Breaking down the end of And The Dish Ran...

[Pat]

Breaking down the end of And The Dish Ran Away With The Spoon (Part 2) - my all-time favorite scene of Niles and Daphne. They're dining on the roof of Elliot Bay Towers - Frasier and Martin set them up with a wonderful diner, wine and music. What was the last part of that? What did it mean???

They get up and start dancing. Slowly the camera rises from the room
and backdrops them against the Seattle night.

Niles: So where you from?
Daphne: Manchester, England.
Niles: Oh, my. Big family?
Daphne: Hideously. And you?
Niles: I'm from a small mountain village in Tibet.

She laughs.

Niles: Tenzing Norgay used to carry me to school.

She laughs again.

Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: I think I can guess.
Niles: Yeah...

FADE OUT.


My break down

Tenzing who? For those of us not as well versed, such as I,

Tenzing Norgay, (late May 1915 – 9 May 1986) born Namgyal Wangdi and often referred to as Sherpa Tenzing, was a Nepali Sherpa mountaineer. Among the most famous mountain climbers in history, he was one of the first two individuals known to have reached the summit of Mount Everest, which he accomplished with Edmund Hillary on 29 May 1953. He was named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century.

There are conflicting accounts of his early life. The account that he gave in his autobiography, accepted for several years, is that he was a Sherpa born and brought up in Tengboche, Khumbu in northeastern Nepal.
Khumbu lies near Mount Everest, which the Tibetans and Sherpas call Chomolungma which in Tibetan means Holy Mother.
(thank you Wikipedia)

What about those last lines? What did they mean?

Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: I think I can guess.
Niles: Yeah...

I think they have to relate to his Tenzing Norgay line: Tenzing Norgay used to carry me to school.

Can anyone help me with this one?

[Pat]

In researching this more, it appears that this has been discussed on the Internet before…

From ToffeeGirl
One thing has always eaten away at me about this episode though. It's the following exchange between Niles and Daphne at the very end of the program.

Niles: So where you from?
Daphne: Manchester, England.
Niles: Oh, my. Big family?
Daphne: Hideously. And you?
Niles: I'm from a small mountain village in Tibet.
Niles: Tenzing Norgay used to carry me to school.
Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: I think I can guess.
Niles: Yeah.

Well I can’t guess and I want to know. So if anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them. Yes this may seem a little sad but it has always bugged me! Still love the episode though.
-----------------------
By Anne
Thankyou toffeegirl, the same thing has always interested me. I cannot decide what they mean?

Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: I think I can guess.
Niles: Yeah.


I put it down to physical contact, as in "I have always wanted to hold you in my arms and never let go."? then I go along the tangent of "why would you be interested in me"
The thing that tricks me is when DHP says "Yeah" he ends on a downward note. So he is agreeing with Daphne not continuing the question.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Anne.

[Pat]

Perhaps it was just dialog that wasn't supposed to have much meaning, but just to fade the episode with.

[Pat]

One fan from another site wrote:

This is one of the episodes that I would consider a "Classic" The row in the apartment between Frasier, Niles and Daphne was very funny("Oh shut up Frasier") and what can I say about the ending......just that I think it is one of the most romantic scenes ever shown on television. I loved the piece of music that Niles and Daphne danced to in this episode....does anyone know what it was called,it sounded very familiar.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Pat

One fan from another site wrote:

This is one of the episodes that I would consider a "Classic" The row in the apartment between Frasier, Niles and Daphne was very funny("Oh shut up Frasier") and what can I say about the ending......just that I think it is one of the most romantic scenes ever shown on television. I loved the piece of music that Niles and Daphne danced to in this episode....does anyone know what it was called,it sounded very familiar.

I was thinking the same thing and started to research it. At the end of the episode, Bruce Miller is credited "Music by". IMDB.com shows that for And The Dish Ran Away With The Spoon: Part 1 ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0582342/fullcredits )"Original Music by Bruce Miller". Finding his official page, I have discoverd that he has done the Frasier Theme and the "Frasier Tango" for the episode Moondance. IMDB also shows all of the credits for Bruce Miller and that they include 179 episodes of Frasier. #131 listed is And The Dish Ran Away With The Spoon: Part 1. This is strange, because the music N&D dance to are in part 2.
Looking up Bruce Miller on iTunes showed no results.

I did find the IMDB page for And The Dish Ran Away With The Spoon: Part 2 ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0582343/fullcredits#cast ) and it shows a different composer: Andrew M. Chuckerman. Now he is listed as composer: additional music.
Looking up Andrew Chuckerman resulted in an album, but nothing close to the music from the episode. Thus, I think that this music is just something Mr. Chuckerman threw together for the episode and the piece is just not available to the public.

[Pat]

Alright, here it goes... Here is my final thoughts for this line...

Niles: Tenzing Norgay used to carry me to school.
Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: I think I can guess.
Niles: Yeah.

Since Tenzing Norgay was famous for being one of the first two to reach the summit of Mt. Everest, and Niles claiming to have been carried to school by him, I think that the episode could have ended like this...

Niles: Tenzing Norgay used to carry me to school.
Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: No, what?
Niles: If Tenzing could have carried me to the top of Mount Everest.

[Kristen]

I'd just like to point out that, as much as I LOVE the rooftop scene, I couldn't resist continuing it! See my story "Hold On." It's just some romantic fluff, but still pretty cute!

[bingbangbaby]

Originally Posted by Pat

Alright, here it goes... Here is my final thoughts for this line...

Niles: Tenzing Norgay used to carry me to school.
Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: I think I can guess.
Niles: Yeah.

Since Tenzing Norgay was famous for being one of the first two to reach the summit of Mt. Everest, and Niles claiming to have been carried to school by him, I think that the episode could have ended like this...

Niles: Tenzing Norgay used to carry me to school.
Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: No, what?
Niles: If Tenzing could have carried me to the top of Mount Everest.

Perhaps it was just dialog that wasn't supposed to have much meaning, but just to fade the episode with.

Really interesting thoughts. I don't know for sure what the writers' intent was in those lines either, but I can tell you what my perception was when I first saw it (and still is now). But it's just my perception.

I always assumed the whole conversation was a result of Daphne talking about not being nervous on this first date and "why don't we start from here." So they were "starting from here" on their "first date," these two people who have known each and been friends for more than seven years now. He asked "so where you from," getting into the first date spirit, and they had some cute first date dialogue until Niles jokingly said the line about Tenzing Norgay and made her laugh. And then, the next lines, as I perceived it, came directly from their familiarity and friendship with each other and the fact that while on a first date, they do, in fact, know each other well. I perceived it to mean that with Niles's joke they were laughing at their silly first date conversation between these two good friends who have fallen in love, and with the following comments they were acknowledging to each other that they do know each other well and that they are connected and meant for each other:

Niles: You know what I've always wondered? (Translation: Niles intending to begin more serious/appropriate conversation for two good friends on a first date)
Daphne: I think I can guess. (Translation: I want to know all your thoughts and dreams but first I'm taking this opportunity to let you know that now that we're together after seven years of friendship this feels very right to me and I feel very close and very connected to you and we are so completely in synch that I bet we could guess and probably already know each other's thoughts and feelings)
Niles: Yeah. (Translation: I feel exactly the same way.)

The thing that tricks me is when DHP says "Yeah" he ends on a downward note. So he is agreeing with Daphne not continuing the question.

That, in my opinion, is an absolutely gorgeous line delivery by David. He says the word with a bit of a shyness and looking downward, a reactionary line delivery basically conveying that Niles still can't believe that she is here with him now, and that she not only has fallen in love with him but also believes they are meant to be together as he has believed for a long time now.

There could be some inside meaning to that Tenzing Norgay reference, but I don't know if we'll ever be able to know what it is. To me, it was simply meant to be an intelligent, Niles-type humorous joke for her to laugh at as well as a way to turn the conversation out of that first date playfulness, and the real meaning was not with that particular reference but in the scene and dialogue as a whole. It was a beautiful and completely romantic way for us to see that after that awful afternoon and everything Mel and Donny were putting them through, that in that moment alone they were saying to each other that they know they did the right thing and that they both know they were meant to be together. It's almost like they were taking that seven years as friends and transitioning it to soul mates. Sappy, I know, but that's what I think that whole last part was about.

Niles: So where you from?
Daphne: Manchester, England.
Niles: Oh, my. Big family?
Daphne: Hideously. And you?
(Niles laughs)
Niles: I'm from a small mountain village in Tibet.
Niles: Tenzing Norgay used to carry me to school.
(Daphne laughs)
Niles: You know what I've always wondered?
Daphne: I think I can guess.
Niles: Yeah.

[Pat]

bingbangbaby,
You always impress me with your insightful thoughts and comments.
If I didn't know better, I would second guess that you are just the huge fan we think you are and actually someone who was on the writing staff of the show.
You are incredibly brilliant and I am so glad you are on this board. I like your explanation much better than mine.

I tried to explain my deduction to my wife (not so much a fan of Frasier) and she must have thought I was lacking in sleep to come up with such an angle on it.

[bingbangbaby]

Originally Posted by Pat

You always impress me with your insightful thoughts and comments.
If I didn't know better, I would second guess that you are just the huge fan we think you are and actually someone who was on the writing staff of the show.

I wish!! I would love to have done that. Thanks for the nice compliments.

[Schmoopie]

Originally Posted by Kristen

I'd just like to point out that, as much as I LOVE the rooftop scene, I couldn't resist continuing it! See my story "Hold On." It's just some romantic fluff, but still pretty cute!

And it's completely wonderful! Romantic doesn't begin to describe it!

Thanks Pat and bingbangbaby for your insights as well. I have to admit that I was kind of curious about their conversation, although I'm sure it was just something Niles said to make her laugh.

[bingbangbaby]

Originally Posted by Kristen

I'd just like to point out that, as much as I LOVE the rooftop scene, I couldn't resist continuing it! See my story "Hold On." It's just some romantic fluff, but still pretty cute!

I don't have an account over there so I didn't review over there, but I did read and enjoy your story. Was that last line a segue to what we know is to come?

[bingbangbaby]

I was watching this episode today and I wondered about something. When Frasier went to talk to Donny at his office (when Donny decided to sue Frasier too) Donny said something interesting. He was talking about how maybe he was being too harsh with Daphne by suing her, and he said "after all, she's not totally to blame." Then Frasier chimed in and said there's plenty of blame to go around and before Donny got mad he said "I was talking about me..."

That line really makes me wonder what Donny was talking about. I realize it very well could have just been a line to lead to Frasier getting himself added to the suit, but I also wonder if there was something cut out of the episode that we never saw in the final version that would explain what Donny meant. What could he have said (or done) that would make him think that it could be grounds for Daphne to decide at the last minute not to marry him? Or maybe he meant he should have noticed how close Daphne was to Niles... although I don't think it was that obvious. Or maybe he felt he should have been tuned in to her enough to have seen what was coming earlier? It's like that comment means there was something Donny knows that could explain what happened, or in some way he thought he should have seen the signs. What do you guys think? Did you guys notice anything about this that I'm missing?

[Pat]

Very interesting. I never gave this much thought. In considering this, I think that he may have thought that it takes two to hold a relationship and thought that he could have measured up a bit more. Perhaps he was blaming himself for not paying Daphne more attention. i.e. how some people blame themselved when the other one leaves.

[bingbangbaby]

Originally Posted by Pat

Very interesting. I never gave this much thought. In considering this, I think that he may have thought that it takes two to hold a relationship and thought that he could have measured up a bit more. Perhaps he was blaming himself for not paying Daphne more attention. i.e. how some people blame themselved when the other one leaves.

Yeah, that sounds right. He wasn't exactly "tall dark and handsome" either and I think hanging on to your partner is probably always something a person worries about when their partner is more attractive than they are.