The Lucy Show Before A Live Audience?

[lucyandethel]

I've been watching The Lucy Show on DVD and can't help but notice all the canned laughter. Did they actually shoot this in front of an audience? By this point I noticed Lucy seems to be reading much of her lines off cue cards....I was just wondering if the show had a shorter production schedule, if her duties as Desilu president were not allowing her enough time to memorize lines and shoot in front of an audience?

[Marvo301]

I know when the Lucy Show started they were filming in front of an audience becauce it is mentioned in interviews on the DVD that Desi Arnaz Jr. and Keith Thibodeaux (the actor who played Little Ricky on I.L.L. and was still under contract to Desilu) did the audience warm-up.

[Benno123]

I'm sure that some technically diffi cult shows were filmed without an audience, but overall Lucille Ball did her series in front of an audience. I do not think it is as much canned laughter that is heard as it is "sweetening" the laugh track because, let's face it ... some of those later episodes, there just wasn't much to laugh at.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Benno123

I'm sure that some technically diffi cult shows were filmed without an audience, but overall Lucille Ball did her series in front of an audience. I do not think it is as much canned laughter that is heard as it is "sweetening" the laugh track because, let's face it ... some of those later episodes, there just wasn't much to laugh at.

Correct: other than when they filmed on location (Marineland) all the episodes were filmed in front of a live studio audience. But there was some sweetening of the laugh track, though I've only noticed that with some 3rd and 4th season episodes. Most of the laughter is authentic.

[Benno123]

Originally Posted by LittleRickyII

Correct: other than when they filmed on location (Marineland) all the episodes were filmed in front of a live studio audience. But there was some sweetening of the laugh track, though I've only noticed that with some 3rd and 4th season episodes. Most of the laughter is authentic.

In my opinion the 4th season would be where it needed it most. But even the "sweetening" laughter is still authentic, that is one great thing about shows with Lucille Ball, all the laughter is authentic as it's laughter from Lucy's show. If you watch ILL reruns you can hear spots where the laughter was sweetened because they use some of the sames laughs. One thing that annoys me about the 1960s color episodes of The Honeymooners/Jackie Gleason Show is the fact that even though an audience is present there is an overuse of several laughs, especially one with some annoying woman's laugh/screech, very short but very annoying.

A couple of years ago our nieces were visiting, and the youngest was watching some show on Nick or Disney, one of those kiddie sitcoms with about as much appeal as a dial tone. I was sitting in the room reading, not really paying attention, when I heard the laugh track, and it sounded familiar. So I stopped reading my book and listened to the laughter, and it was using the old I Love Lucy laugh track because right there infront was the "uh oh" of Lucy's mother. Like they say, if you're going to steal then steal from the best!

Of course, not all Lucy's (as we know) were filmed in front of an audience. Here's a ticket on Ebay right now for a special TV film preview for "The Ricardos Go To Japan":

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1959...item3f21bf9e7f

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Benno123

In my opinion the 4th season would be where it needed it most. But even the "sweetening" laughter is still authentic, that is one great thing about shows with Lucille Ball, all the laughter is authentic as it's laughter from Lucy's show. If you watch ILL reruns you can hear spots where the laughter was sweetened because they use some of the sames laughs. One thing that annoys me about the 1960s color episodes of The Honeymooners/Jackie Gleason Show is the fact that even though an audience is present there is an overuse of several laughs, especially one with some annoying woman's laugh/screech, very short but very annoying.

I never noticed that about Gleason's show -- I'll have to pay more attention -- but have you ever watched Ozzie & Harriet and paid attention to that laugh track? The one was the worst ever. You don't just sometimes hear the same laughter, you hear it every time! It's a one-track laugh track! If they wanted a big laugh, they would turn it up loud. If they want a short laugh, they would play it quickly. A long laugh, they'd slow it down. But regardless, it was always the same friggin' track for every supposedly funny moment of every episode for 14 years! Now that's a cheap production!

Originally Posted by Benno123

Of course, not all Lucy's (as we know) were filmed in front of an audience. Here's a ticket on Ebay right now for a special TV film preview for "The Ricardos Go To Japan":

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1959...item3f21bf9e7f

I had read years ago about at least some of these hour episodes, that weren't filmed in front of an audience, but played for preview audiences to record the laughs, but I had totally forgotten about that. Thank you for sharing the link to that E-bay item (not that I'd pay $750 for a piece of paper!). The interesting thing about this (to me) is you can recognize the episodes that weren't filmed in front of the audience because they sound like they have a laugh track; however, it's not the phony-sounding laughter that was common with laugh tracks of that era. I could never put my finger on what makes the Lucy laugh track different than all those others. Now I understand!

[Benno123]

Originally Posted by LittleRickyII

I had read years ago about at least some of these hour episodes, that weren't filmed in front of an audience, but played for preview audiences to record the laughs, but I had totally forgotten about that. Thank you for sharing the link to that E-bay item (not that I'd pay $750 for a piece of paper!). The interesting thing about this (to me) is you can recognize the episodes that weren't filmed in front of the audience because they sound like they have a laugh track; however, it's not the phony-sounding laughter that was common with laugh tracks of that era. I could never put my finger on what makes the Lucy laugh track different than all those others. Now I understand!

I read in The Lucy Book that Milton Berle remembered an audience present for some of his hour long appearance, so I'm wondering if that show was filmed with an audience for some scenes for timing, then more technical aspects like that ending number and the balcolny scene were performed without an audience and shown to the same audience to record the laughs?

I agree that you could almost never tell that any episodes were filmed without an audience, like the episode where Ricky tells the Big Bad Wolf story or the home movies episode because the laughs recorded were flawless and still real. I believe that Burns and Allen also filmed all episodes without an audience and then showed the films to record real laughs and add them to the soundtrack.

As for Gleason's 1960s show why it was felt to sweeten the laughter I don't know. The musical Honeymooners are good - not great but not bad - but outside of the songs being added these stories were already performed live (save for the 1969-1970 season when it was all brand new episodes) in the 1950s and were successful with real audience laughter present. While Gleason and Carney were fantastic, they just didn't seem to have that oompf like they did 10 years previous ... or maybe it was Sheila MacRae's fault!

[comedyfreak]

Face it, there is only one Alice Kramden and that is Audrey Meadows imo.

[Benno123]

Originally Posted by comedyfreak

Face it, there is only one Alice Kramden and that is Audrey Meadows imo.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Benno123

I believe that Burns and Allen also filmed all episodes without an audience and then showed the films to record real laughs and add them to the soundtrack.

Where did you hear that? It sounds very much like a laugh track to me.

Originally Posted by Benno123

As for Gleason's 1960s show why it was felt to sweeten the laughter I don't know. The musical Honeymooners are good - not great but not bad - but outside of the songs being added these stories were already performed live (save for the 1969-1970 season when it was all brand new episodes) in the 1950s and were successful with real audience laughter present. While Gleason and Carney were fantastic, they just didn't seem to have that oompf like they did 10 years previous ... or maybe it was Sheila MacRae's fault!

I agree. I think the music might be part of the reason the comedy doesn't play as well. And also there's sort of a feeling of going through the motions by this time. Plus, the edgier version of Alice that Audrey Meadows portrayed made the interplay between Ralph and Alice much more fun.

[Benno123]

Originally Posted by LittleRickyII

Where did you hear that? It sounds very much like a laugh track to me..

On page 138 of Say Goodnight, Gracie by Cheryl Blythe and Susan Sackett (paper edition - not sure if there was a hardback edition or not) it says:

Although George and Gracie did not want to film their show in front of a live audience, they did want the natural sounds of laughter to be on the track. Every other Thursday, George would take two edited episodes wiith him to RCA Sound Studios on Orange Avenue in Hollywood, where two hundred lucky viewers were invited to come to a preview screening of two "Burns and Allen" shows. It was at these screenings that the actual laughter of the people watching the shows for the first time was recorded and added to the sound track of the show.

The next couple of pages describes how the laughter was recorded (with 6 microphones through the theater) and how the mics would pick-up the audio of the film, giving an echo effect. If a joke did not play well then Burns would meet with the editors and either take the joke out or at that time sweeten the track. It also says that George would go to all the screenings, as well as Gracie and other cast members, and if Gracie was there then the couple would do one of the vaudeville routines.

I'll have to check George's book Gracie: A Love Story to see if he mentions anything about the filming of the series like this. He may, but it's been a long time since I read that book so I have to double check.

I still think that doing the show this way, using "real, natural" laughter and editing it in at a later date does give it a canned feel and makes the laughter sound like a laugh track to me as well.

Originally Posted by LittleRickyII

I agree. I think the music might be part of the reason the comedy doesn't play as well. And also there's sort of a feeling of going through the motions by this time. Plus, the edgier version of Alice that Audrey Meadows portrayed made the interplay between Ralph and Alice much more fun.

I think the music slows the comedy, they built a scene and just as the play off is about to come ... cue the music! I will say that a few songs are very good, while others are just blah. But that's expected turning out new songs every week for an hour show. In my opinion it's really Sheila MacRae that just doesn't seem to work. I don't think she did a bad job as Alice, it's just hard to not compare her to Audrey Meadows - and I don't think it is fair to do so, either. Jane Kean in an interview talks about during a rehearsal when Sheila MacRae sat down and started to cry and Gleason asked what was happening and she said "My Alice cries" and he said "Not on my show. You cry and the audience will hate me."

I still find myself enjoying some of the shows, and most of the time I just fast forward through the music numbers. Probably the best musical episode is actually the last black and white episode, the remake of "The Adoption" when Audrey was a guest star in January 1966.

I agree about going through the motions, I think that both Lucy and Gleason appeared, at time anyway, to just be going through the motions and churning out product more than paying attention to more quality control issues. I'm not saying that their stuff was bad - far from bad, it was still very good and in many cases outright excellent - but being popular and creating something that holds up are two different things. Maybe if Gleason would have rehearsed more and demanded better and wasn't as concerned with golf, and had Lucy demanded better written material this discussion wouldn't even be happening. But it is what it is, and how many stars from 1950s TV still had as popular of shows as these two in the mid-1960s? Not too many besides Red Skelton and Ed Sullivan.

[ajgenard]

I finally found S4 for under $10 at a used record store and after watching 3/4 of the discs, I quite agree with most people who think it's very poor compared to the first 3 (can't speak for S5 or 6, I've only seen select eps from those seasons). In addition to the writing being corny, predictable, stale, and mostly unbelievable one of the biggest reasons this season stinks is the over-tweaked laugh track.

While not 100% canned, it's blatantly obvious people weren't exactly rolling in the aisles and some touching up was needed. Unfortunately they took the mix a bit too far and it comes across as just that - some genuine mild chuckling plus occasional fake belly laughter at different volume levels to mask the audience yawning. It gives me the same level of annoyance that I have with current sitcom laughtracks, which are way too over-the-top whether the material is funny or [usually] not.

This is one of those rare instances where the sheer talent of a cast simply overrides other shoddy production values. Gale Gordon and Lucille Ball could read the phone book and make it watchable. I could tolerate this for a few seasons and complete my run of The Lucy Show, but this is exactly why I have no interest in Here's Lucy. My brain can't fathom the idea they were still drudging out this worn-dorn formula while others like The Mary Tyler Moore Show and All in the Family were literally decades ahead, and on the same network to boot!

[Benno123]

Originally Posted by ajgenard

This is one of those rare instances where the sheer talent of a cast simply overrides other shoddy production values. Gale Gordon and Lucille Ball could read the phone book and make it watchable. I could tolerate this for a few seasons and complete my run of The Lucy Show, but this is exactly why I have no interest in Here's Lucy. My brain can't fathom the idea they were still drudging out this worn-dorn formula while others like The Mary Tyler Moore Show and All in the Family were literally decades ahead, and on the same network to boot!

I have thought this same thing when watching some episodes of Here's Lucy. I've had the thought "this was airing on the same network, during the same seasons, as MTM and Archie Bunker? And during some seasons the same night as Maude? No way!!" Had it not been Lucille Ball a series like Here's Lucy never would have made it through 13 episodes, much less an entire season. But yet again, when the series played a "bit edgier" and addressed parental-children issues or did an episode that had a bit of a topical connection the series usually hit a home run.

$10 used for this release is a great deal. Had it not been that I wanted a complete series on my shelf I would not have even bothered with seasons 4 -6, though a few episodes do stand out. But not many ...

Maybe people are right, if Lucy was calling the shots along with Gary Morton then maybe Gary's best interests were not Lucy. Morton is one of the things that season 4 and Here's Lucy has in common. Just sayin' ...

[ajgenard]

Originally Posted by Benno123

I have thought this same thing when watching some episodes of Here's Lucy. I've had the thought "this was airing on the same network, during the same seasons, as MTM and Archie Bunker? And during some seasons the same night as Maude? No way!!" Had it not been Lucille Ball a series like Here's Lucy never would have made it through 13 episodes, much less an entire season. But yet again, when the series played a "bit edgier" and addressed parental-children issues or did an episode that had a bit of a topical connection the series usually hit a home run.

$10 used for this release is a great deal. Had it not been that I wanted a complete series on my shelf I would not have even bothered with seasons 4 -6, though a few episodes do stand out. But not many ...

Maybe people are right, if Lucy was calling the shots along with Gary Morton then maybe Gary's best interests were not Lucy. Morton is one of the things that season 4 and Here's Lucy has in common. Just sayin' ...

It was actually $7.99 marked down from $16.99 and even had the slipcase. Given the demographics in this area and the limited selections of sitcoms I see in local used record shops, I'm guessing it's been there a while and they were looking to move old stock. Couple years ago I snagged seasons 1-3 at Big Lots for $10 each.

Even though the show is clearly coasting at this point and I only enjoyed a few episodes, it's still worth owning for $8 just for the sake of completion. The fact the DVD releases themselves are so good makes me overlook some of the series shortcomings by this point in time. It's definitely a worthy addition to anyone's library at the right price but I won't be falling over myself to hunt down the last 2 seasons.

I've only seen a couple Here's Lucy episodes and was pretty unimpressed so I won't even bother to start collecting that series. The carryover from the latter part of The Lucy Show with Gary Morton helping steer the ship (or sink it) is pretty plain to see. I used to wonder why nobody seemed to care for Lucille Ball's later work. But now with DVDs, YouTube and other ways to see it, I now understand the rather low opinion it holds.

[Benno123]

Originally Posted by ajgenard

It was actually $7.99 marked down from $16.99 and even had the slipcase. Given the demographics in this area and the limited selections of sitcoms I see in local used record shops, I'm guessing it's been there a while and they were looking to move old stock. Couple years ago I snagged seasons 1-3 at Big Lots for $10 each.

Even though the show is clearly coasting at this point and I only enjoyed a few episodes, it's still worth owning for $8 just for the sake of completion. The fact the DVD releases themselves are so good makes me overlook some of the series shortcomings by this point in time. It's definitely a worthy addition to anyone's library at the right price but I won't be falling over myself to hunt down the last 2 seasons.

I agree, for that price who wouldn't want to have a complete set. Besides, like you said, the DVD releases are so strong that any flaws in the series can be overlooked. Season 5 is worth hunting down because the episodes improve some, but the main reason in my opinion to look for it is the "Lucy In London" special. Why the show itself isn't the best thing Lucy ever did, it certainly is not terrible and is a great period piece of the Mod '60s. If you go into the special not expecting the typical Lucy-type show then you will not be disappointed. Plus the special feature on the special that was created especially for the DVD is fantastic, and extra points for the opening bumpers ("The Andy Griffith Show" and "The Lucy Show" will not be seen tonight ones) and the "CBS presents this program in color" makes it that much special. And the picture/sound quality is FANTASTIC!

Originally Posted by ajgenard

I've only seen a couple Here's Lucy episodes and was pretty unimpressed so I won't even bother to start collecting that series. The carryover from the latter part of The Lucy Show with Gary Morton helping steer the ship (or sink it) is pretty plain to see. I used to wonder why nobody seemed to care for Lucille Ball's later work. But now with DVDs, YouTube and other ways to see it, I now understand the rather low opinion it holds.

If you can find the Shout "Best of" released in 2004 at a very low price it is worth picking up. The bonus features are outstanding, including some behind the scenes film that was not included in the season releases. To me the best bonus on this release was the behind the scenes of the episode where Lucy skydives with footage from rehearsal/filming cut in with scenes from the actual episode. Plus this release includes the "brought to you by" announcement at the beginning (no commercials, though) that have been omited from the MPI releases. Plus with this release a lot of, but not all, of the "must see" episodes are included in one place. There are some very good episodes, but steer clear of any episodes that involve a bear! Yikes!!

In regards to Gary Morton ... one book on Lucille Ball (maybe I Loved Lucy but I don't recall for sure) paints him as someone more interested in money than anything else. My impression of reading the book was that on a personal level the author came down harder on Gary Morton than maybe what was needed. The impression that I had from their marriage was that they did love one another and it was a happy marriage. But as far as the professional side of things Lucy wanted another Desi, and she tried to mold Gary into a Desi and we know how the results turned out. It's almost like having her husband being involved was a security blanket for Lucille Ball, and when one partner left the scene she forced the other to take over. It reminds me of the Beatles breaking up, and Paul McCartney replacing one partner (John Lennon) with his wife as a security blanket. Anything wrong with that? No, but as far as quality goes we can now debate if a decision like this was the best thing. Both continued to create very popular product, but was it as strong as it was before? I don't think so ...

One writer Lucy started using around the 4th season of TLS was Bob O'Brien. I've stated on here before that I just never understood why she would want to use him. He created some funny scripts in both TLS and HL, but he also created some very bland scripts where he just remade past glories into new, updated stories. Was it that everything he did bad? No, he (and the writers that Lucy used) just didn't create anything fresh or clear storylines that would create a logical story for Lucy to do something wacky.
In regards for Here's Lucy, for the most part any episode in the 4th - 6th season written by Madelyn Davis and Bob Carroll, Jr. are heads and shoulders above the rest of the other episodes. Even though they revisit previous glories (Lucy eating sour pickles and making faces when rehearsing for a TV commercial ... sounds like this was done before?) those shows written by them are still the best episodes of that series.