Sometimes I Think we TV-show on DVD buyers are the biggest fools of them all

[hch]

You all wonder why our favorite Tv shows get stalled. I just talked with Mr. Brian Ward from Shout! Factory and he told me this sad-but-true fact of life:

It's just not a realistic view of the industry. It's too expensive to release these as FOUR discs, when retailers don't want them, let alone 16+. Would I rather own a complete series? Absolutely. But I don't understand why people don't seem to understand that the money is finite. We're not swimming in our Money Bin over here. I don't understand why I have to come over here on a daily basis and explain the way of the world.

1.) We pay hundreds of thousands of dollars on licensing deals. Many of these deals are for shows the studios have, in fact, already abandoned because they've proven to be poor sellers by their standards.

2.) We spend thousands of dollars on production costs (i.e. encoding, menus, authoring, QC, packaging design, music, talent, bonus material crews, etc.).

3.) We spend thousands of dollars on manufacturing. Did you know we pay per unit just to have people PUT THE DISCS INTO THE AMARAYS?!?

4.) We spend thousands of dollars on marketing. We pay to have copies sent to press. We pay to have copies sent to marketing teams (who are also paid). We pay to have those banners put up on the websites you see and in print advertising.

5.) We spend thousands of dollars to solicit to retailers.

6.) Retailers buy from us at a discounted rate.

7.) Retailers sell to you. Some of you buy them. Some of you don't.

8.) If they sell well, the retailers ask for more. We pay thousands of dollars to re-manufacture. If they don't sell well, the retailers send them back for a refund. Which costs us thousands of dollars. And then we store them. Again, thousands of dollars.

9.) If they sell well, we do the subsequent season at a lower budget, because the entire project is all under one blanket budget number. For instance, if a budget on "My Favorite TV Show" is $100,000 for production and manufacturing and we spend, say, $20,000 on S1, we have only $80,000 left to work with for subsequent seasons. Those subsequent seasons, mind you, ALWAYS sell less. You'll be hard pressed to find a second season of any show sell better than the first. The third season sells less than the second. And so on.

10.) If it's a hit show, retail never stops ordering their copies and stocking their stores. If it's not, retail stops ordering altogether and we have to make two decisions. A.) Do we continue to produce anyway? B.) Do we sell via Shout! Factory Select, where rather than sell thousands of units we sell, maybe, hundreds?

See where the linchpin is? Retail. And their sales. Sell well, continue. Don't sell well, stop dead in your tracks. Boycott all you want. But spending all of that "$100,000" on one large box set that now has to be sold at a higher price at a time when the retail buyers want smaller sets that cost less doesn't make sense. We're alienating retailers, who we rely on. And we're gambling on shows that may not have NEARLY the fan base you seem to think it does. Just because you spend time talking to devoted fans online and at family/friend barbecues doesn't mean you represent a greater fan community who all seem to think "My Favorite TV Show" needs to be sitting in their collections.

And, y'know what? I see a lot of people claiming that they'd pay whatever we charge. But that's a lie. They don't order from us at MSRP. They order from Amazon at a highly discounted rate. They order from Best Buy and Target. They order from Wal-Mart. And if the price is still too high, you wait until it comes down. Thanks. You've now sent the message that the market's not there. Again. The sets go down a bargain or clearance price and then you finally pick it up. But by then, it's too late and the retailer has already decided that they can't make any money. You're frugal? So are they.

I just don't get why this is hard to understand. You all act as if we paid those initial hundreds of thousands of dollars per project just to punch it in the stomach and then kick it again once or twice while it was down. And you along with it. There's a reason we went after those titles. We thought they deserved to be out. And so did retail, when we asked--prior to the acquisition, as they give us an idea of what they'd think they'd sell, etc. If the market doesn't appear to be there, we don't acquire it.

But let's make no mistakes here. Just because you think something is an awful TV show doesn't mean others share the same opinion. People have a wide range of tastes and none should be looked down upon for it. In fact, shows you may think are awful may have sold more units (in individual seasons, even!) than the stuff you think is good. Does that mean your shows aren't good? No. Just means some shows seem to be "worthy" to live on fans' shelves more than others.

Don't know how to explain it any more than that, without giving you exact numbers, which could cost me my job. So I'd rather not, thanks.

'til I explain this again tomorrow...

Wow.

[USATVFAN]

Originally Posted by hch

You all wonder why our favorite Tv shows get stalled. I just talked with Mr. Brian Ward from Shout! Factory and he told me this sad-but-true fact of life:

It's just not a realistic view of the industry. It's too expensive to release these as FOUR discs, when retailers don't want them, let alone 16+. Would I rather own a complete series? Absolutely. But I don't understand why people don't seem to understand that the money is finite. We're not swimming in our Money Bin over here. I don't understand why I have to come over here on a daily basis and explain the way of the world.

1.) We pay hundreds of thousands of dollars on licensing deals. Many of these deals are for shows the studios have, in fact, already abandoned because they've proven to be poor sellers by their standards.

2.) We spend thousands of dollars on production costs (i.e. encoding, menus, authoring, QC, packaging design, music, talent, bonus material crews, etc.).

3.) We spend thousands of dollars on manufacturing. Did you know we pay per unit just to have people PUT THE DISCS INTO THE AMARAYS?!?

4.) We spend thousands of dollars on marketing. We pay to have copies sent to press. We pay to have copies sent to marketing teams (who are also paid). We pay to have those banners put up on the websites you see and in print advertising.

5.) We spend thousands of dollars to solicit to retailers.

6.) Retailers buy from us at a discounted rate.

7.) Retailers sell to you. Some of you buy them. Some of you don't.

8.) If they sell well, the retailers ask for more. We pay thousands of dollars to re-manufacture. If they don't sell well, the retailers send them back for a refund. Which costs us thousands of dollars. And then we store them. Again, thousands of dollars.

9.) If they sell well, we do the subsequent season at a lower budget, because the entire project is all under one blanket budget number. For instance, if a budget on "My Favorite TV Show" is $100,000 for production and manufacturing and we spend, say, $20,000 on S1, we have only $80,000 left to work with for subsequent seasons. Those subsequent seasons, mind you, ALWAYS sell less. You'll be hard pressed to find a second season of any show sell better than the first. The third season sells less than the second. And so on.

10.) If it's a hit show, retail never stops ordering their copies and stocking their stores. If it's not, retail stops ordering altogether and we have to make two decisions. A.) Do we continue to produce anyway? B.) Do we sell via Shout! Factory Select, where rather than sell thousands of units we sell, maybe, hundreds?

See where the linchpin is? Retail. And their sales. Sell well, continue. Don't sell well, stop dead in your tracks. Boycott all you want. But spending all of that "$100,000" on one large box set that now has to be sold at a higher price at a time when the retail buyers want smaller sets that cost less doesn't make sense. We're alienating retailers, who we rely on. And we're gambling on shows that may not have NEARLY the fan base you seem to think it does. Just because you spend time talking to devoted fans online and at family/friend barbecues doesn't mean you represent a greater fan community who all seem to think "My Favorite TV Show" needs to be sitting in their collections.

And, y'know what? I see a lot of people claiming that they'd pay whatever we charge. But that's a lie. They don't order from us at MSRP. They order from Amazon at a highly discounted rate. They order from Best Buy and Target. They order from Wal-Mart. And if the price is still too high, you wait until it comes down. Thanks. You've now sent the message that the market's not there. Again. The sets go down a bargain or clearance price and then you finally pick it up. But by then, it's too late and the retailer has already decided that they can't make any money. You're frugal? So are they.

I just don't get why this is hard to understand. You all act as if we paid those initial hundreds of thousands of dollars per project just to punch it in the stomach and then kick it again once or twice while it was down. And you along with it. There's a reason we went after those titles. We thought they deserved to be out. And so did retail, when we asked--prior to the acquisition, as they give us an idea of what they'd think they'd sell, etc. If the market doesn't appear to be there, we don't acquire it.

But let's make no mistakes here. Just because you think something is an awful TV show doesn't mean others share the same opinion. People have a wide range of tastes and none should be looked down upon for it. In fact, shows you may think are awful may have sold more units (in individual seasons, even!) than the stuff you think is good. Does that mean your shows aren't good? No. Just means some shows seem to be "worthy" to live on fans' shelves more than others.

Don't know how to explain it any more than that, without giving you exact numbers, which could cost me my job. So I'd rather not, thanks.

'til I explain this again tomorrow...

Wow.

He kind of has a good point.

[AB]

Wow, it's a wonder any of our old favorites get released. Personally, I could do without the fancy packaging & bonus features if it would help get the shows released. Also couldn't Shout Factory release shows as DVD On Demand as one option?

[ekkostar]

I would at least like up to Night Court Season 6, I can do without the rest of the series. I'd also like Season 1 of The John Larroquette Show.
I haven't bothered with many other series because of my poor experience with TV on DVD.
Unlike some people I actually save away the money to buy the DVDs as they come out retail because I know the home video companies need that first day sales to determine if the next set will come out.

[rcbrad]

Yes, he does make some good points, but he sounds kind of annoyed and almost angry (if not angry) to have to explain this. Who is he talking to, when he is objecting about coming over on a daily basis to explain "the way of the world"? Unless you are in the industry/work at Shout, who would know about all of this?

Maybe some fans were unpleasant or demanding for a reaction like this?

Why would anybody pay a higher price on the Shout website, where you can buy it for less at amazon? Additionally, the shipping from the shout website is almost triple the amazon rate. If the sets were selling well at the MSRP, (which can be high) then they would not be discounted or on sale.

thanks for posting, it was interesting to read. thanks Brian, for explaining.

[MickeyMac]

These are some of the reasons why people turn to the bootleggers.

[Silly Lily]

Originally Posted by rcbrad

Yes, he does make some good points, but he sounds kind of annoyed and almost angry (if not angry) to have to explain this. Who is he talking to, when he is objecting about coming over on a daily basis to explain "the way of the world"? Unless you are in the industry/work at Shout, who would know about all of this?

Maybe some fans were unpleasant or demanding for a reaction like this?

Why would anybody pay a higher price on the Shout website, where you can buy it for less at amazon? Additionally, the shipping from the shout website is almost triple the amazon rate. If the sets were selling well at the MSRP, (which can be high) then they would not be discounted or on sale.

thanks for posting, it was interesting to read. thanks Brian, for explaining.

He probably sounds annoyed because there's a handful of rude-ass people on the Shout boards who harass him and ruin it for the people who actually appreciate the info he gives out. There's currently someone who is trying to pass himself off as Brian and is posting false information that people believe because they see Brian's name attached to it.

[Tubehead]

i would like to see the wonder year on dvd. iread it wouldcost too much cuse of the music iwas looking forward to brooklyn birdge it got cancneld cuse they didn't think peoplewould buy it i wouldn't mind batman with adamwest i think their in court tryingto get it out on dvd i read it takeing years to trying to get batman with adam west on dvd. i woul like to see:

moreo f;
Early eidion
perfect stranger
family maatters
giveme a break
night court
mammsa family seocnd seao n only like it with bubba in them.
boy meet world seaon seven only one more lefet


need to come out on dvd:
seven days
batman with adam west
thewonder yearrs seoan one i'l be happy with best of
brokelny nbridge
jourany man
haning with mrcooer
Kung Fu: The Legend Continues

[TVFactFan]

well i revealed something I already knew, when a season doesn't sell there won't be additional seasons after that

OLD NEWS

[bmasters9]

Originally Posted by hch

But let's make no mistakes here. Just because you think something is an awful TV show doesn't mean others share the same opinion. People have a wide range of tastes and none should be looked down upon for it. In fact, shows you may think are awful may have sold more units (in individual seasons, even!) than the stuff you think is good. Does that mean your shows aren't good? No. Just means some shows seem to be "worthy" to live on fans' shelves more than others.

That's pretty much how I feel. I used to think that no one should purchase any releases of, say, "Friends" or "Seinfeld" or "Raymond," because I didn't like them when they were originally on. Now, I'm more enlightened; I'm still not going to purchase them, but I do realize that such shows, and similar ones, have their fanbases, and often very loyal ones at that (even extending to the Facebook fan pages).

It's also what I don't understand about some "Trekkies"-- why they oftentimes say that "Voyager" is the worst of all the "Trek" series. I think they say that because it didn't have a male captain like all the others ("TOS," "TAS," "TNG," "DS9," and "Enterprise") did. Personally, I thought that all the others were awful compared to "Voyager," but, as I said earlier, as with those comedies, they do have their fanbases, as does "Voyager."