Bizarre Amy Bradley Info

[RobinW]

Okay, I know this link is five years old, but I found some really bizarre information here I hadn't heard before. Mr. and Mrs. Bradley tried to sue Royal Caribbean Cruises for negligence in Amy's disappearance and apparently, the lawsuit was dismissed because of accusations of fraud since the Bradleys "had intentionally concealed the existence of over 100 witnesses who reported seeing Amy living freely and under no duress at various times after her disappearance".
http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/about3360-0-asc-0.html

WTF?! This is the first I've heard of "over 100 witnesses" seeing Amy alive! Apparently, during the suit, the Bradleys did openly mention the verified three witnesses who have claimed to seen Amy alive in Aruba (who were recently featured in the "Vanished" episode about the case), but where did these other 100 witnesses come from?! We all know that in every missing persons case, there will be always plenty of reported sightings from people who were mistaken and saw a different person, so I can believe that over 100 people did report that they saw Amy. But how can the court be so sure that those sightings were genuine? You'd think there would need to be hard evidence of that before a judge would openly accuse grieving parents of committing fraud!

Anyone else have more information or insight about this?

[egswanso]

Originally Posted by RobinW

Okay, I know this link is five years old, but I found some really bizarre information here I hadn't heard before. Mr. and Mrs. Bradley tried to sue Royal Caribbean Cruises for negligence in Amy's disappearance and apparently, the lawsuit was dismissed because of accusations of fraud since the Bradleys "had intentionally concealed the existence of over 100 witnesses who reported seeing Amy living freely and under no duress at various times after her disappearance".
http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/about3360-0-asc-0.html

WTF?! This is the first I've heard of "over 100 witnesses" seeing Amy alive! Apparently, during the suit, the Bradleys did openly mention the verified three witnesses who have claimed to seen Amy alive in Aruba (who were recently featured in the "Vanished" episode about the case), but where did these other 100 witnesses come from?! We all know that in every missing persons case, there will be always plenty of reported sightings from people who were mistaken and saw a different person, so I can believe that over 100 people did report that they saw Amy. But how can the court be so sure that those sightings were genuine? You'd think there would need to be hard evidence of that before a judge would openly accuse grieving parents of committing fraud!

Anyone else have more information or insight about this?

I haven't reviewed the pleadings or anything, but my understanding is that the case was dismissed because of the perjury committed by the Bradleys, not the merits of the underlying matter they perjured themselves by - specifically, as I understand it, the Bradleys lied at their depositions about the number of witnesses - now that not saying that the witnesses are correct, but that's not the question - essentially, by lying, the court and the defense were denied the opportunity to evaluate the witness sightings, and since the main defense to a wrongful death lawsuit such as this one would be lack of death, that's a big, big deal.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by egswanso

I haven't reviewed the pleadings or anything, but my understanding is that the case was dismissed because of the perjury committed by the Bradleys, not the merits of the underlying matter they perjured themselves by - specifically, as I understand it, the Bradleys lied at their depositions about the number of witnesses - now that not saying that the witnesses are correct, but that's not the question - essentially, by lying, the court and the defense were denied the opportunity to evaluate the witness sightings, and since the main defense to a wrongful death lawsuit such as this one would be lack of death, that's a big, big deal.

Ah, that makes a bit more sense. I do have to wonder though if the Bradleys committed deliberate perjury or just mistakenly thought they only had to mention the witness sightings that had any credence. I'm sure they got many tips from witnesses which were discounted and written off by authorities and the Bradleys might have thought they no longer had relevance. Given that there was a $250,000 reward, I'm sure they probably got some false witness sightings from liars who were after the money. The witness sightings that were believed to have credibility were the ones in which Amy was described as being under duress, not "living freely or under no duress".

That said, it is kind of strange that the Bradleys filed a wrongful death in addition to one for negligence. Given the cruise line's suspicious actions, they might have had a shot at winning for negligence, but why file for wrongful death when they've openly stated on numerous occasions that they feel their daughter could still be alive? There are some pretty disgusting remarks on the comment board at that link from people accusing the Bradleys of being shameless hucksters trying to profit off their daughter's disappearance, which is ridiculous, considering how much money they lost from paying a guy to find Amy who wound up being a scam artist.

[ontarioboi]

maybe it makes the parents sleep better at night, thinking their daughters were sold into the sex trade which is extreamly rare. There is a racial undertone to this and they are trying to exploit it to the max.

bradley probably fell over the boat after a night of partying. She probably was a bit disoriented. Have you guys seen that guy in the band she was with, enough said. Holloway on the other hand, probably had a lot to drink like many of her classmates which was reported. I think she died around van der sloot and he probably dumped the body. Both bodies are in the ocean. Similarly, both parents are struggling to accept that fact.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by ontarioboi

maybe it makes the parents sleep better at night, thinking their daughters were sold into the sex trade which is extreamly rare. There is a racial undertone to this and they are trying to exploit it to the max.

bradley probably fell over the boat after a night of partying. She probably was a bit disoriented. Have you guys seen that guy in the band she was with, enough said. Holloway on the other hand, probably had a lot to drink like many of her classmates which was reported. I think she died around van der sloot and he probably dumped the body. Both bodies are in the ocean. Similarly, both parents are struggling to accept that fact.

I'm willing to believe that she might be in the ocean and that someone could have pushed her or murdered her and dumped her body overboard. However, I've never believed she fell overboard accidentally since cruise ship railings are very high and specifically designed to prevent that.

I was always skeptical about the sex slave theory until I saw the recent "Vanished" episode about her, which gave a lot of credence to these sightings of her in Aruba. Sadly, even if this is true, I doubt she's still alive today as it's been 13 years as her captors may have felt she outlived her usefulness or became a dangerous liability because of all the media coverage surrounding her.

[egswanso]

Originally Posted by RobinW

Ah, that makes a bit more sense. I do have to wonder though if the Bradleys committed deliberate perjury or just mistakenly thought they only had to mention the witness sightings that had any credence. I'm sure they got many tips from witnesses which were discounted and written off by authorities and the Bradleys might have thought they no longer had relevance. Given that there was a $250,000 reward, I'm sure they probably got some false witness sightings from liars who were after the money. The witness sightings that were believed to have credibility were the ones in which Amy was described as being under duress, not "living freely or under no duress".

I presume that was the argument in the motions to dismiss - but if they were asked about all the tips, that means all the tips, not all the credible tips, etc.

That said, it is kind of strange that the Bradleys filed a wrongful death in addition to one for negligence. Given the cruise line's suspicious actions, they might have had a shot at winning for negligence, but why file for wrongful death when they've openly stated on numerous occasions that they feel their daughter could still be alive? There are some pretty disgusting remarks on the comment board at that link from people accusing the Bradleys of being shameless hucksters trying to profit off their daughter's disappearance, which is ridiculous, considering how much money they lost from paying a guy to find Amy who wound up being a scam artist.

It does paint them in a very unflattering light - moreover, even the negligence action is problematic, since the mechanics of Amy's disappearance are unknown. Could the cruise line be liable if they (for instance) knowingly employed a sex offender? Of course. But who's to say Amy didn't just kill herself, or voluntarily disappeared? It's a very weak lawsuit.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by egswanso

It does paint them in a very unflattering light - moreover, even the negligence action is problematic, since the mechanics of Amy's disappearance are unknown. Could the cruise line be liable if they (for instance) knowingly employed a sex offender? Of course. But who's to say Amy didn't just kill herself, or voluntarily disappeared? It's a very weak lawsuit.

I assumed that most of the negligence accusations were based on the reactions of the cruise line personnel to Amy's disappearance. They waited a long time to make an official announcement and they did not put the ship into lockdown after it docked, meaning that most of the passengers were able to disembark before they could complete a thorough search. Granted, the crew was probably inexperienced at this sort of thing, but this may never have become a mystery if they'd handled things differently.

[ernmerica]

How reliable was the military personnel that claimed to have seen her at a brothel? I guess it isn't that reliable because of how long it took for him to come forward, but for someone to approach saying their name is Amy Bradley from Virginia is pretty convincing.

Speaking of the Vanished segment, I would discount the one witness that saw her on the beach, he didn't even get to speak to her. The woman whom had the bathroom encounter is very intriguing though because of that horrid photo that came out on Dr Phil resembles the sketch of the woman she saw.


Hate to say it, but she probably is dead. She certainly did not commit suicide. It COULD have been an accident, but doubtful, you'd think they'd find a body. This is up there for me in top UM cases I wish were solved with the Arkansas boys on the train tracks. But it probably will remain unsolved.







Was just cruisin around looking for stuff on the story, I found the band website for Alister "Yellow" Douglas, the bass player alleged in the Bradley case.






http://unitedsoundband.webs.com/bandmembers.htm




Heres the website from the guy that coincidentally filmed Amy right before she vanished. It offers very interesting insight.

http://chrisfenwick.com/home/2010/3/...s-missing.html

[TheCars1986]

I'm sorry but I've never bought into the crazy sex slave theory. For one, why pick Amy out of the thousands of women on the ship to abduct? Why not abduct more than just Amy, on a ship with thousands of women? And just how much of a connection could a bass player of a cruise ship band be connected with this sex slave ring in the Carribeans? The account her family gave on the night of her disappearance shows what most likely happened to her, IMHO.

-Her brother says she was out partying all night and didn't return to the room until 4 a.m.
-Her father says he woke up shortly after and looked out on the deck and saw Amy lying there.
-He says when he saw Amy lying on their deck, the sliding door was closed.
-Then just thirty minutes later her father wakes up to see the door cracked open and Amy is gone.

How does all of this fit into a sex slave abduction theory? I just don't see it. I think Amy woke up (probably intoxicated), went in her room to grab her cigarettes and returned out to the balcony but she didn't close the sliding door all the way. Perhaps she didn't want to wake her parents by opening and closing the door constantly, and since she probably planned on going back in to her room after her smoke, this is why I think the door was left cracked open. Her brother says she was afraid of heights and had a general fear of falling overboard, and I think with a little liquid encouragement she climbed up on the wall and fell overboard. It just seems like the most likely scenario given what we know to be certain from the last people to have seen Amy alive.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by ernmerica

How reliable was the military personnel that claimed to have seen her at a brothel? I guess it isn't that reliable because of how long it took for him to come forward, but for someone to approach saying their name is Amy Bradley from Virginia is pretty convincing.

Well, obviously, he wasn't supposed to be in the brothel to begin with and never even knew there was a missing American girl named Amy Bradley at the time, and decided to come forward years later when he found out about her case. Even though there was a $250,000 reward, he apparently didn't ask for anything for his information. I'd be interested to know if the guy was still in the military and still in a position to be disciplined for going to the brothel at the time he came forward because that would definitely lend a lot more credence to him not making the story up.

Originally Posted by ernmerica

Was just cruisin around looking for stuff on the story, I found the band website for Alister "Yellow" Douglas, the bass player alleged in the Bradley case.

I just checked the Websleuths thread on this case and one of the posters actually sent this guy an E-mail asking about the case and got a very angry response back, claiming he had nothing to do with her disappearance and that's he so sick of being harassed after all these years. Kind of a catch-22 for him since I'm sure he wants to use the website to promote the band, but will always be open to E-mails from strangers asking about Amy Bradley. If he is completely innocent, I do feel sorry for him.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Her brother says she was afraid of heights and had a general fear of falling overboard, and I think with a little liquid encouragement she climbed up on the wall and fell overboard. It just seems like the most likely scenario given what we know to be certain from the last people to have seen Amy alive.

I agree that it makes little sense to kidnap a woman from a cruise ship when it was going to dock at Curacao soon and there's a much better chance of snatching someone after they've disembarked from the ship. While I will never be 100 % convinced about the sex slave story or any other conspiracy theories, but I just don't think I can EVER be convinced that she fell overboard accidentally. I mean, it's certainly possible and I know alcohol can cause people to do things they normally wouldn't do, but I just don't know why a person who's afraid of heights would suddenly decide to climb to the top of a railing at 6 AM when nobody else is around.

That said, if there's any truth to that theory, it is a pretty senseless death and I can definitely see why her family would try to pursue every possible theory. We've seen some cases on UM where it's obvious that family and friends are creating elaborate conspiracy theories about the death of a loved one because they don't want to accept the fact that the victim made a stupid mistake and died senselessly.

[ontarioboi]

anybody possibly consider suicide? It does happen regularly.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by ontarioboi

anybody possibly consider suicide? It does happen regularly.

It's not impossible, but she had just graduated college, was going to start a new job after her vacation, was very close to her family and showed no signs of being unhappy or depressed. What's unique about this case is that the Chris Fenwick site has actually footage of Amy dancing just hours before she disappeared and she certainly doesn't look like someone who's planing to kill herself.

I mean, I know some suicide victims show no signs of depression and completely surprise people when it happens, but it would be pretty damn cold for Amy to kill herself while on vacation with her family and doing so in a fashion so that her body would never be found.

[ontarioboi]

Originally Posted by RobinW

It's not impossible, but she had just graduated college, was going to start a new job after her vacation, was very close to her family and showed no signs of being unhappy or depressed. What's unique about this case is that the Chris Fenwick site has actually footage of Amy dancing just hours before she disappeared and she certainly doesn't look like someone who's planing to kill herself.

I mean, I know some suicide victims show no signs of depression and completely surprise people when it happens, but it would be pretty damn cold for Amy to kill herself while on vacation with her family and doing so in a fashion so that her body would never be found.

valid point. btw, someone can easily fall off a ship because of the erratic tides the ship may experience. Even if you are just leaning. The family needs to make peace and stop trying to deomonize the island like the holloways. Aruba only has about 3 murders per year and it is the size of baltimore.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by RobinW

I mean, I know some suicide victims show no signs of depression and completely surprise people when it happens, but it would be pretty damn cold for Amy to kill herself while on vacation with her family and doing so in a fashion so that her body would never be found.

Suicidal people certainly aren't worried about being "cold" when they kill themself, or else they wouldn't go through with it. Point is, suicide is just as likely a scenario as the accidental death or any other theory presented. We simlpy have no way of knowing what Amy's state of mind was. Hell, look at former MLB pitcher Mike Flanagan (from the Baltimore Orioles), he was a commentator for O's games, when out of nowhere last week he shot himself in the face with a shotgun on his property (his family found him). When you're pushed to the point of suicide, the last thing on your mind is worrying about hurting anyone's feelings.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Suicidal people certainly aren't worried about being "cold" when they kill themself, or else they wouldn't go through with it. Point is, suicide is just as likely a scenario as the accidental death or any other theory presented. We simlpy have no way of knowing what Amy's state of mind was. Hell, look at former MLB pitcher Mike Flannagan (from the Baltimore Orioles), he was a commentator for O's games, when out of nowhere last week he shot himself in the face with a shotgun on his property (his family found him). When you're pushed to the point of suicide, the last thing on your mind is worrying about hurting anyone's feelings.

Completely OT, but I grew up watching Flanagan as a Blue Jays fan during the late 80s and had not heard this news yet! YIKES!