Angela Hammond's abductor: Some questions - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

CuriousMind90 · 09-21-2011, 08:01 PM

Re-watching the episode involving her on the site which shall not be named, it raised some questions.

When Rob had Angie offer the phone to the abductor, why didn't the abductor say "Sure"? THEORETICALLY speaking, this would've gotten Angie off the phone much quicker (as she might've let him use the phone) which would've allowed the abductor to take his prey that much quicker.

Think about it. As soon as she hangs up, she's his. She disappears into the night with little clue as to what ever happened to her. All Rob and anyone else would ever truly know is he hung up and never heard from her again. No real evidence that this creepo wearing overalls absconded with her: It'd just be a theory. "Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It's simply an eerie coincidence."

On the killer's end, taking her offer of the phone offers him up to her; As soon as she's off the phone, he can grab her anytime he wants. The person on the other end would ever have any clue (as far as he knows) about what happened. No possible chase. The police would've been contacted much later--Maybe even hours rather. This guy was taking some awful risks.

Maybe I'm just viewing this as a sane person and so don't have much insight into the mind of an abductor and presumable killer, but from all I've read, serial killers seem very methodical in their approach to their victims. Consider Bundy--Perfectly played the part of an injured man who needed help to lure his victims to him.

This guy either didn't seem to have planned out his actions in great detail (other than perhaps his escape route), or he just wasn't that bright and cunning, or this guy had cajones of steel and somehow KNEW he wouldn't be caught.

Or maybe he, in some bizarre way, wanted to flirt with the danger of being caught. This a guy who wants to take a risk. A guy who wants to hurt whoever she knows besides doing whatever he has in mind with her. Consider he even got on the phone to chillingly and coldheartedly add, "I didn't need to use the phone anyway."

Consider his whole series of actions:

1) Circles around the truck stop for a few minutes. Enough time for her to get in her car and leave. He's taking a risk here that his prey could simply get off the phone and leave while he's circling.
2) Parks NEXT to Angela's car. Not behind it or in any way which would block her exit if she tried to flee in it. Let's say he makes a sudden move and scares her--she could run to her car, get in and drive off. His truck isn't blocking her escape. How is he to know how trusting she might be?
3) Acts as if he's attempting to use the other pay phone, possibly leaving prints behind. (This could be to let Angela's guard down a little; he's just like her, needing to use the phone).
4) Waits around suspiciously and declines Angie's offer of her phone, which as said above would've given him more control over the situation.
5) Abducts Angie while she's still on the phone, meaning anyone she's on the phone with would hear her scream and would hear his voice. A much more logical choice would be simply to wait till she was off the phone and then grab her. He already saw by now that she seemed trusting, she wasn't creeped out, she wasn't any flight risk (on his part)

Another question is: How did he subdue her?

She screams and Rob hears it as presumably the abductor either grabs her, strikes at her, or approaches her in a menacing way. Probably one of the former as her back was likely turned from him. Somehow he grabs hold of her. There doesn't seem to be any real struggle--We've never heard of there being any blood or hair found at the scene.

He's able to say that he didn't need to use the phone (meaning one hand would be holding the phone) while he holds a likely struggling Angela in the other? He was either very physically strong, or again taking risks, playing with his victim and whoever was on the otherline.

Also, she obviously wasn't subdued in the truck. Rob hear her clearly, loudly scream his name. So obviously he didn't use chloroform to subdue her, nor was her mouth taped. She wasn't subdued in any real way, at least not verbally. She wasn't knocked unconscious or anything of the sort.

The actions of the killer and HOW he abducted her may provide clues about his psychology, level of intelligence and mindset. Since there's no body, we don't know how he killed his victims and thus no way of making a clear MO and no way of connecting her positively to any other possible victims of his.

As to this date no body has been found and thus we can either presume his MO included destroying the body in someway (burning it, for example), or disposing it in a manner which has precluded it from being found (Dumped somewhere the police didn't or wouldn't look, buried somewhere maybe even on his property, or scattered the body parts)--really depends on how meticulous this guy is.

ONE OTHER QUESTION: Did the abductor/killer hear Angela describing him and his truck? Unless she was whispering, he surely would've heard; If so, I wonder how long after she described him and the truck is when he grabbed her. Could answer one of my questions--why he didn't wait until she was off the phone. As soon as she described the truck, he HAD to grab her then; There could be no more dallying around. The UM segment presents this happening several minutes before he strikes her.

justins5256 · 09-21-2011, 09:22 PM

DazzlerSparkler · 09-21-2011, 11:19 PM

kane7474 · 09-22-2011, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Re-watching the episode involving her on the site which shall not be named, it raised some questions.

When Rob had Angie offer the phone to the abductor, why didn't the abductor say "Sure"? THEORETICALLY speaking, this would've gotten Angie off the phone much quicker (as she might've let him use the phone) which would've allowed the abductor to take his prey that much quicker.

Think about it. As soon as she hangs up, she's his. She disappears into the night with little clue as to what ever happened to her. All Rob and anyone else would ever truly know is he hung up and never heard from her again. No real evidence that this creepo wearing overalls absconded with her: It'd just be a theory. "Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It's simply an eerie coincidence."

On the killer's end, taking her offer of the phone offers him up to her; As soon as she's off the phone, he can grab her anytime he wants. The person on the other end would ever have any clue (as far as he knows) about what happened. No possible chase. The police would've been contacted much later--Maybe even hours rather. This guy was taking some awful risks.

Maybe I'm just viewing this as a sane person and so don't have much insight into the mind of an abductor and presumable killer, but from all I've read, serial killers seem very methodical in their approach to their victims. Consider Bundy--Perfectly played the part of an injured man who needed help to lure his victims to him.

This guy either didn't seem to have planned out his actions in great detail (other than perhaps his escape route), or he just wasn't that bright and cunning, or this guy had cajones of steel and somehow KNEW he wouldn't be caught.

Or maybe he, in some bizarre way, wanted to flirt with the danger of being caught. This a guy who wants to take a risk. A guy who wants to hurt whoever she knows besides doing whatever he has in mind with her. Consider he even got on the phone to chillingly and coldheartedly add, "I didn't need to use the phone anyway."

Consider his whole series of actions:

1) Circles around the truck stop for a few minutes. Enough time for her to get in her car and leave. He's taking a risk here that his prey could simply get off the phone and leave while he's circling.
2) Parks NEXT to Angela's car. Not behind it or in any way which would block her exit if she tried to flee in it. Let's say he makes a sudden move and scares her--she could run to her car, get in and drive off. His truck isn't blocking her escape. How is he to know how trusting she might be?
3) Acts as if he's attempting to use the other pay phone, possibly leaving prints behind. (This could be to let Angela's guard down a little; he's just like her, needing to use the phone).
4) Waits around suspiciously and declines Angie's offer of her phone, which as said above would've given him more control over the situation.
5) Abducts Angie while she's still on the phone, meaning anyone she's on the phone with would hear her scream and would hear his voice. A much more logical choice would be simply to wait till she was off the phone and then grab her. He already saw by now that she seemed trusting, she wasn't creeped out, she wasn't any flight risk (on his part)

Another question is: How did he subdue her?

She screams and Rob hears it as presumably the abductor either grabs her, strikes at her, or approaches her in a menacing way. Probably one of the former as her back was likely turned from him. Somehow he grabs hold of her. There doesn't seem to be any real struggle--We've never heard of there being any blood or hair found at the scene.

He's able to say that he didn't need to use the phone (meaning one hand would be holding the phone) while he holds a likely struggling Angela in the other? He was either very physically strong, or again taking risks, playing with his victim and whoever was on the otherline.

Also, she obviously wasn't subdued in the truck. Rob hear her clearly, loudly scream his name. So obviously he didn't use chloroform to subdue her, nor was her mouth taped. She wasn't subdued in any real way, at least not verbally. She wasn't knocked unconscious or anything of the sort.

The actions of the killer and HOW he abducted her may provide clues about his psychology, level of intelligence and mindset. Since there's no body, we don't know how he killed his victims and thus no way of making a clear MO and no way of connecting her positively to any other possible victims of his.

As to this date no body has been found and thus we can either presume his MO included destroying the body in someway (burning it, for example), or disposing it in a manner which has precluded it from being found (Dumped somewhere the police didn't or wouldn't look, buried somewhere maybe even on his property, or scattered the body parts)--really depends on how meticulous this guy is.

ONE OTHER QUESTION: Did the abductor/killer hear Angela describing him and his truck? Unless she was whispering, he surely would've heard; If so, I wonder how long after she described him and the truck is when he grabbed her. Could answer one of my questions--why he didn't wait until she was off the phone. As soon as she described the truck, he HAD to grab her then; There could be no more dallying around. The UM segment presents this happening several minutes before he strikes her.

It seems your trying to apply way too much logic and reason to the abductor. Why wouldn't he do this and why wouldn't he do that and it would have made more sense if he did this and then that.

You have to take into account the man was probably a serial killer driven by a passion to kill. He didnt sit there and weigh out options. He drove around a few times thinking it over, stopped and pretended to be getting stuff out of his truck while he continued to mull over whether he would grab her or not, went to the other phone and got close to her, she spoke to him, shortly after that he made the rush decision to go for it and he did it. That was that. It wasnt pre planned or well thought out. He was just very lucky

scc1222 · 09-22-2011, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Re-watching the episode involving her on the site which shall not be named, it raised some questions.

When Rob had Angie offer the phone to the abductor, why didn't the abductor say "Sure"? THEORETICALLY speaking, this would've gotten Angie off the phone much quicker (as she might've let him use the phone) which would've allowed the abductor to take his prey that much quicker.

Think about it. As soon as she hangs up, she's his. She disappears into the night with little clue as to what ever happened to her. All Rob and anyone else would ever truly know is he hung up and never heard from her again. No real evidence that this creepo wearing overalls absconded with her: It'd just be a theory. "Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It's simply an eerie coincidence."

On the killer's end, taking her offer of the phone offers him up to her; As soon as she's off the phone, he can grab her anytime he wants. The person on the other end would ever have any clue (as far as he knows) about what happened. No possible chase. The police would've been contacted much later--Maybe even hours rather. This guy was taking some awful risks.

Maybe I'm just viewing this as a sane person and so don't have much insight into the mind of an abductor and presumable killer, but from all I've read, serial killers seem very methodical in their approach to their victims. Consider Bundy--Perfectly played the part of an injured man who needed help to lure his victims to him.

This guy either didn't seem to have planned out his actions in great detail (other than perhaps his escape route), or he just wasn't that bright and cunning, or this guy had cajones of steel and somehow KNEW he wouldn't be caught.

Or maybe he, in some bizarre way, wanted to flirt with the danger of being caught. This a guy who wants to take a risk. A guy who wants to hurt whoever she knows besides doing whatever he has in mind with her. Consider he even got on the phone to chillingly and coldheartedly add, "I didn't need to use the phone anyway."

Consider his whole series of actions:

1) Circles around the truck stop for a few minutes. Enough time for her to get in her car and leave. He's taking a risk here that his prey could simply get off the phone and leave while he's circling.
2) Parks NEXT to Angela's car. Not behind it or in any way which would block her exit if she tried to flee in it. Let's say he makes a sudden move and scares her--she could run to her car, get in and drive off. His truck isn't blocking her escape. How is he to know how trusting she might be?
3) Acts as if he's attempting to use the other pay phone, possibly leaving prints behind. (This could be to let Angela's guard down a little; he's just like her, needing to use the phone).
4) Waits around suspiciously and declines Angie's offer of her phone, which as said above would've given him more control over the situation.
5) Abducts Angie while she's still on the phone, meaning anyone she's on the phone with would hear her scream and would hear his voice. A much more logical choice would be simply to wait till she was off the phone and then grab her. He already saw by now that she seemed trusting, she wasn't creeped out, she wasn't any flight risk (on his part)

Another question is: How did he subdue her?

She screams and Rob hears it as presumably the abductor either grabs her, strikes at her, or approaches her in a menacing way. Probably one of the former as her back was likely turned from him. Somehow he grabs hold of her. There doesn't seem to be any real struggle--We've never heard of there being any blood or hair found at the scene.

He's able to say that he didn't need to use the phone (meaning one hand would be holding the phone) while he holds a likely struggling Angela in the other? He was either very physically strong, or again taking risks, playing with his victim and whoever was on the otherline.

Also, she obviously wasn't subdued in the truck. Rob hear her clearly, loudly scream his name. So obviously he didn't use chloroform to subdue her, nor was her mouth taped. She wasn't subdued in any real way, at least not verbally. She wasn't knocked unconscious or anything of the sort.

The actions of the killer and HOW he abducted her may provide clues about his psychology, level of intelligence and mindset. Since there's no body, we don't know how he killed his victims and thus no way of making a clear MO and no way of connecting her positively to any other possible victims of his.

As to this date no body has been found and thus we can either presume his MO included destroying the body in someway (burning it, for example), or disposing it in a manner which has precluded it from being found (Dumped somewhere the police didn't or wouldn't look, buried somewhere maybe even on his property, or scattered the body parts)--really depends on how meticulous this guy is.

ONE OTHER QUESTION: Did the abductor/killer hear Angela describing him and his truck? Unless she was whispering, he surely would've heard; If so, I wonder how long after she described him and the truck is when he grabbed her. Could answer one of my questions--why he didn't wait until she was off the phone. As soon as she described the truck, he HAD to grab her then; There could be no more dallying around. The UM segment presents this happening several minutes before he strikes her.

keep in mind,he HAD to do it when no one else was around,whether she was on the phone or not.I think that's why he circled the block;he was checking the area out for others that might be hanging around.
Once he figured out there was no one,he had to move quickly,yet without alarming Angela.He accomplished both of those in his actions.think about it.

CuriousMind90 · 09-22-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane7474

It seems your trying to apply way too much logic and reason to the abductor. Why wouldn't he do this and why wouldn't he do that and it would have made more sense if he did this and then that.

You have to take into account the man was probably a serial killer driven by a passion to kill. He didnt sit there and weigh out options. He drove around a few times thinking it over, stopped and pretended to be getting stuff out of his truck while he continued to mull over whether he would grab her or not, went to the other phone and got close to her, she spoke to him, shortly after that he made the rush decision to go for it and he did it. That was that. It wasnt pre planned or well thought out. He was just very lucky

It's just these guys (serial killers) despite being driven primarily by passion--are also usually cunning. Like I said, look at some of the most well known serial killers. They too were driven by their urges just as much as this guy and yet planned out their crimes, it wasn't impulse. Most serial killers have very organized minds. They're basically human predators.

My theory basically was that besides being obviously a sociopath, this guy could be a suffer of some form of other mental illness--Schizophrenia, some form of dissassociative disorder--any form of disorder which would make one's thoughts disorganized.

The way he acted doesn't speak of a methodical, stone cold serial killer. His actions seem disorganized--perhaps the product of a delusional mind or something.

The point is by looking at the man's actions, we can build a picture of the man--A basic one, but still a picture:

A killer who is not particularly smart or organized. Not like a Bundy or Gacy who would generally plan out the crimes in advance. Not a BTK who would stalk and learn all he could about his victims. A very disorganized, impulse driven killer, utterly out of control of his urges, possibly of average to less than average intelligence, not a college graduate. Heat of the moment, a killer who chose his victims not by type but by opportunity, thus one would be hard pressed even if there was a body to find a pattern in the victims'. In fact, some of his other victims have probably been found and not recognized or connected to each other. I doubt Angela was his first or his last. Possibly suffering from some form of dissassociative disorder. A man who had some issue with women obviously and I'd venture to guess was involved in some seedy subcultures. Possibly involved in drugs.

Perhaps around people who had some inkling of who he was but never ventured to go against him and rat him out. Maybe seemed normal by day; Not an utterly raving loon. A semblance of sanity. Probably very few real friends though, and likely not married. Maybe some loose, casual girlfriends. Likely not a man with children; if he does have children, they were born out of wedlock. Maybe a member of a gang. Probably a young man--I'd say between age 25 and 35 in 1991.

SheRaaa · 09-22-2011, 04:49 PM

I just wanted to say thank you to the OP for a thought-provoking post.

The reason I come to this site is because I love analyzing mysteries, and the Angela Hammond abduction offers endless points to ponder. I really, really enjoy reading other people's thoughts on particular cases, and in my opinion, no case can be discussed too much or too often...especially if it is still unsolved.

Very interesting case, and looking back, her abductor seems very lucky to have "succeeded" in his abduction of poor Angela. What a scary episode!

CuriousMind90 · 09-23-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheRaaa

I just wanted to say thank you to the OP for a thought-provoking post.

The reason I come to this site is because I love analyzing mysteries, and the Angela Hammond abduction offers endless points to ponder. I really, really enjoy reading other people's thoughts on particular cases, and in my opinion, no case can be discussed too much or too often...especially if it is still unsolved.

Very interesting case, and looking back, her abductor seems very lucky to have "succeeded" in his abduction of poor Angela. What a scary episode!

He may have succeeded on April 4th 1991...But Justice doesn't know the concept of time.

kane7474 · 09-23-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

It's just these guys (serial killers) despite being driven primarily by passion--are also usually cunning. Like I said, look at some of the most well known serial killers. They too were driven by their urges just as much as this guy and yet planned out their crimes, it wasn't impulse. Most serial killers have very organized minds. They're basically human predators.

My theory basically was that besides being obviously a sociopath, this guy could be a suffer of some form of other mental illness--Schizophrenia, some form of dissassociative disorder--any form of disorder which would make one's thoughts disorganized.

The way he acted doesn't speak of a methodical, stone cold serial killer. His actions seem disorganized--perhaps the product of a delusional mind or something.

The point is by looking at the man's actions, we can build a picture of the man--A basic one, but still a picture:

A killer who is not particularly smart or organized. Not like a Bundy or Gacy who would generally plan out the crimes in advance. Not a BTK who would stalk and learn all he could about his victims. A very disorganized, impulse driven killer, utterly out of control of his urges, possibly of average to less than average intelligence, not a college graduate. Heat of the moment, a killer who chose his victims not by type but by opportunity, thus one would be hard pressed even if there was a body to find a pattern in the victims'. In fact, some of his other victims have probably been found and not recognized or connected to each other. I doubt Angela was his first or his last. Possibly suffering from some form of dissassociative disorder. A man who had some issue with women obviously and I'd venture to guess was involved in some seedy subcultures. Possibly involved in drugs.

Perhaps around people who had some inkling of who he was but never ventured to go against him and rat him out. Maybe seemed normal by day; Not an utterly raving loon. A semblance of sanity. Probably very few real friends though, and likely not married. Maybe some loose, casual girlfriends. Likely not a man with children; if he does have children, they were born out of wedlock. Maybe a member of a gang. Probably a young man--I'd say between age 25 and 35 in 1991.

There is no doubt that we have different types of personalities with serial killers. I think this guy fits the mold of a Kenneth Mcduff or a Dale Wayne Eaton. Both of these men where known to grab women on impulse drag them into a vehicle and later kill them. This is the type of killer we are looking for here and as far as Im concerened the killers have already been found.
In my opinion Jess Rush and Marvin Chaney or one of the two is responsible for the abduction of Angela Hammond. LE has stated they don't beleive this but have produced exacly jack **** to counteract it. They claimed to have new evidence three years ago. Well where is it? It was a lie and nothing more.
They say they can pretty much rule out that Angela's case is related to Trudy Darby and Sheryl Kenney. HOW??? They don't even have a suspect with Kenney so how could they possibly know that? Rush and Chaney did not just start and end their criminal acts with Darby.

Something led up to that and seeing as how they weren't caught until several years later one would assume they committed other similar acts. Rush admitted to killing other women and even wrote letters to another inmate giving certain details of the killings. These letters where used against both Rush and Chaney in court. Prosectutors in Chaney's case threatened to introduce evidence that would show he was involved in three other murders in order to get his lawyers to plead guilty to murdering Darby.

This basically means the prosecutors feel strongly that he was involved in other murders but will allow those cases to remain unsolved so that they could get the guilty plea and put him away. I believe that one of those other murders was Angela and LE knows that. In my opinion they do not want to incur the cost, time and effort to bring another case against men who are already in prison for life. For this reason the case will remain unsolved.

scc1222 · 09-23-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

He may have succeeded on April 4th 1991...But Justice doesn't know the concept of time.

ITA!!

DALLASTEXAN!! · 09-24-2011, 12:23 PM

Keep in mind that UM was a re-enactment. It may be possible that they did their best to describe the situation based on the boyfriend's account. You have to remember he wasn't there to see it. he is going by what he heard on the phone. communication over the phone may not be exact either....we are going by what he remembers and perceived that he heard from angie. when you take that into account it is hard to get the exact details of what the perp was actually thinking. that's what makes this a difficult case....but there is no reason to over analyze why it could or could not have happened the way it was described by UM. it appears that he was likely a drifter and seized the moment. there was not enough time for him to think things through. he passed through and left faster than anyone could gather any type of thoughts or enough evidence to even catch him. so does it even matter that she was on the phone when he grabbed her? no. it actually may have aided him if you really try to think about it. if she gets off the phone she has no reason to be there anymore.

badcompany · 10-04-2011, 01:15 AM

I'm going to second what most people are saying here. Too much guessing as to what was really going on in the abductor's mind, etc.

I actually thought about this case the other day. I was driving to go see some friends and at a stop light I saw a truck a couple lanes over with a decal depicting a fish hopping out of water (like the description from UM). Only thing was this was a very new truck (no older than 2005 I'd say) and in Northern Virginia, so I'm sure it had nothing to do with the case. Still though, it made me think about this case and it's the only truck I've ever seen with that kind of decal.

mwcarolina · 11-22-2011, 03:58 PM

First off, too much guessing on the abductor. let's remember that we dont know what is in his head and a poster said that serial killers are usually cunning and slick, but i would hazard a guess that's not true with ALL of them. everyone is not alike including serial killers. there may be sloopy ones too.

economistman192 · 05-28-2012, 02:21 PM

The boyfriend seems sincere in the episode, and I want to believe him. But if Angie was 7 blocks from his house, why would she make a call from a creepy payphone in the middle of town, stay on the phone talking about someone circling. If he was this close, why didn't she just say, "I'm on my way over" and get back in her car. 7 blocks? That's not very far. Then his car happens to break down as he's giving chase.

If it happened the way he said it did then it is truly heartbreaking that he couldn't save her. But I wonder at the possibility that they might have had some kind of fight and maybe she died accidentally.

TripleG · 05-29-2012, 03:51 AM

Normally in cases like this, I think "Yeah, the boyfriend/husband did it". The proof usually isn't there, but the way they carry themselves in the segments sort of paint the picture.

This case though, I absolutely believe the boyfriend's story and believe he had nothing to do with it. He seems sincere, and I assume the story could be verified by virtue of the fact that his car was damaged in the pursuit of the suspect.

As for the killer, unfortunately we'll never really be able to analyze him unless more info about this case comes out. His truck was pretty distinctive based on the description so I'm surprised that was never found. I've wondered though if the abductor heard Angela describing him and knew if he was going to do this, it was going to have to be quick.

09-21-2011, 08:01 PM	#1
CuriousMind90 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 21, 2010 Posts: 244	Angela Hammond's abductor: Some questions Re-watching the episode involving her on the site which shall not be named, it raised some questions. When Rob had Angie offer the phone to the abductor, why didn't the abductor say "Sure"? THEORETICALLY speaking, this would've gotten Angie off the phone much quicker (as she might've let him use the phone) which would've allowed the abductor to take his prey that much quicker. Think about it. As soon as she hangs up, she's his. She disappears into the night with little clue as to what ever happened to her. All Rob and anyone else would ever truly know is he hung up and never heard from her again. No real evidence that this creepo wearing overalls absconded with her: It'd just be a theory. "Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It's simply an eerie coincidence." On the killer's end, taking her offer of the phone offers him up to her; As soon as she's off the phone, he can grab her anytime he wants. The person on the other end would ever have any clue (as far as he knows) about what happened. No possible chase. The police would've been contacted much later--Maybe even hours rather. This guy was taking some awful risks. Maybe I'm just viewing this as a sane person and so don't have much insight into the mind of an abductor and presumable killer, but from all I've read, serial killers seem very methodical in their approach to their victims. Consider Bundy--Perfectly played the part of an injured man who needed help to lure his victims to him. This guy either didn't seem to have planned out his actions in great detail (other than perhaps his escape route), or he just wasn't that bright and cunning, or this guy had cajones of steel and somehow KNEW he wouldn't be caught. Or maybe he, in some bizarre way, wanted to flirt with the danger of being caught. This a guy who wants to take a risk. A guy who wants to hurt whoever she knows besides doing whatever he has in mind with her. Consider he even got on the phone to chillingly and coldheartedly add, "I didn't need to use the phone anyway." Consider his whole series of actions: 1) Circles around the truck stop for a few minutes. Enough time for her to get in her car and leave. He's taking a risk here that his prey could simply get off the phone and leave while he's circling. 2) Parks NEXT to Angela's car. Not behind it or in any way which would block her exit if she tried to flee in it. Let's say he makes a sudden move and scares her--she could run to her car, get in and drive off. His truck isn't blocking her escape. How is he to know how trusting she might be? 3) Acts as if he's attempting to use the other pay phone, possibly leaving prints behind. (This could be to let Angela's guard down a little; he's just like her, needing to use the phone). 4) Waits around suspiciously and declines Angie's offer of her phone, which as said above would've given him more control over the situation. 5) Abducts Angie while she's still on the phone, meaning anyone she's on the phone with would hear her scream and would hear his voice. A much more logical choice would be simply to wait till she was off the phone and then grab her. He already saw by now that she seemed trusting, she wasn't creeped out, she wasn't any flight risk (on his part) Another question is: How did he subdue her? She screams and Rob hears it as presumably the abductor either grabs her, strikes at her, or approaches her in a menacing way. Probably one of the former as her back was likely turned from him. Somehow he grabs hold of her. There doesn't seem to be any real struggle--We've never heard of there being any blood or hair found at the scene. He's able to say that he didn't need to use the phone (meaning one hand would be holding the phone) while he holds a likely struggling Angela in the other? He was either very physically strong, or again taking risks, playing with his victim and whoever was on the otherline. Also, she obviously wasn't subdued in the truck. Rob hear her clearly, loudly scream his name. So obviously he didn't use chloroform to subdue her, nor was her mouth taped. She wasn't subdued in any real way, at least not verbally. She wasn't knocked unconscious or anything of the sort. The actions of the killer and HOW he abducted her may provide clues about his psychology, level of intelligence and mindset. Since there's no body, we don't know how he killed his victims and thus no way of making a clear MO and no way of connecting her positively to any other possible victims of his. As to this date no body has been found and thus we can either presume his MO included destroying the body in someway (burning it, for example), or disposing it in a manner which has precluded it from being found (Dumped somewhere the police didn't or wouldn't look, buried somewhere maybe even on his property, or scattered the body parts)--really depends on how meticulous this guy is. ONE OTHER QUESTION: Did the abductor/killer hear Angela describing him and his truck? Unless she was whispering, he surely would've heard; If so, I wonder how long after she described him and the truck is when he grabbed her. Could answer one of my questions--why he didn't wait until she was off the phone. As soon as she described the truck, he HAD to grab her then; There could be no more dallying around. The UM segment presents this happening several minutes before he strikes her.

09-21-2011, 11:19 PM	#3
DazzlerSparkler Sharon Kinne Imposter Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 29, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 725
	__________________ And she was just gripin' and bitchin'. Just gripin' and bitchin. Offer your shoes and receive free margaritas!

05-28-2012, 02:21 PM	#14
economistman192 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 18, 2011 Posts: 112	boyfriend The boyfriend seems sincere in the episode, and I want to believe him. But if Angie was 7 blocks from his house, why would she make a call from a creepy payphone in the middle of town, stay on the phone talking about someone circling. If he was this close, why didn't she just say, "I'm on my way over" and get back in her car. 7 blocks? That's not very far. Then his car happens to break down as he's giving chase. If it happened the way he said it did then it is truly heartbreaking that he couldn't save her. But I wonder at the possibility that they might have had some kind of fight and maybe she died accidentally.

09-21-2011, 09:22 PM	#2
justins5256 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 08, 2002 Posts: 3,866

09-22-2011, 04:49 PM	#7
SheRaaa Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 30, 2009 Posts: 421	I just wanted to say thank you to the OP for a thought-provoking post. The reason I come to this site is because I love analyzing mysteries, and the Angela Hammond abduction offers endless points to ponder. I really, really enjoy reading other people's thoughts on particular cases, and in my opinion, no case can be discussed too much or too often...especially if it is still unsolved. Very interesting case, and looking back, her abductor seems very lucky to have "succeeded" in his abduction of poor Angela. What a scary episode!

09-24-2011, 12:23 PM	#11
DALLASTEXAN!! Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 31, 2007 Location: Devil's Backbone Posts: 3,137	Keep in mind that UM was a re-enactment. It may be possible that they did their best to describe the situation based on the boyfriend's account. You have to remember he wasn't there to see it. he is going by what he heard on the phone. communication over the phone may not be exact either....we are going by what he remembers and perceived that he heard from angie. when you take that into account it is hard to get the exact details of what the perp was actually thinking. that's what makes this a difficult case....but there is no reason to over analyze why it could or could not have happened the way it was described by UM. it appears that he was likely a drifter and seized the moment. there was not enough time for him to think things through. he passed through and left faster than anyone could gather any type of thoughts or enough evidence to even catch him. so does it even matter that she was on the phone when he grabbed her? no. it actually may have aided him if you really try to think about it. if she gets off the phone she has no reason to be there anymore.

10-04-2011, 01:15 AM	#12
badcompany Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 21, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 47	I'm going to second what most people are saying here. Too much guessing as to what was really going on in the abductor's mind, etc. I actually thought about this case the other day. I was driving to go see some friends and at a stop light I saw a truck a couple lanes over with a decal depicting a fish hopping out of water (like the description from UM). Only thing was this was a very new truck (no older than 2005 I'd say) and in Northern Virginia, so I'm sure it had nothing to do with the case. Still though, it made me think about this case and it's the only truck I've ever seen with that kind of decal.

11-22-2011, 03:58 PM	#13
mwcarolina Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 01, 2010 Location: nc Posts: 466	First off, too much guessing on the abductor. let's remember that we dont know what is in his head and a poster said that serial killers are usually cunning and slick, but i would hazard a guess that's not true with ALL of them. everyone is not alike including serial killers. there may be sloopy ones too.

05-29-2012, 03:51 AM	#15
TripleG Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 19, 2011 Location: East Coast Posts: 98	Normally in cases like this, I think "Yeah, the boyfriend/husband did it". The proof usually isn't there, but the way they carry themselves in the segments sort of paint the picture. This case though, I absolutely believe the boyfriend's story and believe he had nothing to do with it. He seems sincere, and I assume the story could be verified by virtue of the fact that his car was damaged in the pursuit of the suspect. As for the killer, unfortunately we'll never really be able to analyze him unless more info about this case comes out. His truck was pretty distinctive based on the description so I'm surprised that was never found. I've wondered though if the abductor heard Angela describing him and knew if he was going to do this, it was going to have to be quick.