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TV Guy · 01-15-2002, 02:08 PM

Anyone watch the finale last night? I watched it again, probably the first time I've seen it in eight years. And I think I dislike it even more now that I'm watching without all the hype that accompanied it originally. Here's why I didn't like it:

1. The obvious: Sam and Diane didn't end up together. Why was she even brought back if they were going to end it like this? The whole "Sam's true love is the bar, not Diane" idea was completely untrue to the original, romantic-comedy premise of the show.

2. Shelley Long. Shelley's performance was mannered and forced, not at all like the wonderful work she did when she was a regular. She was obviously nervous during filming, and unfortunately, that came through.

3. Nobody likes Diane. OK, we knew Carla would hate seeing Diane again, but why didn't anyone else act like they were happy to see her? By the time she left originally, it was clear that she had become "one of the gang". But in this episode, everyone seemed very cold toward her.

4. Rebecca. Compare the hard-nosed executive-type we saw during the sixth season to the blubbering idiot last night. The devolution of Rebecca was incredible, and the way she acted in the last episode was clearly Rebecca at her worst. Did she say or do one intelligent thing in the finale?

5. Lilith's absence. Frasier and Lilith had reconciled a few months before the final episode (albeit temporarily). I wonder why Bebe Neuwirth didn't return for the finale. I'm curious if she was even asked. Or maybe she saw the script and decided to avoid it.

6. Councilman Woody. Blatantly ridiculous. And Woody's wife Kelly rivals Cliff's girlfriend Margaret as one of the worst recurring characters of the series. Unfunny.

7. The last scene, where everyone sat around contemplating the meaning of life. Was this part ad-libbed? Were there any funny lines during this scene? Contemplating the meaning of life was never the point of "Cheers".

The sad thing is, this episode was written by the Charles brothers, who created the series. I don't understand how they could have gotten it so wrong.

snowpeck · 01-15-2002, 04:40 PM

I thought it was very poignant (I too hadn't seen it since 1993) and very well done. Sure it was originally a romantic comedy, but the moment Shelley Long left, that changed much. And people do change and mature. As for their coldness toward Diane, its probably because she had been gone for so long. After all she said she would only be gone for 6 months and it turned out to be 6 years. That kinda thing tends to make people mad at you. And as much as Sam and Diane loved each other, if they had been married they would have eventually killed each other, or at least got divorced, so really I feel that it was never meant to be.

In all I think it was a very fitting finale.

sammyanddiane · 01-15-2002, 05:48 PM

I MUST DECLINE RESPECTFULY,I liked the shows final somewhat,I have to agree with you tvguy,the final was allright,but not nearly as good as it could have been,considering it was from the charles brothers it should have been better,Maybe if sam and diane had married it would have been that good,but that was defintilya huge part of what cheers was about a romantic comedy even after diane left it was still about the same thing,even the charles brothers said that it was,CHEERS was and always will be a romantic comedy at it,s heart,so it would have been nice if it would have stayed more close to the origanal show,and diane was not quit her old self as she was in the show as a regular which i really missed,so carla always hated diane,but did they still have to make her the but of the jokes,Since diane was away for alot of the remainder of the show,I can see how they might have been mad,but no hated her execpt for carla and I really doubt that they would have just forgot her or treated her how they did,If diane came back i,m sure they wouldn,t have been glad she left,they would have been alot kinder to her and the thing that really bothers me is that they say that SAMS TRUE LOVE WAS THE BAR,WE ALL KNOW HIS TRUE LOVE WAS DIANE,I know thats not the only thing,but even if they hadn,t gotten together,Sams true love would always be diane,but the very end i thought was really classy and memorable way to show cheers end,CHEERS WAS STILL AND ALWAYS WILL BE A GREAT SHOW in my opionion,The final minutes were really good

AKA · 01-15-2002, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TV Guy
6. Councilman Woody. Blatantly ridiculous.

I love how there was no mention of this when Woody visited Frasier a season or two ago. They just pretended like it didn't happen at all.

danithang · 01-15-2002, 09:48 PM

I've seen the last episode last night too. I have to say if Sam and Diane would have gotten together it wouldn't have lasted too long because they were too different. And the thing about Sam and his only true love was the bar I think that was a great ending, because it was made clear in that episode that Sam wasn't in love with Diane he just didn't want to be alone. Sam was just the type of man that you couldn't tie down and I'm glad they kept it that way.

Tiger32 · 01-18-2002, 07:54 PM

I know the romantic side of everyone would have loved to see Sam and Diane get married. But let's face it, after all of those years apart, the love was bound to die out. It also would have been unrealistic for these two to end up together, particularly if they could not work it out in the 6 years in which she was working at the bar. I think the writers must have considered this when they were writing the final episode. Very seldom does art imitate life, but in this particular case I have to agree with the writers for not putting them together, because it would have been totally unrealistic. Diane was Sam's ex-girlfriend for a reason, and very seldom does one return to their ex in real life, unless they are a glutton for punishment.

gettoknowsomeone · 01-19-2002, 12:33 AM

I missed this week's showing of the finale, so I am relying on memory here. I totally agreed with your points. I too felt disappointed with the ending..the story was very disjointed. Shelley Long's acting was atrocious; it did not seem like Diane Chambers was returning, it felt more like a stranger.

Though very disappointed, I did like the very last scene where Sam was surveying the empty bar; turning away the patron at the door; and (this I love) the straighting out the picture of the Indian (?) on the wall. I heard somewhere this was a salute to Coach; if so, I loved that..seemed like he was all but forgotten in the last seasons. Does anyone know if this is true and if so, how is the picture connected to Coach?

AKA · 01-19-2002, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gettoknowsomeone
Though very disappointed, I did like the very last scene where Sam was surveying the empty bar; turning away the patron at the door; and (this I love) the straighting out the picture of the Indian (?) on the wall. I heard somewhere this was a salute to Coach; if so, I loved that..seemed like he was all but forgotten in the last seasons. Does anyone know if this is true and if so, how is the picture connected to Coach?

It was Nick Colasanto's favorite picture. It was hanging in his dressing room, and when he died, they were cleaning his it out and decided to hang it on the set as a tribute.

Mcfly · 01-20-2002, 01:27 AM

Right on, TVguy. I, too, was extremely disappointed back in '93. I was a junior in high school and the next day everyone was like "That was it??". Only had a few laughs, and the ending seemed totally unfinished. They'll just come back to the bar tomorrow and do it all over again. Blah.

It would be armeggedon if Councilman Woody isn't eventually discovered to be a dolt. Plus, a public official working part time IN A BAR?? Not the most professional image being conveyed.

I know Newirth left midway thru the season to return to the stage. Perhaps this is what kept her away.

Long did seem lost in her performance. Maybe so long away from the character and returning to a place where she was loathed (in real life) put her off kilter. The E! Story and a TV Guide from '93 said the cast was cold to her during taping (filming) and some didn't go to her during the curtain call. But it would have been the nice if the producers had permitted the audience one of those "Married With Children" type ovations when she came thru the door. How many times have you seen a star return to a show and get no applause?

cheers freak · 01-20-2002, 09:31 AM

I disagree with what all of you said. I thought the last episode was brilliant. I still cry during the last scene. It was a very classy end to a very classy show in my opinion. "SORRY WERE CLOSED!" That line is when it really hit that this was the last episode.

sammyanddiane · 01-25-2002, 06:45 PM

I AGREE WITH YA ON THE VERY LAST SCENE,the very last line of the show saying SORRY WERE CLOSED

sammyanddiane · 01-25-2002, 06:48 PM

AND THE SILENCE OF IT ALL and hanging nicholes colosantos picture was definitly a REALLY REALLY CLASSY ENDING FOR A VERY CLASSY SHOW right on there,

gettoknowsomeone · 01-26-2002, 06:41 PM

Except for the last scene, I think it was very badly written episode, very unfitting to end a great show like Cheers. Now, as I said, I did not see the recent showing, so I have to go on what I remember 8 or 9 years ago. I think what happened what that the gang saw Diane Chambers win an award show on TV; and then Sam and Diane talked on the telephone (I dont remember who called who first), fibbed that each were in a marriage to impress the other; when caught in the lie, decided to marry, but had seconds thought on the plane, and the show ended. Even for a sitcom, it seemed like a stretch that out of nowhere, they meet up again and decide to get married. I think it would have been better had they met in a chance encounter (maybe Sam could have been catering the award show and didnt know Diane was there until she won?), had a big fight, and then (as often the case) start smooching. Then they would consider whether to restart the relationship (forget marriage, i think that is too much of a stretch after not seeing each other for 6 years!) And why would Frasier still be hung up over Diane? At this point, he is married to Lilith and have a child. Its as if Lilith and Frederick didnt exist in this episode.

As far as the subplot involving Rebecca and the plumber, it gets worse! Rebecca, who in the episode comes across as a complete idiot, runs off with a plumber that she just met. It just all so phoney! She was with Robin Cocord in a plot line that lasted several seasons, and she ended up leaving Robin at the altar because she thought he was destitute. So now she marries a guy she just met. Doesnt make sense.

Everybody musing about life was also phony. Since when did Woody become a sage wise man? I think Woody (like others) came across like a different character.

Yes, I did like the last scene (as I mentioned ealier in the thread.) But the prevous 85 minutes or so really made for a bad episode. WIsh it had been better.

sammyanddiane · 01-26-2002, 08:01 PM

yeah i was also wishing that it would be better,it could have been alot better i think,but still think that the writers did try pretty hard at the story though,but just thinking how much better it really could have been oh well,but we still did have 11 wonderful years though even if it did a have quit a weak ending

sammyanddiane · 01-27-2002, 01:48 PM

my personal rating for this particular episode would probably be aobut 2.7 out of 5,but that is allright,but even that rating is being kind of easy i think,but because it had such a nice ending i am going to give it that,but thats not really that high,but it is a pass,so what would you rate that particular episode of cheers

01-15-2002, 02:08 PM	#1
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	One for the Road Anyone watch the finale last night? I watched it again, probably the first time I've seen it in eight years. And I think I dislike it even more now that I'm watching without all the hype that accompanied it originally. Here's why I didn't like it: 1. The obvious: Sam and Diane didn't end up together. Why was she even brought back if they were going to end it like this? The whole "Sam's true love is the bar, not Diane" idea was completely untrue to the original, romantic-comedy premise of the show. 2. Shelley Long. Shelley's performance was mannered and forced, not at all like the wonderful work she did when she was a regular. She was obviously nervous during filming, and unfortunately, that came through. 3. Nobody likes Diane. OK, we knew Carla would hate seeing Diane again, but why didn't anyone else act like they were happy to see her? By the time she left originally, it was clear that she had become "one of the gang". But in this episode, everyone seemed very cold toward her. 4. Rebecca. Compare the hard-nosed executive-type we saw during the sixth season to the blubbering idiot last night. The devolution of Rebecca was incredible, and the way she acted in the last episode was clearly Rebecca at her worst. Did she say or do one intelligent thing in the finale? 5. Lilith's absence. Frasier and Lilith had reconciled a few months before the final episode (albeit temporarily). I wonder why Bebe Neuwirth didn't return for the finale. I'm curious if she was even asked. Or maybe she saw the script and decided to avoid it. 6. Councilman Woody. Blatantly ridiculous. And Woody's wife Kelly rivals Cliff's girlfriend Margaret as one of the worst recurring characters of the series. Unfunny. 7. The last scene, where everyone sat around contemplating the meaning of life. Was this part ad-libbed? Were there any funny lines during this scene? Contemplating the meaning of life was never the point of "Cheers". The sad thing is, this episode was written by the Charles brothers, who created the series. I don't understand how they could have gotten it so wrong.

01-18-2002, 07:54 PM	#6
Tiger32 Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 14, 2002 Posts: 624	You hit it on the head Danithang! I know the romantic side of everyone would have loved to see Sam and Diane get married. But let's face it, after all of those years apart, the love was bound to die out. It also would have been unrealistic for these two to end up together, particularly if they could not work it out in the 6 years in which she was working at the bar. I think the writers must have considered this when they were writing the final episode. Very seldom does art imitate life, but in this particular case I have to agree with the writers for not putting them together, because it would have been totally unrealistic. Diane was Sam's ex-girlfriend for a reason, and very seldom does one return to their ex in real life, unless they are a glutton for punishment.
	Last edited by Tiger32; 01-18-2002 at 08:01 PM.

01-15-2002, 04:40 PM	#2
snowpeck Member Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 13, 2001 Location: Atlanta Posts: 759	I thought it was very poignant (I too hadn't seen it since 1993) and very well done. Sure it was originally a romantic comedy, but the moment Shelley Long left, that changed much. And people do change and mature. As for their coldness toward Diane, its probably because she had been gone for so long. After all she said she would only be gone for 6 months and it turned out to be 6 years. That kinda thing tends to make people mad at you. And as much as Sam and Diane loved each other, if they had been married they would have eventually killed each other, or at least got divorced, so really I feel that it was never meant to be. In all I think it was a very fitting finale.

01-15-2002, 05:48 PM	#3
sammyanddiane Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 28, 2001 Location: canada Posts: 427	I MUST DECLINE RESPECTFULY,I liked the shows final somewhat,I have to agree with you tvguy,the final was allright,but not nearly as good as it could have been,considering it was from the charles brothers it should have been better,Maybe if sam and diane had married it would have been that good,but that was defintilya huge part of what cheers was about a romantic comedy even after diane left it was still about the same thing,even the charles brothers said that it was,CHEERS was and always will be a romantic comedy at it,s heart,so it would have been nice if it would have stayed more close to the origanal show,and diane was not quit her old self as she was in the show as a regular which i really missed,so carla always hated diane,but did they still have to make her the but of the jokes,Since diane was away for alot of the remainder of the show,I can see how they might have been mad,but no hated her execpt for carla and I really doubt that they would have just forgot her or treated her how they did,If diane came back i,m sure they wouldn,t have been glad she left,they would have been alot kinder to her and the thing that really bothers me is that they say that SAMS TRUE LOVE WAS THE BAR,WE ALL KNOW HIS TRUE LOVE WAS DIANE,I know thats not the only thing,but even if they hadn,t gotten together,Sams true love would always be diane,but the very end i thought was really classy and memorable way to show cheers end,CHEERS WAS STILL AND ALWAYS WILL BE A GREAT SHOW in my opionion,The final minutes were really good

01-15-2002, 09:48 PM	#5
danithang Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 15, 2001 Location: Newport News, Va Posts: 293	I've seen the last episode last night too. I have to say if Sam and Diane would have gotten together it wouldn't have lasted too long because they were too different. And the thing about Sam and his only true love was the bar I think that was a great ending, because it was made clear in that episode that Sam wasn't in love with Diane he just didn't want to be alone. Sam was just the type of man that you couldn't tie down and I'm glad they kept it that way.

01-19-2002, 12:33 AM	#7
gettoknowsomeone Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 19, 2002 Posts: 54	I missed this week's showing of the finale, so I am relying on memory here. I totally agreed with your points. I too felt disappointed with the ending..the story was very disjointed. Shelley Long's acting was atrocious; it did not seem like Diane Chambers was returning, it felt more like a stranger. Though very disappointed, I did like the very last scene where Sam was surveying the empty bar; turning away the patron at the door; and (this I love) the straighting out the picture of the Indian (?) on the wall. I heard somewhere this was a salute to Coach; if so, I loved that..seemed like he was all but forgotten in the last seasons. Does anyone know if this is true and if so, how is the picture connected to Coach?

01-20-2002, 01:27 AM	#9
Mcfly Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 06, 2001 Location: ca Posts: 374	Right on, TVguy. I, too, was extremely disappointed back in '93. I was a junior in high school and the next day everyone was like "That was it??". Only had a few laughs, and the ending seemed totally unfinished. They'll just come back to the bar tomorrow and do it all over again. Blah. It would be armeggedon if Councilman Woody isn't eventually discovered to be a dolt. Plus, a public official working part time IN A BAR?? Not the most professional image being conveyed. I know Newirth left midway thru the season to return to the stage. Perhaps this is what kept her away. Long did seem lost in her performance. Maybe so long away from the character and returning to a place where she was loathed (in real life) put her off kilter. The E! Story and a TV Guide from '93 said the cast was cold to her during taping (filming) and some didn't go to her during the curtain call. But it would have been the nice if the producers had permitted the audience one of those "Married With Children" type ovations when she came thru the door. How many times have you seen a star return to a show and get no applause?

01-20-2002, 09:31 AM	#10
cheers freak Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 03, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 375	I disagree with what all of you said. I thought the last episode was brilliant. I still cry during the last scene. It was a very classy end to a very classy show in my opinion. "SORRY WERE CLOSED!" That line is when it really hit that this was the last episode.

01-25-2002, 06:45 PM	#11
sammyanddiane Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 28, 2001 Location: canada Posts: 427	I AGREE WITH YA ON THE VERY LAST SCENE,the very last line of the show saying SORRY WERE CLOSED

01-25-2002, 06:48 PM	#12
sammyanddiane Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 28, 2001 Location: canada Posts: 427	AND THE SILENCE OF IT ALL and hanging nicholes colosantos picture was definitly a REALLY REALLY CLASSY ENDING FOR A VERY CLASSY SHOW right on there,

01-26-2002, 06:41 PM	#13
gettoknowsomeone Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 19, 2002 Posts: 54	Except for the last scene, I think it was very badly written episode, very unfitting to end a great show like Cheers. Now, as I said, I did not see the recent showing, so I have to go on what I remember 8 or 9 years ago. I think what happened what that the gang saw Diane Chambers win an award show on TV; and then Sam and Diane talked on the telephone (I dont remember who called who first), fibbed that each were in a marriage to impress the other; when caught in the lie, decided to marry, but had seconds thought on the plane, and the show ended. Even for a sitcom, it seemed like a stretch that out of nowhere, they meet up again and decide to get married. I think it would have been better had they met in a chance encounter (maybe Sam could have been catering the award show and didnt know Diane was there until she won?), had a big fight, and then (as often the case) start smooching. Then they would consider whether to restart the relationship (forget marriage, i think that is too much of a stretch after not seeing each other for 6 years!) And why would Frasier still be hung up over Diane? At this point, he is married to Lilith and have a child. Its as if Lilith and Frederick didnt exist in this episode. As far as the subplot involving Rebecca and the plumber, it gets worse! Rebecca, who in the episode comes across as a complete idiot, runs off with a plumber that she just met. It just all so phoney! She was with Robin Cocord in a plot line that lasted several seasons, and she ended up leaving Robin at the altar because she thought he was destitute. So now she marries a guy she just met. Doesnt make sense. Everybody musing about life was also phony. Since when did Woody become a sage wise man? I think Woody (like others) came across like a different character. Yes, I did like the last scene (as I mentioned ealier in the thread.) But the prevous 85 minutes or so really made for a bad episode. WIsh it had been better.

01-26-2002, 08:01 PM	#14
sammyanddiane Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 28, 2001 Location: canada Posts: 427	yeah i was also wishing that it would be better,it could have been alot better i think,but still think that the writers did try pretty hard at the story though,but just thinking how much better it really could have been oh well,but we still did have 11 wonderful years though even if it did a have quit a weak ending

01-27-2002, 01:48 PM	#15
sammyanddiane Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 28, 2001 Location: canada Posts: 427	my personal rating for this particular episode would probably be aobut 2.7 out of 5,but that is allright,but even that rating is being kind of easy i think,but because it had such a nice ending i am going to give it that,but thats not really that high,but it is a pass,so what would you rate that particular episode of cheers