Episode - lady and daughter think she sees her army brother following them around DC

[johnnyangel]

Anybody remember this episode? Where this lady and her daughter are driving around and they keep think they are seeing her army brother (thought to be long dead) at a gas station and at the Vietnam memorial and DC?

The same episode where she put in his social security number in some computer and some guy supposedly put a gun to her back and told her to knock it off?

Any opinions on this episode. Ive read on this before as being one of the silliest UM episodes, but who do you all think the lady and her daughter were seeing, and even if this 'guy' wasn't really her brother, why did he seem to be communicating non-verbally with her?

Any opionions?? Thanks

[justins5256]

Yeah, I remember this. The soldier's name was Curt (or Kurt?) Borton Jr.

I think when I first saw this segment as a youngster, I believed that he had been recruited into some secret mission or lifestyle.

However, the older I get and the more thought I have given it, I just don't think it adds up. Wasn't the army interviewed about all of this on the program and they denied that Borton had any special qualifications that would make him a candidate for any secret ops?

I think the biggest problem I have is the woman's story about seeing him at the Wall in DC. I know she says she was concerned about her safety, but I just can't wrap my mind around her not approaching the guy if she truly thought he was her long lost brother.

Granted, I don't think the family was lying about any of this. I just think they were seeing what they wanted to see.

[Killarney Rose]

I'm torn on this story. I believe the gvmt does things- a lot of things that are top secret and we will never(and don't need to) know. So I do believe it's possible.

But It really is most likely them seeing what they want to see and nothing else.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by justins5256

Yeah, I remember this. The soldier's name was Curt (or Kurt?) Borton Jr.

I think when I first saw this segment as a youngster, I believed that he had been recruited into some secret mission or lifestyle.

However, the older I get and the more thought I have given it, I just don't think it adds up. Wasn't the army interviewed about all of this on the program and they denied that Borton had any special qualifications that would make him a candidate for any secret ops?

I think the biggest problem I have is the woman's story about seeing him at the Wall in DC. I know she says she was concerned about her safety, but I just can't wrap my mind around her not approaching the guy if she truly thought he was her long lost brother.



Granted, I don't think the family was lying about any of this. I just think they were seeing what they wanted to see.

Maybe it wasn't neccessarily secret ops, I've always wondered if the military has a witness protection program for recruits who witness something they aren't supposed to see, maybe not something with our own military but something with terrorists or even a foreign nation, and are place in such a program for their own safety once they get out of the military. Who knows?

[DarkDante]

Originally Posted by justins5256

Yeah, I remember this. The soldier's name was Curt (or Kurt?) Borton Jr.

I think when I first saw this segment as a youngster, I believed that he had been recruited into some secret mission or lifestyle.

However, the older I get and the more thought I have given it, I just don't think it adds up. Wasn't the army interviewed about all of this on the program and they denied that Borton had any special qualifications that would make him a candidate for any secret ops?

I think the biggest problem I have is the woman's story about seeing him at the Wall in DC. I know she says she was concerned about her safety, but I just can't wrap my mind around her not approaching the guy if she truly thought he was her long lost brother.

Granted, I don't think the family was lying about any of this. I just think they were seeing what they wanted to see.

Are you sure about that JS? For me this case was one of the more obvious hoax cases in the history of UM. There is that possibility obviously that the family was so invested in the idea that Curt Borton was still alive that they were starting to read too much into everyday situations but I think the possibility of a hoax is also likely.

[justins5256]

Originally Posted by DarkDante

Are you sure about that JS? For me this case was one of the more obvious hoax cases in the history of UM. There is that possibility obviously that the family was so invested in the idea that Curt Borton was still alive that they were starting to read too much into everyday situations but I think the possibility of a hoax is also likely.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I believe they were sincere in their belief that Borton was alive. The evidence they presented to support that belief is flimsy and questionable, but the thought that they perpetuated some sort of a hoax never entered my mind.

[LaurierCrimmajor]

This one always weirded me out.

Truth be told, I believe that grieving families will grasp at any and all straws to simply find solace and hope against hope that their lost loved ones are still alive or in other instances often featured on UM, did not commit suicide but were rather murdered etc. I don't blame them whatsoever, however I'm often tenative to place too much credence in many of these cases that seem to defy odds and logic...

WITH THAT SAID, there have been oh so many UM episodes where there feels like there's more to the story to simply discount them and especially when I hear that the government and military are involved, I'm far more open to suspicion and conspiracy theories...maybe I've read too many James Ellroy novels, but I never take the words of the CIA and other likeminded gov't agencies as gospel(far from it) and am always interested in a deeper look.

I really don't know what to make out of this particular case, but I don't write it off completely as just a grieving family grasping at straws. This one isn't as iron-clad as some of the UM episodes where suicides have been uncovered to be murders after all(correlating the family's response and desperation for further desparation) but I don't think this is too far-fetched when you read novels about CIA spooks etc.

[RobinW]

I definitely agree that Curt Borton died in Vietnam and that the family was simply just seeing what they wanted to see most of the time, such as with the magazine photograph and the supposed sightings of Curt in Washington. However, assuming that they're not flat-out lying about everything, I just don't know what to make of those DOD agents approaching Curt's father in public to get him to sign a document declaring Curt legally dead and then sending him a $43,000 check. Unless Curt's father just happened to earn $43,000 in a not-so-legal way and dreamed up with a very elaborate story to explain how he got it .

I also find it funny that even though the military usually declined to participate in UM segments about possible cover-ups, here they had no hesitation about letting a spokesperson appear on camera to deny it, as if to say: "Whatever, we got nothing to hide on this one".

[TheCars1986]

Those pictures that the family believed to be Curt, looked NOTHING like him at all to me. And why would the government keep Curt sheltered for this long, all the while keeping the ruse going that he was dead? Especially if he was 19 years old with only eight months military service at the time he was declared dead. What exactly could Curt Borton have on the military that would warrant them to keep him alive and hidden for over 40 years? I just don't believe it.

[Thiussat]

Originally Posted by RobinW

I definitely agree that Curt Borton died in Vietnam and that the family was simply just seeing what they wanted to see most of the time, such as with the magazine photograph and the supposed sightings of Curt in Washington. However, assuming that they're not flat-out lying about everything, I just don't know what to make of those DOD agents approaching Curt's father in public to get him to sign a document declaring Curt legally dead and then sending him a $43,000 check.

It could have been innocent. The guys could have wanted to declare him dead to "get it off the books" so to say. There were a lot of people MIA in Vietnam, and I would wager 90% of them were KIA and just never found (as opposed to being captured, etc.) It could be that the military was simply reviewing all MIA cases and came across Kurt. They probably reviewed it and figured that even though they had no body, there was strong enough evidence to go ahead and declare him KIA instead of MIA.

In any case, my point is that just because the father got visited by the military doesn't mean his son was a secret agent. There are other possible explanations.

Now for a story: My father was in Vietnam in the Army's 1st Cavalry in 66-67 (drafted out of High school). He told a story about how he and another guy were sitting in the jungle eating their C-rations one day. Suddenly he heard a thud and noticed the guy beside him went down (it was the platoon's Lieutenant). He had been hit by a sniper. Then the guys in his platoon started firing back. At any rate, after the firefight was over, someone told him "look at your shirt." He looked down and noticed he had the dead guy's brains all over it. He thought to himself "God that could have been me, why didn't the sniper pick me?" He told me that after a few months in his tour, he just learned to accept that some bullet somewhere probably had his name on it and he would never get out alive. Luckily he made it through.

He told me the Lieutenant's name (the one who got hit by the sniper), so I went and looked it up on Google. (My father only told me Vietnam stories when he had been drinking, so I wanted to check it out). Indeed I found this guy's name on the list of the KIA in Vietnam and verified that my father's memory was spot on. While google searching, I also found an Internet post by someone saying "I want to find anyone who served with my father, Lt. so-in-so." So, the son of the guy killed by the sniper was looking for people who knew his dad. It is very likely this guy never got to meet his father, so I wanted to respond. In fact, I was also doing the same thing (looking for people who knew my dad, as my dad had just passed away at the time). I tried to respond to the guy on the forum but his e-mail address had been changed. It kinda made me sad because I wanted to tell him how much my father liked and respected him. He told me it was the only death (of many) he witnessed that "really got to him."

Sorry for the digression, but I thought this story fit into the thread.

[McBevis]

Whether or not Curt is still alive I really don't know, however I think there is much more to this story than a family simply not being able to come to terms with their son's death. At least in my opinion, whenever there is suspicion of a military or government cover-up, I sincerely believe that it's the truth, because there have been many UM segments where they have called people liars (or even become hostile in some cases) whenever civilians have compelling evidence that could potentially expose some less-than-kosher goings-on within the military or government. I'm not sure whether or not anybody remembers this particular segment, but there was a guy named Glenn Dennis who, back in 1947, believed he came upon evidence of the existence of aliens in connection with the infamous Roswell incident, and when a military officer found out about that, the officer threatened Glenn Dennis with death if he didn't keep his mouth shut, and I unfortunately don't believe that to be an isolated incident. IMO, occurrences like that are probably more common than we'd probably like to think, and getting back to the Curt Borton case, I found it deeply disturbing when Diane Borton's cousin was approached by that guy who poked a gun in his stomach and coolly threatened him because he'd come upon evidence that Curt might still be alive. If there is some kind of cover-up, which I believe there is, the gun-toting guy is definitely part of it. I just can't imagine a complete stranger with no knowledge of or connection to the case being responsible for such a bizarre and disturbing incident.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by Thiussat

It could have been innocent. The guys could have wanted to declare him dead to "get it off the books" so to say. There were a lot of people MIA in Vietnam, and I would wager 90% of them were KIA and just never found (as opposed to being captured, etc.) It could be that the military was simply reviewing all MIA cases and came across Kurt. They probably reviewed it and figured that even though they had no body, there was strong enough evidence to go ahead and declare him KIA instead of MIA.

But if that's the case, I don't know why they would keep approaching Kurt's father in public places. If they had just come to his home in a professional manner and asked him to legally declare his son dead, he probably would have signed the document the first time without hesitation. And is it normal procedure for the government to pay a family thousands of dollars to declare their son KIA?

Either Curt's father completely made this story up or there is something screwy about this case.

[TheCars1986]

The one thing that's making me not want to completely doubt the family's story is the man who approached the cousin (who worked for a security company and looked up Curt's social security number) and pulled a gun on him and told him to never do something like that again. That right there is either one of the most remarkable coincidences ever and the man who drew the gun approached the wrong guy, or the cousin was legitimately threatened for looking into information on Curt Borton. Of course the guy could be making the whole thing up, but what motive what he have in doing that? And wasn't the other cousin being followed? IIRC, he approached the car that was following him and confronted them and then he was never followed again. That is another weird little tidbit about this story that makes the family more believable, IMO.

[DarkDante]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

The one thing that's making me not want to completely doubt the family's story is the man who approached the cousin (who worked for a security company and looked up Curt's social security number) and pulled a gun on him and told him to never do something like that again. That right there is either one of the most remarkable coincidences ever and the man who drew the gun approached the wrong guy, or the cousin was legitimately threatened for looking into information on Curt Borton. Of course the guy could be making the whole thing up, but what motive what he have in doing that? And wasn't the other cousin being followed? IIRC, he approached the car that was following him and confronted them and then he was never followed again. That is another weird little tidbit about this story that makes the family more believable, IMO.

It's funny how two people can watch the same thing and get two completely different reactions to it. Nearly everything you just posted Cars, is exactly why I find this segment so unbelievable. The whole thing seems like it's ripped right out of the pages of a suspense novel.

Private citizens having guns pulled on them in broad daylight, strange encounters with shady individuals, people being followed by individuals alluded to be some type of black ops agents.

The whole segment reads as if it was ripped from a rejected script of an episode of "Alias" or something along those lines.

As to why someone would make this all up? Simple: publicity.

[scc1222]

right,why would they approach his father in public? that doesn't make any sense.
IF this story is true,and I have no opinion on it either way...then the family knows more than was revealed on UM,seeing as the sister said she was afraid to approach Curt at the memorial,due to something someone said about him being dangerous (which doesn't make any sense,esp. since they were in public).so who would know something and why would they say it,and what did they say?
I don't put too much stock into the gas station sighting...lots of goofy ppl say weird things sometimes just to get attn,and could have followed her for the same reason.doesn't mean it was Curt.I also don't get why they wouldn't have followed the car off the exit ramp if they really thought it might be Curt.just a lot of things don't add up,but I'm not ready to dismiss it all yet.I don't think anyone will ever know what the truth is on this one.I don't put much stock into the pics though...a family really wanting to see their loved one could easily fool themselves into thinking it was him.jmo.