Was Daphne controlling after she married Niles?

[andress_jade]

I was reading around on some different sites and on You Tube and people are saying that Daphne controlled Niles after they got married. They said she turned into another Maris or Mel. I disagree with that. Yes, Daphne changed after she and Niles got together, but I never felt she was controlling. That's what I loved about their relationship, that they were equals and made decisions together. I never felt Daphne made Niles do things he didn't want to do. She never made him wait on her hand and foot or treat him like a slave like Maris did.
Daphne became stronger and wasn't a pushover anymore. Niles wasn't a doormat anymore either. He stood up to Mel for Daphne and grew a backbone, something he never had with Maris. I don't understand why people think that Daphne controlled Niles. I saw two people in love and happy and who accepted each other for who they were. I felt they showed what a real marriage should be like, that is why I liked them so much as a couple.
Daphne did things that Niles wanted to do like go to the opera or the symphony and Niles did things that Daphne wanted to do like go to concerts and things. Niles fought for Daphne and Daphne fought for Niles. It was a two way street. Even when they had a fight, they found a way to work it out and they became stronger because of it.
Maybe I am seeing things because I love them so much but then again, maybe not.
Daphne was someone that Niles needed in his life. Even Frasier and Martin knew that Daphne was good for Niles. They knew each other so well because they had been friends before they ever became a couple.
Anyway, I am ranting on and on. Let me know how you feel. I could go on all day!

[andress_jade]

I guess no one has an opinion.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by andress_jade

I guess no one has an opinion.

Well, if you ask me...

I think she was somewhat controlling.
What about the episode where Daphne investigated one of Niles' patients when she found out that this patient had a crush on him. Niles sure took charge in that episode.

I'm still on season six. Working my way through all of them again.
The beginning of season six was like a hump to get over. I don't like the episodes of depression (from Frasier loosing his job).

[andress_jade]

Originally Posted by Pat

Well, if you ask me...

I think she was somewhat controlling.
What about the episode where Daphne investigated one of Niles' patients when she found out that this patient had a crush on him. Niles sure took charge in that episode.

Niles and Daphne weren't even married at that time, and I believe Daphne had a good reason for being a bit nervous over the patient who had a crush on Niles. It was wrong for her to go through patient files but I can still understand why she did it. I think that episode was a good example of how no matter what obstacles or struggles they faced, they could get through them together because they loved each other. They struggled so hard to be together, they went through a lot to get where they were. Daphne felt she was always competing with Maris and Mel, because they were both so dominating. I never felt Daphne was at all like Maris or Mel.

[andress_jade]

I really want to know how more people feel about this. Pat already told me how he felt. Please let me know your opinion. I just don't see how people could feel that Daphne was like Maris or Mel. I am offended.

[Pat]

Here I am in Season 10 now. It is ep Bristle While You Work (Part 1) where Niles is about to go have his heart checked out. He hasn't told Daphne that he thinks he may be having heart failure...

Niles: [voice over of thoughts] I can't believe this is happening.
After all those misspent years of frustration and yearning,
I finally find the fulfillment of my dreams only to have it
snatched away. Look at her. She's so beautiful, so perfect.
She deserves nothing but happiness. I hope, when I'm gone,
she's able to make a life with someone else. After a suitable
period of mourning, of course.

He collects his things and reaches for the door.

Daphne: Niles?
Niles: [emotionally] Yes, my love?
Daphne: [firmly] WHEN are you going to change the paper in the bottom
of the bird cage, hmm? I've asked you three times already.
Niles: Soon as I get back.

She heads off.

Niles: [v.o.] Maybe when I'm gone, Her Majesty can muck out her own
birdcage.

[andress_jade]

Originally Posted by Pat

Here I am in Season 10 now. It is ep Bristle While You Work (Part 1) where Niles is about to go have his heart checked out. He hasn't told Daphne that he thinks he may be having heart failure...

Niles: [voice over of thoughts] I can't believe this is happening.
After all those misspent years of frustration and yearning,
I finally find the fulfillment of my dreams only to have it
snatched away. Look at her. She's so beautiful, so perfect.
She deserves nothing but happiness. I hope, when I'm gone,
she's able to make a life with someone else. After a suitable
period of mourning, of course.

He collects his things and reaches for the door.

Daphne: Niles?
Niles: [emotionally] Yes, my love?
Daphne: [firmly] WHEN are you going to change the paper in the bottom
of the bird cage, hmm? I've asked you three times already.
Niles: Soon as I get back.

She heads off.

Niles: [v.o.] Maybe when I'm gone, Her Majesty can muck out her own
birdcage.

What is wrong with her asking him to clean out the birdcage?

[Pat]

Nothing is wrong with it, it's just the first time in the series that I've seen her talk to him that way... as if he's being scolded.

[born2late]

Well, I'm gonna have to pay more attention to them after they were married. I know Hallmark is showing them now. I do know Daphne was "firm" with Martin about his theraphy. She was never shy about stating her opinions, but I don't think I would call her controlling. Maris was controlling, and I would say Mel (ugh) was manipulative.

[Schmoopie]

I don't think anyone is as horrible as Mel and to even think that Daphne turned into Mel or Maris makes me shudder. She did change after they got married but so did he. I have to admit that the episode (yes before they were married) where she went to see what Heather Murphy looked like and read her files was a little disturbing becuase it seemed to be so out of character for her, but I love how he reasurred her that she was the only woman he was in love with. I just watched those episodes revolving around Niles' heart attack and I don't remember that exchange in "Bristle While You Work." But then again the most promient of those episodes is the one right before "Rooms With a View" and "Rooms" itself.

I agree that Maris was controlling and Mel was munipulative and I don't think that Niles would have been able to handle it had Daphne become like them. And actually that would have been a big turn off for me as well as a big letdown; waiting for 7 seasons for them to get together and then have her end up like the two women he was married to before.

Daphne has always been assertive; that was pretty apparant when she would talk to Frasier and Martin, so I think it's only natural for her to be that way a little bit with Niles. But he was pretty assertive with her when he found out that she had gone to visit Heather Murphy.

I'll have to watch some of the later episodes myself to see how they were as a married couple because now I'm a bit curious.

[andress_jade]

Originally Posted by Schmoopie

I don't think anyone is as horrible as Mel and to even think that Daphne turned into Mel or Maris makes me shudder. She did change after they got married but so did he. I have to admit that the episode (yes before they were married) where she went to see what Heather Murphy looked like and read her files was a little disturbing becuase it seemed to be so out of character for her, but I love how he reasurred her that she was the only woman he was in love with. I just watched those episodes revolving around Niles' heart attack and I don't remember that exchange in "Bristle While You Work." But then again the most promient of those episodes is the one right before "Rooms With a View" and "Rooms" itself.

I agree that Maris was controlling and Mel was munipulative and I don't think that Niles would have been able to handle it had Daphne become like them. And actually that would have been a big turn off for me as well as a big letdown; waiting for 7 seasons for them to get together and then have her end up like the two women he was married to before.

Daphne has always been assertive; that was pretty apparant when she would talk to Frasier and Martin, so I think it's only natural for her to be that way a little bit with Niles. But he was pretty assertive with her when he found out that she had gone to visit Heather Murphy.


I'll have to watch some of the later episodes myself to see how they were as a married couple because now I'm a bit curious.

Here is the opinion of one person-"used to adore daphne's character up to season 8 when she became so annoying and unlike her... Before she was funny, happy, free spirit and then the writers made her evil, fussy, demanding and just not herself..."

Here is another persons response to that-"Totally agreed with you there. What once was a ditzy and funny English character, became an annoying woman who seemed to be exactly like every other female sitcom character. Rewatching seasons 1-8 and then 8 onwards, is like watching two totally different characters. Accent, fashion sense, mannerisms... they didn't even subtly change her. Would have been the equivalent of the producers switching actresses."

Here is what I said-"I disagree with this. Jane Leeves said in an interview that once Niles and Daphne got together they both changed. Their love for one another changed them. Niles wasn't as stuck up and neurotic. He was less wimpy as well. Daphne was tougher and stood up for herself more. A lot of people didn't like her new personality but I embraced it. It was nice to see her as a stronger person and not afraid to stand up for herself. She was still sweet and funny but not a pushover anymore."

This is what they said to me-"I could easily see the attitude change, it's just they gradually changed both those characters already, over the middle seasons. Once it came to the season where she finally started seeing how he felt, it was like they went from gradual to full speed. If they'd not drastically changed her fashion sense and accent I guess it would have felt like a smoother transition To me, in the end, she was just a friendlier version of Mel and Maris. And that's saying something!"

That last line really upset me, how could they even compare Daphne to the two wenches Maris and Mel? Daphne was nothing like them not even a friendlier version of them! Niles wouldn't have fallen in love and married her if she as anything like them. That is why I liked Daphne so much, she was the complete opposite of Maris and Mel. Daphne always had a bit of an edge, it just came out more when she became Niles' wife. Daphne's accent didn't really change either, her clothes did but I loved that! I hate to go on and on about this, it just really upsets me.

[Pat]

I've been pondering this over and over - great post by-the-way

I have just finished rewatching season 10 and if I were to give Daphne a report card on her compasion in her relationship for the first year of marriage...

Considering this is her and Niles' first year of marriage and they are still newly weds...

I would have to consider the following:
Daphne went far out of her way to help her husband and brother learn how to ride bikes - when she could have easily have made fun of them (Faternal Schwinns), she has joined Niles in yoga sessions (Kenny On The Couch), she showed great passion when Niles had open-heart surgery (Bristle While You Work-Rooms With A View-Don't Go Breaking My Heart), and she supported Niles, letting him have his theropy sessions at home when his office was being remodeled (The Harrassed).
And not to mention the "Nurse Naughty" outfit she wore for him when he had recovered his heart surgery.

She was not bossy, crude, or any other words that may be used to describe the way Mel or Meris treated Niles.

For season 10, Daphne gets an A+ in my book.

[Schmoopie]

I still cringe when I think of Daphne being like Maris or Mel. I don't like Maris at all but I believe that she does love Niles (or did) even somewhat. But Mel is a completely different story. I absolutlely LOATHE her and to think that Daphne is anything like her is just insane. I don't think she changed THAT much during the series. And Pat is right about the wonderful things taht Daphne and Niles did for each other after they got married. Even before. I mean how many men would send their fiance's on a trip to Hawaii with her mother-in-law (a trip meant for Niles and Daphne) and then sneak over to England to find her father; even though it did cause a lot of friction. I felt a little sorry for him having to endure such misery but that's definitely love.

[andress_jade]

Originally Posted by Schmoopie

I still cringe when I think of Daphne being like Maris or Mel. I don't like Maris at all but I believe that she does love Niles (or did) even somewhat. But Mel is a completely different story. I absolutlely LOATHE her and to think that Daphne is anything like her is just insane. I don't think she changed THAT much during the series. And Pat is right about the wonderful things taht Daphne and Niles did for each other after they got married. Even before. I mean how many men would send their fiance's on a trip to Hawaii with her mother-in-law (a trip meant for Niles and Daphne) and then sneak over to England to find her father; even though it did cause a lot of friction. I felt a little sorry for him having to endure such misery but that's definitely love.

Daphne said it best in Moons Over Seattle-"You would do anything, even put up with my insane family to make me happy. Because you traveled halfway around the world to make my dreams come true, even the impossible ones. Because I can't spend one more second not being your wife Niles Crane because I adore you."

Jane was amazing in that scene. I cry every time I watch it. To see the tears in both their eyes was just too much. A phenomenal scene. They are what true love is about.

[Schmoopie]

Originally Posted by andress_jade

Daphne said it best in Moons Over Seattle-"You would do anything, even put up with my insane family to make me happy. Because you traveled halfway around the world to make my dreams come true, even the impossible ones. Because I can't spend one more second not being your wife Niles Crane because I adore you."

Jane was amazing in that scene. I cry every time I watch it. To see the tears in both their eyes was just too much. A phenomenal scene. They are what true love is about.

That is a beautiful scene and I just love when Niles is so emotional hearing her heartfelt words. DHP and Jane were wonderful in that episode.