Just asking

[AnnaMarie]

OK, guys, I've noticed no new posts, so decided to ask you all about something.

Like I have said before, I don't think the Jo/Blair relationship was gay in any manner (yes, it's one of those topics, but no fighting ok? I'm just curious), but people have said/commented so much about how they just KNEW, they got the subtext straightaway, blah de blah.

But me, I guess I just don't have any kind of gaydar at all. I'm in my 20's, so it's not like I don't know about this stuff. But I never, ever, ever linked Jo/Blair with a gay relationship. I was happy when I stumbled across the show, and I laughed and cried at many episodes--this show just made me happy, y'know?

So there I was, watching the girls go through Peekskill, getting into Langley...and it wasn't until I read a comment on the Youtube video of "Advanced Placement"--you know, the one about how Jo had run her hand down Blair's back?--that I realized how people could be viewing this! Before that, I swear, all I saw was an awesome, strong female character (which I was not expecting in a show that old), bonding with someone who's completely her opposite. And I also loved that Blair wasn't the typical rich, blonde, mean girl--she had some feelings, some values; not to mention weird, exaggerated facial expressions (go, Lisa!).

So, that's my question? When did you all get to know about this so-called subtext? And what was your reaction to it? At first I was taking it very seriously; though it was some sort of real conspiracy that had only come to the forefront recently--when I realized what it was (what is it, exactly?)--well, I just laughed, read some fanfic, laughed some more. Sorry, it's just plain ludicrous to me. No offence meant.

[OldBiddy]

I didn't pick up any of this gay subtext at all. I'm the same age as Lisa. I watched the show back in the 80's and again last year and I saw Blair and Jo as just friends. One of the reasons I loved the show so much was that I thought their friendship was so sweet. I don't have a "gaydar" either. All of the things people interpret as lesbian signals look to me like sweet/cute girlie things. I was very surprised to read some of the things said on YouTube when I watched episodes there last year.

Whatever the producers/directors/actors intended, I enjoy the show best seeing these two as just friends.

[Riley Martin]

Originally Posted by OldBiddy

I didn't pick up any of this gay subtext at all. I'm the same age as Lisa. I watched the show back in the 80's and again last year and I saw Blair and Jo as just friends. One of the reasons I loved the show so much was that I thought their friendship was so sweet. I don't have a "gaydar" either. All of the things people interpret as lesbian signals look to me like sweet/cute girlie things. I was very surprised to read some of the things said on YouTube when I watched episodes there last year.

Whatever the producers/directors/actors intended, I enjoy the show best seeing these two as just friends.

This.

[cleverfun3000]

Well I DO happen to have "gaydar", (it comes from being totally macho to the point of instantly recognizing a "girlyman - even if it's not completely obvious) and I didn't see any definite or or even implied gay relationship between the two women at any point in their harrowing, arguementive relationship.

[retrofan05]

I am gay and never once thought of Blair and Jo as lesbians. They both had boyfriends on the show, so why should I have thought any differently? Yes Jo was more of a tomboy, but being a tomboy doesn't necessarily equate to being gay. That's nothing more than a stereotype. However, in the first season episode "Rough Housing," lesbianism actually was hinted at in Cindy who was very much of a tomboy as well. In this episode, Blair asks Cindy what's wrong with her when she sees her hugging some of the girls and tells her she's "strange." Of course in the late 70's on a show geared at kids and teens, the term "gay" or "homosexual" would never have been used. However, if you watch the episode, when you listen to the dialogue between Blair and Cindy, it is clear what Blair is getting at. The message of this episode is powerful in that it seeks to encourage girls to be themselves instead of giving in to society's unrealistic expectations of how a certain gender should dress or act.

[kc0]

You would probably be better off asking in the comments of one of the videos. There is also a livejournal board dedicated to girl relationships on the show.

I don't remember picking up on anything in the original run..I was 8 when it went off the air. However, I was watching some old shows on You Tube recently and came across the FOL episode New York, New York. I noticed it was on a channel called "QueeringOff" and that in the tags where things like "blair jo subtext". I thought..why? There is nothing in this episode that could be conceived as subtext. Then I saw that last scene and how they looked at each other and the camera zoomed in and I thought, well, maybe these people aren't so crazy after all. If it was a guy and a girl in that same scene I would have definitely thought the writers were going to start up something between the characters.

I always thought the episode Rough Housing was sort of anti-gay. They meant well, but the message that was sent was "don't worry, just because you don't like boys yet at the age of 14 doesn't mean you're gay..your 'time clock' (or whatever it was) will eventually go off". Mrs. Garrett wasn't really on her A game in the advice giving department in that first season anyway. What she should have said to Cindy is that we all deserve respect no matter how different we are from one another.

Anyway, I might be in the minority, but I don't really remember any of the girls' boyfriends really standing out when I think of the show. I didn't even remember that Jo got married. I think the writers may have done this purposely to keep the focus on the girls' friendship.

[*ROGER*]

Originally Posted by cleverfun3000

Well I DO happen to have "gaydar", it comes from being totally macho

[retrofan05]

Originally Posted by kc0

I always thought the episode Rough Housing was sort of anti-gay. They meant well, but the message that was sent was "don't worry, just because you don't like boys yet at the age of 14 doesn't mean you're gay..your 'time clock' (or whatever it was) will eventually go off". Mrs. Garrett wasn't really on her A game in the advice giving department in that first season anyway. What she should have said to Cindy is that we all deserve respect no matter how different we are from one another.

That's a good point, I defintely got that vibe when Blair called Cindy "strange." However, you have to consider that this episode aired in 1979, and the idea of embracing your sexuality wasn't really discussed much on TV.

[retrofan05]

Originally Posted by cleverfun3000

Well I DO happen to have "gaydar", (it comes from being totally macho to the point of instantly recognizing a "girlyman - even if it's not completely obvious) .

Wow, you learn something new everyday.

[fol_fan1989]

Originally Posted by retrofan05

I am gay and never once thought of Blair and Jo as lesbians. They both had boyfriends on the show, so why should I have thought any differently? Yes Jo was more of a tomboy, but being a tomboy doesn't necessarily equate to being gay. That's nothing more than a stereotype.

Same here. I never thought of them as anything more than friends, especially since they had boyfriends and Jo got married in the last season.

[fol_fan1989]

Originally Posted by kc0

I always thought the episode Rough Housing was sort of anti-gay. They meant well, but the message that was sent was "don't worry, just because you don't like boys yet at the age of 14 doesn't mean you're gay..your 'time clock' (or whatever it was) will eventually go off". Mrs. Garrett wasn't really on her A game in the advice giving department in that first season anyway. What she should have said to Cindy is that we all deserve respect no matter how different we are from one another.

I couldn't agree more.

[AnnaMarie]

Originally Posted by kc0

You would probably be better off asking in the comments of one of the videos. There is also a livejournal board dedicated to girl relationships on the show.

I know what the people there would say. What I wanted to know was the straight up response--did anyone, while watching 'Facts' for the first time, see anything going on? And I guess I'm not so dimwitted after all; no-one here has said they noticed something the first time round. Of course, once Igot to know about this aspect, I started noticing things differently.

But another thought for you all--I wish I hadn't read about this aspect while watching the show; I wonder what I would have felt on certain scenes in the show later on--especially the one where Jo come in dressed in a suit and tie, and Blair in evening dress. My jaw just dropped open at that point...

[AnnaMarie]

Originally Posted by OldBiddy

I didn't pick up any of this gay subtext at all. I'm the same age as Lisa. I watched the show back in the 80's and again last year and I saw Blair and Jo as just friends. One of the reasons I loved the show so much was that I thought their friendship was so sweet. I don't have a "gaydar" either. All of the things people interpret as lesbian signals look to me like sweet/cute girlie things. I was very surprised to read some of the things said on YouTube when I watched episodes there last year.

Whatever the producers/directors/actors intended, I enjoy the show best seeing these two as just friends.

I feel the same way thanks for replying...I also want to ask you to read my comment above. I'm very interested to know what you thought of that scene when you watched FOL for the first time.

[JoPol_wannabe]

I never thought of Jo and Blair's friendship to hint that they were gay. There relationship to me seems more like sisters.

[OldBiddy]

Originally Posted by AnnaMarie

I feel the same way thanks for replying...I also want to ask you to read my comment above. I'm very interested to know what you thought of that scene when you watched FOL for the first time.

What episode was that? I probably thought nothing of it back in the 80s. I remember mannish clothes for women were popular in the late 70s. (See movie posters for 1977 movie Annie Hall.) Same to some extent in the 80s. Before Levis made 501s for women, we used to wear the men's 501s with uber-feminine (not!) Birkenstocks. And of course we wore mannish blazers with big shoulder pads and the cuffs rolled up a la Don Johnson of Miami Vice. So seeing Jo in mannish clothes would have been no big deal. And Blair was way, WAY too girly to think of as a lesbian.