Why do people dislike the character of Ginger? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Teebs · 02-23-2012, 08:14 AM

I've created this thread because Ginger is a 'love her or hate her' kind of character. I don't think any of the other castaways stir up such extreme emotions among viewers ( particularly female viewers) and certainly writers of fanfiction. (Who are also primarily female.)

Why do people dislike Ginger? Is it mainly because of Tina Louise's reputation on set?

Bob Denver reportedly locked horns with Tina all the time. She 'hogged the makeup chair', she made diva demands. In his book, Gilligan, Maynard And Me, he takes several swipes at her, which I find completely hilarious, considering his book was written in like, 1993 and he's still bitchin'.

Tina Louise had that reputation, but I doubt they were all angels. Anyone knows that in any close professional working group, there is always the scapegoat, the one that everyone else gangs up on, usually in subtle ways, like "Uh-oh, here comes so-and-so."

I really doubt that Tina was the absolute beyotch that she has become in the eyes of many. Her spats with Bob Denver were probably because they were both strong-willed people. Bob was the star, fresh from his success on Dobie Gillis, he was probably beginning to feel invincible. Tina, by all accounts was 'tricked' into joining GI because her agent told her she would be the star. But I doubt either Bob or Tina came away permanently scarred from their battles.

I think Ginger Grant is a fascinating character and much misunderstood. She came out of Hollywood and ended up on an island stranded with 6 other people that she may never have crossed paths with if she hadn't taken the 3 hour tour. In the early days she colluded with Mr. Howell to try and scam either Gilligan or the entire group. She came on to Gilligan more times than I've had hot dinners. But was Gilligan mentally or emotionally destroyed by her unwanted advances? No- he improved his game. By season 3 he just let her get on with it.

Okay, I'm just babbling now. But it would be interesting to see what everyone else thinks of Ginger. Whether it's because you genuinely don't like the character, or whether your feelings are based on the reputation that Tina Louise had.

Thank you! Off my soapbox now.

ph1l · 02-24-2012, 05:05 AM

I'm only basing my comments on the Ginger character. I don't care what happens off the set as long as it doesn't encroach on the performances on set. And I've never noticed anything in any of the episodes.
I didn't like the character when I was young because of her amourous nature. Girl germs and all that stuff. But these days I appreciate the character more and quite like her.

biffbronson · 02-24-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teebs

Tina, by all accounts was 'tricked' into joining GI because her agent told her she would be the star.

I've never understood that fully -- once she learned that the series title would refer to Bob's character...??

The Flying Dutchmans · 02-24-2012, 06:01 PM

I don't dislike her character, but I don't like her nearly as much as the others. I think many peoples dislike of her character stems allot from Tina Louise and the fact that she was ashamed of GI and anything that reminded her of GI for many years. Even for the TV movie "Rescue from GI" she wanted an unheard of amount to reprise the Ginger character. obviously her way of saying I don't want to play the part. On the TV land awards, she wouldn't even sit with Dawn and Russel, she sat with Carol Burnett. But in her late 70s, she seems to have had a total change of heart about GI. I think the change came around the time she did the cameo on the GI episode of Rosanne, but even in that episode she didn't play Ginger. she played Rosanne.

Teebs · 02-25-2012, 11:25 AM

I agree with everyone who thinks the dislike of Ginger stems from the 'dislike' of Tina. But it shouldn't, because despite what went on behind the scenes, it didn't rub off on her portrayal of the character. Ginger starts out as a femme fatale and gradually progresses to a team player. She's never a complete b*tch. And her seductions nearly always fail anyway, no matter who she tries it on with, which is not only funny, but makes me sympathise with her. I love when she breaks the fourth wall and shrugs at the camera, or swans off rolling her eyes because Gilligan has outsmarted her.

Tina should have embraced GI. It didn't ruin her career, it brought her into the spotlight. But I'm sad, as a GI fan, that her off-screen antics clouded the way Ginger was received. Because as much as I love Mary Ann, there are times when I think that Ginger actually shows more vulnerability.

THERE. I've said it.

mystery_daisy · 02-25-2012, 02:28 PM

Ginger was all right. I never hated her but admittedly I did like Mary Ann better because let's face it, Mary Ann was the more likable character. Ginger was funny and Tina played her part well, with the stunning red hair and all the sparkly gowns that she'd somehow brought onto a boat for a short tour, LOL.
Sure she should have relied on her smarts more than her manipulative sexual thing she couldn't seem to shake. Again, this was her character.
I don't know about any of the off the show publicity, but I have noticed that many times when a female actress gets a little power she must be "taken down a notch" in the press for petty things that would only be chalked up to assertiveness had a male actor done the same thing. Just my 2 cents.

Retro4Life · 02-25-2012, 04:25 PM

Another thing to consider is that while Mary Ann is probably the more popular character of the two, there wasn't really much depth to her. Nothing against Dawn Wells, who by all accounts is an absolute dream, and could only do so much with the scripts that were given to her, but for the most part Mary Ann was "nice". That's about it; nice. She looked great and was a bit naive but really didn't have a lot of dimension and Ginger did have a "bit" of dimension, via her seducing and crying jags and manipulation of men. So it's easy to like a character who really never does anything wrong or controversial, while those that do show a bit of depth like Ginger or Mr. Howell, get dumped on a bit.

I do think that Louise's attitude toward the show probably also greatly contributes to the feeling about Ginger, whether fairly or not.

JWood201 · 02-25-2012, 06:47 PM

I think there's a certain amount of depth to all the characters if you look hard enough. Yes, some more than others.

Admittedly, I didn't like Ginger when I was younger, either. I thought she was "gross." But, hey, I was seven and people always called me Ginger (thank god it didn't make me hate being a redhead) and I would always react like, "What? Ew! No!" But being older I understand her more and I see the different facets to her character and I think she's fascinating. I think she's one of the more psychologically interesting characters on the show, which is probably partly a credit to Tina's skill that she laments that she never got to use.

I don't know whether or not Tina's "reputation" had anything to do with people disliking her, but at the time I didn't know anything about any off-screen business, so it didn't affect my opinion.

It does make me sad that she was so against the show, though. I understand where she was coming from with her frustration, but who knows if she would have had a big career without it anyway. The show brought her international recognition. If you don't want to be associated with something, don't sign on to do it and then don't be cranky about it after the fact.

I've always liked Mary Ann more anyway, regardless of any real life business. When I was little I wanted her to be my friend or my big sister and then I wanted to be her. I still kinda do. Although these days I want to be like Dawn - she's awesome and more hilariously inappropriate than Mary Ann, haha.

PartyOfOne · 02-26-2012, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teebs

I've created this thread because Ginger is a 'love her or hate her' kind of character. I don't think any of the other castaways stir up such extreme emotions among viewers ( particularly female viewers) and certainly writers of fanfiction. (Who are also primarily female.)

Why do people dislike Ginger? Is it mainly because of Tina Louise's reputation on set?

Bob Denver reportedly locked horns with Tina all the time. She 'hogged the makeup chair', she made diva demands. In his book, Gilligan, Maynard And Me, he takes several swipes at her, which I find completely hilarious, considering his book was written in like, 1993 and he's still bitchin'.

Tina Louise had that reputation, but I doubt they were all angels. Anyone knows that in any close professional working group, there is always the scapegoat, the one that everyone else gangs up on, usually in subtle ways, like "Uh-oh, here comes so-and-so."

I really doubt that Tina was the absolute beyotch that she has become in the eyes of many. Her spats with Bob Denver were probably because they were both strong-willed people. Bob was the star, fresh from his success on Dobie Gillis, he was probably beginning to feel invincible. Tina, by all accounts was 'tricked' into joining GI because her agent told her she would be the star. But I doubt either Bob or Tina came away permanently scarred from their battles.

I think Ginger Grant is a fascinating character and much misunderstood. She came out of Hollywood and ended up on an island stranded with 6 other people that she may never have crossed paths with if she hadn't taken the 3 hour tour. In the early days she colluded with Mr. Howell to try and scam either Gilligan or the entire group. She came on to Gilligan more times than I've had hot dinners. But was Gilligan mentally or emotionally destroyed by her unwanted advances? No- he improved his game. By season 3 he just let her get on with it.

Okay, I'm just babbling now. But it would be interesting to see what everyone else thinks of Ginger. Whether it's because you genuinely don't like the character, or whether your feelings are based on the reputation that Tina Louise had.

Thank you! Off my soapbox now.

I would say it doeshave something to do with Louise herself. However, IMO, the character served absolutely no purpose. She was nowhere near as good-looking as the character thought she was. Perhaps a different actress would have made it better but probably not much.

Teebs · 02-27-2012, 06:59 AM

See, I didn't grow up with GI, (although I do have very vague memories of it from long ago). I only started watching it 18 months ago, and I was told about Tina Louise not liking the show almost immediately, so it did have a smal effect on how I saw Ginger. I was kind of disappointed to hear that one of the cast members wasn't happy, because GI is such a happy show. Oh, I know these were 'real people' and their working days would not have been all sparkly sunshine from morning to night, just because they were creating a show that was sunny and sweet. But Tina did such a good job with Ginger that I wonder if her performance might have been EVEN BETTER had she fully embraced the role the way the others embraced theirs.

I dunno. I like Ginger, and I like Mary Ann. But Mary Ann's full potential wasn't realised either. Once she started putting her hands on her hips and rolling her eyes in disapproval at everyone, she lost some of her girlish charm- for me, anyway. Perhaps it was because she had given up trying to get Gilligan's attention and was turning into an old maid before her time, haha. (JWood201, I'm kidding. I'll ship MAG until the day I die.)

JWood201 · 02-27-2012, 10:59 AM

Ginger absolutely served a purpose.

Why would they waste their time writing a character and paying an actress for a character that served no purpose?

Her purpose, at least at the beginning, was to be Mary Ann's foil, Howell's accomplice, and Proffy's potential love interest / lab assistant. She routinely had good ideas that helped the cause of the week, sometimes her seductions of the guests worked (for a second, until they called her out on it).

It may not always seem like a character is doing much, but structurally, from a writing standpoint, everyone is necessary. Try taking her out of certain episodes. Although, I admit that the girls do absolutely nothing sometimes, but that's a logical and structural decision as well. Without Ginger, certain episodes just don't work.

It's like on GLEE. Sue Sylvester is a main character, is very important, and serves an important function. Yet she is not in every single episode.

Teebs · 02-27-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

It's like on GLEE. Sue Sylvester is a main character, is very important, and serves an important function. Yet she is not in every single episode.

Was there ever an episode of GI where a single cast member was not present? I think all episodes featured all castaways to some extent, even when it wasn't 'their' episode.

Ginger was totally necessary. Just ask any red-blooded male viewer.

JWood201 · 02-27-2012, 04:09 PM

No, you're right, everyone was in every episode. Because they're on an island, it'd be impossible to have an episode without someone. But the point I was making is that everyone has a function and even though they're not necessary to individual episodes all the time, they're necessary to the whole. There are certain episodes where MA and Ginger barely show up.

Teebs · 02-27-2012, 04:15 PM

I always find it funny that even though Ginger is the vamp and the femme fatale, her seduction techniques never work on anyone. Except I think the robot blew a gasket...

She was always quite good humoured about it, though!

bliss · 02-28-2012, 07:57 PM

Ginger/Tina was my favorite character on the show! She was beautiful, glamourous, and funny at the same time. She had the look of sexy movie stars Marilyn Monroe & Jayne Mansfield. I wished the producers paid the amount Tina demanded so at least fans can see her in one of the reunion TV movies. It would've been a REAL reunion with all the castaways.

02-23-2012, 08:14 AM	#1
Teebs Dusty nut Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 30, 2011 Location: Are we there yet? Posts: 454	Why do people dislike the character of Ginger? I've created this thread because Ginger is a 'love her or hate her' kind of character. I don't think any of the other castaways stir up such extreme emotions among viewers ( particularly female viewers) and certainly writers of fanfiction. (Who are also primarily female.) Why do people dislike Ginger? Is it mainly because of Tina Louise's reputation on set? Bob Denver reportedly locked horns with Tina all the time. She 'hogged the makeup chair', she made diva demands. In his book, Gilligan, Maynard And Me, he takes several swipes at her, which I find completely hilarious, considering his book was written in like, 1993 and he's still bitchin'. Tina Louise had that reputation, but I doubt they were all angels. Anyone knows that in any close professional working group, there is always the scapegoat, the one that everyone else gangs up on, usually in subtle ways, like "Uh-oh, here comes so-and-so." I really doubt that Tina was the absolute beyotch that she has become in the eyes of many. Her spats with Bob Denver were probably because they were both strong-willed people. Bob was the star, fresh from his success on Dobie Gillis, he was probably beginning to feel invincible. Tina, by all accounts was 'tricked' into joining GI because her agent told her she would be the star. But I doubt either Bob or Tina came away permanently scarred from their battles. I think Ginger Grant is a fascinating character and much misunderstood. She came out of Hollywood and ended up on an island stranded with 6 other people that she may never have crossed paths with if she hadn't taken the 3 hour tour. In the early days she colluded with Mr. Howell to try and scam either Gilligan or the entire group. She came on to Gilligan more times than I've had hot dinners. But was Gilligan mentally or emotionally destroyed by her unwanted advances? No- he improved his game. By season 3 he just let her get on with it. Okay, I'm just babbling now. But it would be interesting to see what everyone else thinks of Ginger. Whether it's because you genuinely don't like the character, or whether your feelings are based on the reputation that Tina Louise had. Thank you! Off my soapbox now.

02-24-2012, 05:05 AM	#2
ph1l Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 19, 2004 Posts: 1,362	I'm only basing my comments on the Ginger character. I don't care what happens off the set as long as it doesn't encroach on the performances on set. And I've never noticed anything in any of the episodes. I didn't like the character when I was young because of her amourous nature. Girl germs and all that stuff. But these days I appreciate the character more and quite like her.
	__________________ 60's TV forever

02-24-2012, 06:01 PM	#4
The Flying Dutchmans Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 30, 2006 Location: New York Posts: 1,017	I don't dislike her character, but I don't like her nearly as much as the others. I think many peoples dislike of her character stems allot from Tina Louise and the fact that she was ashamed of GI and anything that reminded her of GI for many years. Even for the TV movie "Rescue from GI" she wanted an unheard of amount to reprise the Ginger character. obviously her way of saying I don't want to play the part. On the TV land awards, she wouldn't even sit with Dawn and Russel, she sat with Carol Burnett. But in her late 70s, she seems to have had a total change of heart about GI. I think the change came around the time she did the cameo on the GI episode of Rosanne, but even in that episode she didn't play Ginger. she played Rosanne.
	__________________ A strange red light as of a phantom ship all aglow, in the midst of which light the mast, spars and sails of a brig 200 yards distant stood out in strong relief." The Flying Dutchman

02-25-2012, 02:28 PM	#6
mystery_daisy True Crime Buff Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 14, 2006 Location: Galveston Bay Posts: 3,118	Ginger was all right. I never hated her but admittedly I did like Mary Ann better because let's face it, Mary Ann was the more likable character. Ginger was funny and Tina played her part well, with the stunning red hair and all the sparkly gowns that she'd somehow brought onto a boat for a short tour, LOL. Sure she should have relied on her smarts more than her manipulative sexual thing she couldn't seem to shake. Again, this was her character. I don't know about any of the off the show publicity, but I have noticed that many times when a female actress gets a little power she must be "taken down a notch" in the press for petty things that would only be chalked up to assertiveness had a male actor done the same thing. Just my 2 cents.
	__________________ Holly

02-25-2012, 04:25 PM	#7
Retro4Life Accept No Substitutes Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 04, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 6,708	Another thing to consider is that while Mary Ann is probably the more popular character of the two, there wasn't really much depth to her. Nothing against Dawn Wells, who by all accounts is an absolute dream, and could only do so much with the scripts that were given to her, but for the most part Mary Ann was "nice". That's about it; nice. She looked great and was a bit naive but really didn't have a lot of dimension and Ginger did have a "bit" of dimension, via her seducing and crying jags and manipulation of men. So it's easy to like a character who really never does anything wrong or controversial, while those that do show a bit of depth like Ginger or Mr. Howell, get dumped on a bit. I do think that Louise's attitude toward the show probably also greatly contributes to the feeling about Ginger, whether fairly or not.
	__________________ Alex Reiger :[Trying to convince Louie not to antagonize Bobby] "It's not hard to make people feel bad about their lives. What's hard is making people feel good about their lives."

02-25-2012, 11:25 AM	#5
Teebs Dusty nut Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 30, 2011 Location: Are we there yet? Posts: 454	I agree with everyone who thinks the dislike of Ginger stems from the 'dislike' of Tina. But it shouldn't, because despite what went on behind the scenes, it didn't rub off on her portrayal of the character. Ginger starts out as a femme fatale and gradually progresses to a team player. She's never a complete b*tch. And her seductions nearly always fail anyway, no matter who she tries it on with, which is not only funny, but makes me sympathise with her. I love when she breaks the fourth wall and shrugs at the camera, or swans off rolling her eyes because Gilligan has outsmarted her. Tina should have embraced GI. It didn't ruin her career, it brought her into the spotlight. But I'm sad, as a GI fan, that her off-screen antics clouded the way Ginger was received. Because as much as I love Mary Ann, there are times when I think that Ginger actually shows more vulnerability. THERE. I've said it.

02-25-2012, 06:47 PM	#8
JWood201 TV Nerd Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 25, 2001 Posts: 798	I think there's a certain amount of depth to all the characters if you look hard enough. Yes, some more than others. Admittedly, I didn't like Ginger when I was younger, either. I thought she was "gross." But, hey, I was seven and people always called me Ginger (thank god it didn't make me hate being a redhead) and I would always react like, "What? Ew! No!" But being older I understand her more and I see the different facets to her character and I think she's fascinating. I think she's one of the more psychologically interesting characters on the show, which is probably partly a credit to Tina's skill that she laments that she never got to use. I don't know whether or not Tina's "reputation" had anything to do with people disliking her, but at the time I didn't know anything about any off-screen business, so it didn't affect my opinion. It does make me sad that she was so against the show, though. I understand where she was coming from with her frustration, but who knows if she would have had a big career without it anyway. The show brought her international recognition. If you don't want to be associated with something, don't sign on to do it and then don't be cranky about it after the fact. I've always liked Mary Ann more anyway, regardless of any real life business. When I was little I wanted her to be my friend or my big sister and then I wanted to be her. I still kinda do. Although these days I want to be like Dawn - she's awesome and more hilariously inappropriate than Mary Ann, haha.

02-27-2012, 06:59 AM	#10
Teebs Dusty nut Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 30, 2011 Location: Are we there yet? Posts: 454	See, I didn't grow up with GI, (although I do have very vague memories of it from long ago). I only started watching it 18 months ago, and I was told about Tina Louise not liking the show almost immediately, so it did have a smal effect on how I saw Ginger. I was kind of disappointed to hear that one of the cast members wasn't happy, because GI is such a happy show. Oh, I know these were 'real people' and their working days would not have been all sparkly sunshine from morning to night, just because they were creating a show that was sunny and sweet. But Tina did such a good job with Ginger that I wonder if her performance might have been EVEN BETTER had she fully embraced the role the way the others embraced theirs. I dunno. I like Ginger, and I like Mary Ann. But Mary Ann's full potential wasn't realised either. Once she started putting her hands on her hips and rolling her eyes in disapproval at everyone, she lost some of her girlish charm- for me, anyway. Perhaps it was because she had given up trying to get Gilligan's attention and was turning into an old maid before her time, haha. (JWood201, I'm kidding. I'll ship MAG until the day I die.)

02-27-2012, 10:59 AM	#11
JWood201 TV Nerd Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 25, 2001 Posts: 798	Ginger absolutely served a purpose. Why would they waste their time writing a character and paying an actress for a character that served no purpose? Her purpose, at least at the beginning, was to be Mary Ann's foil, Howell's accomplice, and Proffy's potential love interest / lab assistant. She routinely had good ideas that helped the cause of the week, sometimes her seductions of the guests worked (for a second, until they called her out on it). It may not always seem like a character is doing much, but structurally, from a writing standpoint, everyone is necessary. Try taking her out of certain episodes. Although, I admit that the girls do absolutely nothing sometimes, but that's a logical and structural decision as well. Without Ginger, certain episodes just don't work. It's like on GLEE. Sue Sylvester is a main character, is very important, and serves an important function. Yet she is not in every single episode.

02-27-2012, 04:09 PM	#13
JWood201 TV Nerd Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 25, 2001 Posts: 798	No, you're right, everyone was in every episode. Because they're on an island, it'd be impossible to have an episode without someone. But the point I was making is that everyone has a function and even though they're not necessary to individual episodes all the time, they're necessary to the whole. There are certain episodes where MA and Ginger barely show up.

02-27-2012, 04:15 PM	#14
Teebs Dusty nut Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 30, 2011 Location: Are we there yet? Posts: 454	I always find it funny that even though Ginger is the vamp and the femme fatale, her seduction techniques never work on anyone. Except I think the robot blew a gasket... She was always quite good humoured about it, though!

02-28-2012, 07:57 PM	#15
bliss THAT GIRL Senior Member Join Date: Apr 26, 2009 Posts: 1,000	Ginger/Tina was my favorite character on the show! She was beautiful, glamourous, and funny at the same time. She had the look of sexy movie stars Marilyn Monroe & Jayne Mansfield. I wished the producers paid the amount Tina demanded so at least fans can see her in one of the reunion TV movies. It would've been a REAL reunion with all the castaways.