all the original authors assets into a corporation, the copyright, now, won’t run out until 2059. How has this helped to create or perpetuate creativity?
	__________________ DroopyVids is a huge collection of Classic and Public Domain Programming. Right now, we are spending our time adding TV programming but movies are on the horizon.

07-15-2013, 06:24 PM	#6
mets82 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Mar 14, 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 5,058	I have to agree with you DroopyVids. I think the copyright laws are somewhat extreme. I mean copyrighting "Happy Birthday"? Really? Thank God for youtube so we could watch old tv shows, and old football games etc. Why should the consumer, I'm talking about Joe Palooka, have to suffer not seeing any of these shows or games? The networks don't show them, nobody put them out on DVD and when they do, they edit the hell out of them. They dub over music or they don't have the rights to the music. Even when the shows are aired on tv, like on TV Land or Hallmark Channel, there edited down, end credits crunch, there pop-up ads all over the place, they take commercials at the wrong time etc. Just leave well enough alone. I mean I think we have bigger problems (heath care, economy, gas prices, cancer) than worry about if somebody is watching an old tv show or old football game. Thats just me and my opinion.
	__________________ http://www.superbowlgreatness.blogspot.com/ Please check out my blog. I vent on all things. TV, sports etc. you name it. Its also a work in progress. Check out and see what you think.

07-14-2013, 12:14 AM	#4
bencasey Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: Long Beach Posts: 1,692	My opinion is that the way our current system works, might makes right and Disney basically bought off enough politicians to ensure that the laws were changed so they could protect Mickey Mouse from falling into P.D. When they put millions of dollars into the right pockets, it doesn't matter what is in the best interest of the public. Just look at everything else, like the health care system for instance. Public good vs multi-billion dollar insurance companies. Guess who always wins that one?

07-15-2013, 10:47 PM	#8
mets82 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Mar 14, 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 5,058	What I mean by edited or lost, I'm saying that networks have complete episodes but they skip or edit scenes for commericals and whatnot.