Anyone recall this episode of the Honeymooners - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

BillMac · 12-01-2011, 12:54 PM

This was a 'Lost Episode'. The scene has Ralph, Norton and Alice in the Kramden apartment talking around the table. Ralph goes into the bedroom for something, Alice and Ed keep talking then realize Ralph should of been back by now and Alice goes into the bedroom to get Ralph. She doesn't come back either. Norton is sitting there alone looks into the bedroom a few times wondering what's going on. Then he gets up walks over to the icebox and takes out an orange, brings it back to the table and starts to peel it. Audience started to laugh watching Ed peel an orange. This wasn't part of the script.
I do not recall any other part of the episode since the missed cue was so memorable.
This missed cue was also mentioned in the book 'The Honeymooners Companion' with no episode title.
Does any one recall or heard about this scene ? If so, name of the episode ?
I did see this episode on Showtime in 1985.

Bill S. · 12-02-2011, 02:59 PM

Are you sure you saw that exact scene on Showtime? I know the Lost Episodes very well, and I don't remember seeing that. I've gone through many shows looking for that scene and the scene where Carney had to come in through the window, but haven't found them. The Lost Episodes box set that came out in October contains all the sketches that aired on Showtime and much more. If you picked that up, hopefully you'll eventually come across the episode that you THINK that scene occurred in. Remember, just because Carney had an orange in his hand doesn't mean it's the scene mentioned in that book.

BillMac · 12-02-2011, 05:42 PM

Thanks for your reply. If I didn't see that scene on Showtime I can't recall where I did see it. You say that you know the 'Lost Episodes' and don't remember seeing that scene. Did you see the 'Lost Episodes' on Showtime ? Or are you refering the ones that came out on VHS and DVD at the time ? Not all Showtime episodes were on VHS.
I did purchase the complete 'Lost Episodes' and did not find the episode I am mentioning. That is why I am asking if any one knows about it. It could be possible that the scene with the orange was deleted from an episode for time. Maybe MPI is holding out for a later release.
The scene with Norton holding an orange is what the book is mentioning as I am also as per my above message. It's not what I THINK, it's what I know.

Bill S. · 12-02-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillMac

Thanks for your reply. If I didn't see that scene on Showtime I can't recall where I did see it. You say that you know the 'Lost Episodes' and don't remember seeing that scene. Did you see the 'Lost Episodes' on Showtime ? Or are you refering the ones that came out on VHS and DVD at the time ? Not all Showtime episodes were on VHS.

I didn't see the Lost Episodes during the original Showtime run, but I know that they aired 70 sketches starting in 1985, all of which were eventually released on VHS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillMac

I did purchase the complete 'Lost Episodes' and did not find the episode I am mentioning. That is why I am asking if any one knows about it. It could be possible that the scene with the orange was deleted from an episode for time. Maybe MPI is holding out for a later release.

The set was advertised as "the most complete collection possible," so I seriously doubt that they would knowingly hold a single scene back for a future release. Based on what I know, if the scene mentioned in the book can't be found in the set, then it hasn't been found yet, and if the scene you remember seeing isn't in the set, then it wasn't from one of the Lost Episodes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillMac

The scene with Norton holding an orange is what the book is mentioning as I am also as per my above message. It's not what I THINK, it's what I know.

Can you describe exactly what you remember seeing, without any of the information you got from the book? Did you actually see Gleason and Audrey Meadows go into the bedroom one by one, followed by Carney going to the ice box and peeling an orange, or do you just remember Carney taking something out of the ice box and peeling it? If the scene you remember seeing was shown on TV at some point in the 80s, then it shouldn't be hard to find.

BillMac · 12-03-2011, 01:24 PM

If is not a Lost Episode then there are not many choices it could be. Definately not a Claasic 39. It is a Lost Episode.
What I explained about the episode is all I can remember seeing. I am researching for any info I can find.

ChrisTV · 12-04-2011, 02:57 AM

BillMac -

I do remember reading about this, but never remember seeing it.
I have watched & taken very detailed notes on all 107 episodes on the new disc set for a "notes" section that I will be updating on the Honeymooners TV.com page & there are no edits that this would seem to come from.

Bill S.

I rewatched the 50th Anniv celebration from Larry King & Mike Douglas was talking about 1 of his favorite moments when Norton couldn't go thru the door & had to go thru a window.

Do you remember that?

Puzzling!!

BillMac · 12-04-2011, 12:58 PM

Only a few know about this scene. If they hadn't read read it then they must of saw it ??? No one has yet mentioned a title for this episode. That would be something to go on.
In the Honeymooners Companion book, Kenneth Whelan[associate producer] and Eddie Brinkman[stage manager] are describing the missed cue of Ralph leaving and not coming back right away and Ed peeling the orange.

I have heard about Ed coming thru the window and also other people mentioning this scene. I can't recall if I ever saw it. Do you know anything about the episode ? An episode title ?

Bill S. · 12-04-2011, 09:17 PM

Mike Douglas's comment about his favorite episode being the one in which Carney came in through the window has bugged me for years. He even went as far as to say, "I'm glad they didn't change that," which makes it seem like it's a well-known episode. My guess is he saw an episode where Carney was out on the fire escape and assumed that was the episode everyone was talking about. It's too bad Mr. Douglas is no longer around to clarify his comments.

I, like Chris, have watched every episode closely, looking for both the orange scene and the window scene, but I don't remember seeing either of them. There are a couple shows I'm going to watch over just to be sure, but I'm pretty sure both episodes are still missing. The window incident must have occurred during one of the five missing Audrey Meadows sketches because she mentioned it in her autobiography, but I don't remember if Audrey is mentioned in the orange story, which leaves open the possibility that it might have happened during the Pert Kelton years. All stories seem to have been told by people that were on set while the show was going on live, so it doesn't necessarily mean the episodes in question were ever rebroadcast.

ChrisTV · 12-05-2011, 01:29 AM

I went back and checked the Dumont shows, the 2 American Scene shows, Women's Lib, the 4 ABC 70's specials & every special that had Gleason / Honeymooners footage & neither of these appear. I've watched the Color shows recently & don't remember them there.

Wonder if the both these instances could have been in other Gleason sketches other than Honeymooners?

BillMac · 12-05-2011, 12:47 PM

Mike Douglas's reply would have several options on how he saw that episode. 1. When it was on tv in the 1950's. 2. Re broadcast on Showtime or TV Land ?? 3. In a remake episode, as per his comment- "I'm glad they didn't change anything".
Is it possible that the two scenes were shown on a 'Honeymooners' Anniversary special ?

The orange peeling scene is Audrey Meadows. The people that mention it has Audrey in it and what I seen was Audrey.

BillMac · 12-05-2011, 01:05 PM

If Ralph, Alice and Ed are in the scenes what could they of called it other than the Honeymooners.

The Christmas Party episode that had Frankie Avalon in it was shown on Showtime but was not on VHS. Is this correct or did I miss that tape ?

Bill S. · 12-05-2011, 11:24 PM

I just went back and read the missed cue story in the book, and it did occur during a Honeymooners sketch with Audrey Meadows. In the story, Kenneth Whelan says, "that's the only cue I remember Gleason missing during the two years I worked on the show." That narrows it down to the first two seasons of The Jackie Gleason Show. Since I'm 99% sure that scene cannot be found on the box set, and there's only three known sketches missing from that time period, I think it's safe to say that it occurred during one of those. I believe the window incident occurred during one of those three as well.

Being that those three sketches are still considered lost, I find it strange that Mike Douglas claimed to have seen the window incident and BillMac here believes he's seen the orange incident. I've written Mike Douglas's claim off as a case of mistaken identity, as there were several episodes where Carney could be seen out on the fire escape, but I'd really like to find the scene BillMac is referring to. There are a number of sketches that were rebroadcast in some way, shape or form, but not officially released until this year, so I guess it's possible that footage from a supposedly still lost sketch could have made it's way into some kind of Gleason or Honeymooners special over the years. Showtime aired a series of 26 half-hour episodes in the 80s called "Gleason: He's the Greatest." I haven't seen every episode, but is it possible that you may have seen this footage in one of those episodes, BillMac?

BillMac · 12-06-2011, 12:46 PM

Can't say for sure on what show I saw the orange peeling. Just a sketch or an episode. If Showtime showed just the sketch then the episode is there and not really lost. If the sketch was the only part of the film that was salvageable then it would have been stated through the years that the film was no good and lost forever and this sketch is all that remains.

Thinking about Mike Douglas's comment about Norton couldn't go through the door but had to go through the window.
I recall seeing something that might be what Mike Douglas is referring to.
I am not saying this was a Lost Episode, or even a Miami Honeymooners or a Gleason & Carney skit. Might of been a different comedy team.
Here is the scenario. Will use the Honeymooners as the example.
Ralph and Alice had a fight and Ralph states that Alice will have her half of the apartment and Ralph will have his half. The next scene has these white lines painted all over the apartment one side is Alice's and the other side is Ralph's. Ralph's side has the window. This would explain why as Mike Douglas said Norton couldn't use the door and had to go through the window to visit Ralph.
What episodes do you know of that had Norton on the fire escape ? That was funny.

The Great One · 12-06-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillMac

This was a 'Lost Episode'. The scene has Ralph, Norton and Alice in the Kramden apartment talking around the table. Ralph goes into the bedroom for something, Alice and Ed keep talking then realize Ralph should of been back by now and Alice goes into the bedroom to get Ralph. She doesn't come back either. Norton is sitting there alone looks into the bedroom a few times wondering what's going on. Then he gets up walks over to the icebox and takes out an orange, brings it back to the table and starts to peel it. Audience started to laugh watching Ed peel an orange. This wasn't part of the script.
I do not recall any other part of the episode since the missed cue was so memorable.
This missed cue was also mentioned in the book 'The Honeymooners Companion' with no episode title.
Does any one recall or heard about this scene ? If so, name of the episode ?
I did see this episode on Showtime in 1985.

I remember seeing the scene you're talking about sometime in the late 80s and if I recall correctly it was part of a Honeymooners special that showed video clips that dealt with each characters personality and how their comedic uniqueness added to the show.

ChrisTV · 12-07-2011, 06:57 AM

Regarding the "Orange Peeling" scene... Yes, one would think that this scene would appear on a special in a batch with other goofs.

I have spent quite a few hours over the past week looking through everything I own & I found no orange peeling or of Norton going through a window. Here is what I went through....

The Honeymooners Reunion: 5/13/85
Honeymooners Anniviversary Celebration: 10/18/85
Season's Greeting From The Honeymooners: 11/30/85
The Great Gleason: 10/21/87
The Best of Gleason: 6/8/88
The Best of Gleason 2: 7/31/88
The Great One: 9/10/88
Gleason: He's The Greatest: 11/30/88
The Best of Gleason 3: 2/28/89 -
The Honeymooners Anniversary Special: 11/12/90
The Really Lost Debut Episodes/Christmas (Disney): 10/30/93 & 12/12/93
Jackie Gleason's Cavalcade of Characters: 3/30/94
My Man Norton: DVD special: 12/15/94
TV Land - Inside Honeymooners: 3/15/00
50th Anniversary (CBS): 5/6/02
A & E TVography: Jackie Gleason: 7/22/02
Jackie Gleason: Genius At Work: 3/1/06

A couple of things I do not have that others may want to go through...
The "Honeybloopers" 11/29/89 VHS or
believe it or not what about The Honeymooners VCR Game?
Could it possibly be on there?
Anyone have either of these?

Now, some interesting things I did find while going through everything...

1) On the "A & E TVography: Jackie Gleason" 7/22/02...
35 seconds of "Alice And Ralph Get Dressed For A Date Last Night" the 11/30/51 "Gleason Cavalcade" sketch airs on this special.
Funny... on the new DVD Honeymooners set featurette they state that this sketch was recently found in the gleason archives. This is obviously false!

And...

2) On "The Great One": 9/10/88 hosted by John Candy @ 8:17 (for 15 secs) after the Nixon & Jackie Golf clip there is a scene from the 50's JGS w/ George Petrie as a doctor giving Gleason a shot (Gleason acts like Ralph). But I have no clue what this is from - and another mystery...

Anyone?

12-01-2011, 12:54 PM	#1
BillMac Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 01, 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 27	Anyone recall this episode of the Honeymooners This was a 'Lost Episode'. The scene has Ralph, Norton and Alice in the Kramden apartment talking around the table. Ralph goes into the bedroom for something, Alice and Ed keep talking then realize Ralph should of been back by now and Alice goes into the bedroom to get Ralph. She doesn't come back either. Norton is sitting there alone looks into the bedroom a few times wondering what's going on. Then he gets up walks over to the icebox and takes out an orange, brings it back to the table and starts to peel it. Audience started to laugh watching Ed peel an orange. This wasn't part of the script. I do not recall any other part of the episode since the missed cue was so memorable. This missed cue was also mentioned in the book 'The Honeymooners Companion' with no episode title. Does any one recall or heard about this scene ? If so, name of the episode ? I did see this episode on Showtime in 1985.

12-02-2011, 02:59 PM	#2
Bill S. Member Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2003 Posts: 1,112	Are you sure you saw that exact scene on Showtime? I know the Lost Episodes very well, and I don't remember seeing that. I've gone through many shows looking for that scene and the scene where Carney had to come in through the window, but haven't found them. The Lost Episodes box set that came out in October contains all the sketches that aired on Showtime and much more. If you picked that up, hopefully you'll eventually come across the episode that you THINK that scene occurred in. Remember, just because Carney had an orange in his hand doesn't mean it's the scene mentioned in that book.

12-02-2011, 05:42 PM	#3
BillMac Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 01, 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 27	Thanks for your reply. If I didn't see that scene on Showtime I can't recall where I did see it. You say that you know the 'Lost Episodes' and don't remember seeing that scene. Did you see the 'Lost Episodes' on Showtime ? Or are you refering the ones that came out on VHS and DVD at the time ? Not all Showtime episodes were on VHS. I did purchase the complete 'Lost Episodes' and did not find the episode I am mentioning. That is why I am asking if any one knows about it. It could be possible that the scene with the orange was deleted from an episode for time. Maybe MPI is holding out for a later release. The scene with Norton holding an orange is what the book is mentioning as I am also as per my above message. It's not what I THINK, it's what I know.

12-03-2011, 01:24 PM	#5
BillMac Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 01, 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 27	If is not a Lost Episode then there are not many choices it could be. Definately not a Claasic 39. It is a Lost Episode. What I explained about the episode is all I can remember seeing. I am researching for any info I can find.

12-04-2011, 02:57 AM	#6
ChrisTV Member Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 773	BillMac - I do remember reading about this, but never remember seeing it. I have watched & taken very detailed notes on all 107 episodes on the new disc set for a "notes" section that I will be updating on the Honeymooners TV.com page & there are no edits that this would seem to come from. Bill S. I rewatched the 50th Anniv celebration from Larry King & Mike Douglas was talking about 1 of his favorite moments when Norton couldn't go thru the door & had to go thru a window. Do you remember that? Puzzling!!

12-04-2011, 12:58 PM	#7
BillMac Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 01, 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 27	Only a few know about this scene. If they hadn't read read it then they must of saw it ??? No one has yet mentioned a title for this episode. That would be something to go on. In the Honeymooners Companion book, Kenneth Whelan[associate producer] and Eddie Brinkman[stage manager] are describing the missed cue of Ralph leaving and not coming back right away and Ed peeling the orange. I have heard about Ed coming thru the window and also other people mentioning this scene. I can't recall if I ever saw it. Do you know anything about the episode ? An episode title ?

12-04-2011, 09:17 PM	#8
Bill S. Member Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2003 Posts: 1,112	Mike Douglas's comment about his favorite episode being the one in which Carney came in through the window has bugged me for years. He even went as far as to say, "I'm glad they didn't change that," which makes it seem like it's a well-known episode. My guess is he saw an episode where Carney was out on the fire escape and assumed that was the episode everyone was talking about. It's too bad Mr. Douglas is no longer around to clarify his comments. I, like Chris, have watched every episode closely, looking for both the orange scene and the window scene, but I don't remember seeing either of them. There are a couple shows I'm going to watch over just to be sure, but I'm pretty sure both episodes are still missing. The window incident must have occurred during one of the five missing Audrey Meadows sketches because she mentioned it in her autobiography, but I don't remember if Audrey is mentioned in the orange story, which leaves open the possibility that it might have happened during the Pert Kelton years. All stories seem to have been told by people that were on set while the show was going on live, so it doesn't necessarily mean the episodes in question were ever rebroadcast.

12-05-2011, 01:29 AM	#9
ChrisTV Member Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 773	I went back and checked the Dumont shows, the 2 American Scene shows, Women's Lib, the 4 ABC 70's specials & every special that had Gleason / Honeymooners footage & neither of these appear. I've watched the Color shows recently & don't remember them there. Wonder if the both these instances could have been in other Gleason sketches other than Honeymooners?

12-05-2011, 12:47 PM	#10
BillMac Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 01, 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 27	Mike Douglas's reply would have several options on how he saw that episode. 1. When it was on tv in the 1950's. 2. Re broadcast on Showtime or TV Land ?? 3. In a remake episode, as per his comment- "I'm glad they didn't change anything". Is it possible that the two scenes were shown on a 'Honeymooners' Anniversary special ? The orange peeling scene is Audrey Meadows. The people that mention it has Audrey in it and what I seen was Audrey.

12-05-2011, 01:05 PM	#11
BillMac Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 01, 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 27	If Ralph, Alice and Ed are in the scenes what could they of called it other than the Honeymooners. The Christmas Party episode that had Frankie Avalon in it was shown on Showtime but was not on VHS. Is this correct or did I miss that tape ?

12-05-2011, 11:24 PM	#12
Bill S. Member Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2003 Posts: 1,112	I just went back and read the missed cue story in the book, and it did occur during a Honeymooners sketch with Audrey Meadows. In the story, Kenneth Whelan says, "that's the only cue I remember Gleason missing during the two years I worked on the show." That narrows it down to the first two seasons of The Jackie Gleason Show. Since I'm 99% sure that scene cannot be found on the box set, and there's only three known sketches missing from that time period, I think it's safe to say that it occurred during one of those. I believe the window incident occurred during one of those three as well. Being that those three sketches are still considered lost, I find it strange that Mike Douglas claimed to have seen the window incident and BillMac here believes he's seen the orange incident. I've written Mike Douglas's claim off as a case of mistaken identity, as there were several episodes where Carney could be seen out on the fire escape, but I'd really like to find the scene BillMac is referring to. There are a number of sketches that were rebroadcast in some way, shape or form, but not officially released until this year, so I guess it's possible that footage from a supposedly still lost sketch could have made it's way into some kind of Gleason or Honeymooners special over the years. Showtime aired a series of 26 half-hour episodes in the 80s called "Gleason: He's the Greatest." I haven't seen every episode, but is it possible that you may have seen this footage in one of those episodes, BillMac?

12-06-2011, 12:46 PM	#13
BillMac Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 01, 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 27	Can't say for sure on what show I saw the orange peeling. Just a sketch or an episode. If Showtime showed just the sketch then the episode is there and not really lost. If the sketch was the only part of the film that was salvageable then it would have been stated through the years that the film was no good and lost forever and this sketch is all that remains. Thinking about Mike Douglas's comment about Norton couldn't go through the door but had to go through the window. I recall seeing something that might be what Mike Douglas is referring to. I am not saying this was a Lost Episode, or even a Miami Honeymooners or a Gleason & Carney skit. Might of been a different comedy team. Here is the scenario. Will use the Honeymooners as the example. Ralph and Alice had a fight and Ralph states that Alice will have her half of the apartment and Ralph will have his half. The next scene has these white lines painted all over the apartment one side is Alice's and the other side is Ralph's. Ralph's side has the window. This would explain why as Mike Douglas said Norton couldn't use the door and had to go through the window to visit Ralph. What episodes do you know of that had Norton on the fire escape ? That was funny.

12-07-2011, 06:57 AM	#15
ChrisTV Member Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 773	Regarding the "Orange Peeling" scene... Yes, one would think that this scene would appear on a special in a batch with other goofs. I have spent quite a few hours over the past week looking through everything I own & I found no orange peeling or of Norton going through a window. Here is what I went through.... The Honeymooners Reunion: 5/13/85 Honeymooners Anniviversary Celebration: 10/18/85 Season's Greeting From The Honeymooners: 11/30/85 The Great Gleason: 10/21/87 The Best of Gleason: 6/8/88 The Best of Gleason 2: 7/31/88 The Great One: 9/10/88 Gleason: He's The Greatest: 11/30/88 The Best of Gleason 3: 2/28/89 - The Honeymooners Anniversary Special: 11/12/90 The Really Lost Debut Episodes/Christmas (Disney): 10/30/93 & 12/12/93 Jackie Gleason's Cavalcade of Characters: 3/30/94 My Man Norton: DVD special: 12/15/94 TV Land - Inside Honeymooners: 3/15/00 50th Anniversary (CBS): 5/6/02 A & E TVography: Jackie Gleason: 7/22/02 Jackie Gleason: Genius At Work: 3/1/06 A couple of things I do not have that others may want to go through... The "Honeybloopers" 11/29/89 VHS or believe it or not what about The Honeymooners VCR Game? Could it possibly be on there? Anyone have either of these? Now, some interesting things I did find while going through everything... 1) On the "A & E TVography: Jackie Gleason" 7/22/02... 35 seconds of "Alice And Ralph Get Dressed For A Date Last Night" the 11/30/51 "Gleason Cavalcade" sketch airs on this special. Funny... on the new DVD Honeymooners set featurette they state that this sketch was recently found in the gleason archives. This is obviously false! And... 2) On "The Great One": 9/10/88 hosted by John Candy @ 8:17 (for 15 secs) after the Nixon & Jackie Golf clip there is a scene from the 50's JGS w/ George Petrie as a doctor giving Gleason a shot (Gleason acts like Ralph). But I have no clue what this is from - and another mystery... Anyone?