As Groundbreaking As TMTMS Was, Was It Also Sexist Towards Women?!?

[Brian Damage]

I'm not embarrassed to say I love coming home from the Index late at night and unwinding with a few or five episodes of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show."

If you're not familiar with it, "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" is one of those glorious 1970s sitcoms that used to air on Nick at Nite before George Lopez and that guy from "My Wife and Kids" ruined the meaning of Nick at Nite. Come on, those shows were made during the 2000s! And they are dumb.

But I suppose the show I love is kind of dumb too. The plot lines of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" are silly and kind of sexist (Mary's boss Mr. Grant hires a secretary because he likes her butt during one episode), but I know why I love it. It reminds me of my mom. Because my mom is a sexist dummy.

Just kidding, mom. My mom is awesome. The show reminds me of her because she loves it more than I do and because she looks and acts like Mary Tyler Moore. When I'm home, we watch our DVD collection together in her room and eat snacks.

Mary Richards, played by the tall but adorable Mary Tyler Moore, is a single woman making it on her own in the mean city of Minneapolis, working as an associate producer in an all-male newsroom. Her apartment is awesome, everyone always falls in love with her and her best friend is a spunky Jewish gal named Rhoda Morgenstern who lives in the apartment upstairs.

Mary has it all, and like most sitcom stars, she has a lot of goofy problems and miscommunications in relationships that quickly are resolved and never spoken about again.

For example, in the episode "It's Whether You Win or Lose," we discover that Mary's good friend and co-worker Murray Slaughter has a severe gambling addiction that almost destroyed his marriage—a problem which makes the office poker game hilarious. Luckily, Murray is cured forever after Mary confronts him and he agrees gambling isn't that great.

Watching Mary Tyler Moore in my little apartment in Kirksville reminds me of being home with my mom. Although it's my last year in college, I still feel homesick sometimes and wish I could just apparate home for the night and for breakfast in the morning. I don't think that occasional craving will go away after graduation. I'll probably always become a little homesick from time to time.

Doing things like watching "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" on Hulu is silly, but it's comforting. We should all make time to do things that remind us of home — whether it's a too-cheesy casserole, a ratty sweatshirt or a silly TV show.

I'm preparing to move far away from home a few months from now, and I'm ready to be an adult. But I know that when I'm living in a new city, there will be some days I'll want to climb into my mom's bed and watch a disc of Mary Tyler Moore, and I won't be able to.

I'll have to settle for a phone call home and a Hulu playlist. But I think it will be more comforting than sad because I know home, just like Mary Tyler Moore, will be there when I really need it.

http://www.trumanindex.com/old-sitco...orts-1.2802543

[ajgenard]

I have to respectfully disagree with the author that the show should be characterized as silly. If anything, when I hear the words The Mary Tyler Moore Show the first thing that comes to mind is "milestone in serious-minded situational comedy". Sure, it is guilty of significant issues arising and being resolved within 1 episode only to never be heard of again. But I defy anyone to name a single sitcom where this doesn't happen multiple times. It's inherently part of the genre. Very, very few shows up to that point were written as real conversations & situations people could actually have. TMTMS was definitely a pioneer in realistic "non-silly" sitcoms.

As far as the sexist angle - that was definitely one of the issues they were purposely addressing on a subtle level. Considering sexism was a common practice in the workplace back then and not so much now, it loses a good portion of its power when viewed in the modern world.

After all, how silly could it possibly be - it's one of the most acclaimed shows in history. I'm certainly not embarrassed to say I thoroughly enjoy it. Gilligan's Island is a guilty pleasure, not TMTMS.

[OH Nuts!]

Originally Posted by ajgenard

it's one of the most acclaimed shows in history. I'm certainly not embarrassed to say I thoroughly enjoy it. Gilligan's Island is a guilty pleasure, not TMTMS.

Amen to that. I adore the show too. TMTMS is like a healthy food that tastes great too. This magnificent show still holds up even after (nearly) 4o yrs.

[Lovey]

Originally Posted by ajgenard

I have to respectfully disagree with the author that the show should be characterized as silly. If anything, when I hear the words The Mary Tyler Moore Show the first thing that comes to mind is "milestone in serious-minded situational comedy". Sure, it is guilty of significant issues arising and being resolved within 1 episode only to never be heard of again. But I defy anyone to name a single sitcom where this doesn't happen multiple times. It's inherently part of the genre. Very, very few shows up to that point were written as real conversations & situations people could actually have. TMTMS was definitely a pioneer in realistic "non-silly" sitcoms.

As far as the sexist angle - that was definitely one of the issues they were purposely addressing on a subtle level. Considering sexism was a common practice in the workplace back then and not so much now, it loses a good portion of its power when viewed in the modern world.

After all, how silly could it possibly be - it's one of the most acclaimed shows in history. I'm certainly not embarrassed to say I thoroughly enjoy it. Gilligan's Island is a guilty pleasure, not TMTMS.

Gilligan's Island is my guilty pleasure too, as my username sugests! Come on over to the borad if you haven't!

[Retro4Life]

It wasn't the SHOW that was sexist when it showed Lou hiring Mary partly for her figure, it was LOU. I just love these 20 something reviewers who can't tell the difference in perspective between show and the characters IN the show!

[Kristen]

Exactly, Retro! It's like w/ All the Family, where the show used Archie Bunker's opinions to illustrate their points. Not that the writers actually agreed w/ him! And I think you can tell from some of the later episodes that by the end, Lou's POV had changed, prob. thanks mostly to Mary's influence.

- Kristen

[scotsguy]

I agree with other posts,the show was never silly.

In the 70s then,a single woman with a career was groundbreaking,Mary was

entering a Man's world with her job at WJM-TV,Lou was a sexist Boss but he

did have a heart of gold,the show dealt with this subject and others in a non preachy

way.

The show dealt always in a humourous way,with serious issues like death,mid life crisis,divorce,strained relations with parents,infedility(Lars!)

The show was first rate and improved from season one with more depth to Lou and Ted etc,much as I love the spinoff "Rhoda",sadly it lost its way after season 3.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by ajgenard

I have to respectfully disagree with the author that the show should be characterized as silly. If anything, when I hear the words The Mary Tyler Moore Show the first thing that comes to mind is "milestone in serious-minded situational comedy".

I'm totally with you on this! That line really jumped out at me, so I kept reading, waiting for examples of silly plots, but the only example I saw was "Mary's boss Mr. Grant hires a secretary because he likes her butt during one episode." If the author thinks that never happens, she's naive. I'm going to chalk it up to her age because, these days, you don't hear of such things very often because employers aren't going to say that out loud as there could be serious legal consequences. But in the '70s, before Anita Hill and a national conversation about sexual harassment, and at a time when people were just starting to talk about sex discrimination -- there were few laws to protect against sex discrimination until after the late '70s -- this was a very real and common thing. Men in power would make comments like that without fear of retribution. Chauvinistic behaviors and attitudes were a big part of our culture. The author has grown up in a time when that has all but vanished from our culture, at least on the surface, so she's probably unaware that it was so prevalent and women often did find themselves competing for certain jobs on the basis of looks. Heck, airlines wouldn't even hire women as flight attendants (called stewardesses then) unless they were young and attractive. Looks were a primary qualification for the job!

[ajgenard]

Originally Posted by Retro4Life

It wasn't the SHOW that was sexist when it showed Lou hiring Mary partly for her figure, it was LOU. I just love these 20 something reviewers who can't tell the difference in perspective between show and the characters IN the show!

Speaking as a 26 year old male who grew up in middle class suburbs, I definitely concur with your observation about my generation. It's extremely difficult for me to discuss any TV or film with people my age - particularly anything from a different era that had different attitudes and circumstances. They simply can't comprehend the idea of people coming from another time and another place (i.e. a time WITHOUT Facebook, Twitter, instant music, crappy reality shows or any other narcissistic marvel the world thrives on today). It's almost as if they've forgotten everything taught in elementary school English class about creating a story and placing themselves in the context of the author. In their mind, if a character shows the slightest signs of being sexist/racist/whatever then the whole show is also sexist/racist/whatever and therefor silly.

I recall about a year ago someone telling me that she refused to watch Mad Men because it "glorified smoking cigarettes, drinking in the workplace and womanizing." I tried rationally explaining that Mad Men glorifies those things in about the same way that Romeo & Juliet glorifies suicide. It was impossible for this person understand that the show is illuminating issues that actually existed once upon a time. But to her the show was silly and unrealistic. It's quite scary that a college educated person can have such a distorted view of someone else's perspective...if that makes any sense.

[70s show watcher]

it was not sexest then and its not now

[OH Nuts!]

The show itself was not sexist; by showing the ridiculousness of some of the sexist attitudes of Lou and Ted, it helped discourage sexist thinking. (Another one of the show's wonderful attributes!!)