Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s nasty open letter to Scottie Pippen

[simmytbone]

Hey guys,



6x NBA Champion Kareem Abdul-Jabbar scolds 6x NBA Champion Scottie Pippen as they debate the all-time best player.

Here's the story:


Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s nasty open letter to Scottie Pippen
By Kelly Dwyer

It's a tricky situation, navigating all these barroom hypothetical arguments about who's done what and who was the best at whatever. But there are some things people are missing, when it comes to Scottie Pippen's continued annihilation of the 2010-11 Chicago Bulls, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's patronizing tsk-tsk'ing of Pippen after the former Bull dared compare LeBron James' potential legacy to that of Michael Jordan's.

As you no doubt know, last week Pippen called his former teammate Michael Jordan "the greatest scorer to ever play the game," before going on to point out that LeBron James "may be the greatest player to ever play the game." Not, "LeBron James has already caught up to and/or passed Michael Jordan in terms of accomplishments," but that he may someday be the greatest ever. Pippen's right. No player with James' skills and athleticism has ever graced the NBA. If he doesn't retire as the best, then something will have gone wrong.

And though endless people took horrified offense at the thought of James and the sainted Jordan being referred to in the same breath, Kareem took umbrage at the first part of Pippen's statement in an open letter to his Hall of Fame counterpart. That he was the greatest scorer ever when, how dare you, Kareem scored more points than anyone in NBA history.

Kareem couches this personal offense with one buried mention (signing his open letter to Pippen with "Affectionately, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, NBA's All-Time Leading Scorer"; Jordan holds the NBA's best per-game scoring average) after several paragraphs spent building up the accomplishments of Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. Kareem wants to know why Jordan never averaged 50 in a season, nor dropped a hundred in a game, like Wilt did. He wants to know why Jordan never managed 11 rings, as Russell did.

He also kind of wants to be a jerk about it.

"You obviously never saw Wilt Chamberlain play who undoubtedly was the greatest scorer this game has ever known. When did MJ ever average 50.4 points per game plus 25.7 rebounds? (Wilt in the 1962 season when blocked shot statistics were not kept). We will never accurately know how many shots Wilt blocked. Oh, by the way in 1967 and 68, Wilt was a league leader in assists. Did MJ ever score 100 points in a game? How many times did MJ score more than 60 points in a game? MJ led the league in scoring in consecutive seasons for 10 years but he did this in an NBA that eventually expanded into 30 teams vs. when Wilt played and there were only 8 teams."

After rattling off this series of statistics, Abdul-Jabbar chides Pippen "to do a little homework before crowning Michael or LeBron with the title of best ever," before reminding (?) Pippen that "the ring is the thing, and everything else is just statistics." So, erm, why even bring up Chamberlain? Because Robert Horry and Steve Kerr have way more rings than Wilt, and everything else is just statistics, right?



Worst of all is Kareem's revisionist role as Wilt Chamberlain's John the Baptist. The two never liked each other (and Kareem possibly still holds some enmity with the late Chamberlain, referring to him in this open letter by Wilt's long-hated nickname, "Stilt."), and Kareem isn't too far removed from penning the infamous, "To Wilt Chumperlame" open letter from his book My Turn. In it, Kareem offered this doozy:

"People will remember that I worked with my teammates and helped us win. You will be remembered as a whining crybaby and a quitter, stats and all."

Stats that, 21 years later, Kareem can't get enough of. Stats that, even with Jordan flashing six rings to Wilt's two, are enough in Kareem's eyes to hold Wilt in higher regard over MJ.

Stats that, as we've known for years, can't really be trusted.

Because not only were Chamberlain and Russell playing a different game back then, acting as modern era athletes (hell, both Wilt and Russell to a lesser extent would be modern-era dominant all-world athletes even today) in an ancient game, but they were playing a different game amongst a different game.

There were often 30 or 40 more possessions per game back then, as shots caromed off the rim (on average) 60 percent of the time, and teams endlessly raced up and down the court as a result. It was a cherry-picking time for stats even amongst the guys who didn't have Wilt and Russell's athletic gifts, modern timing, and smarts. But for those two? With that package? It's you against a 5-year-old on a Nerf hoop, and you're allowed to shoot from wherever you want.

But that's not really the point here, is it? Kareem, obviously, is arguing on his own behalf. A classic passive/aggressive move that sees him arguing with a stats-based stance for players who scored less, rebounded less, and blocked fewer shots than Kareem.

And of course Abdul-Jabbar isn't going to point out the difference in competition and pace in his argument, or point out how the game grew significantly in the 1970s. It's the reason he averaged nearly 10 points per game fewer in his athletic prime in the late 1970s (before Magic Johnson came by, mind you, to take a bunch of shots) then he did at the young age of 24 while in Milwaukee. He knows, and it's slipping away. He's probably been doing nothing but watching cable TV and listening to talk radio over the last week, he's not even being mentioned amongst the top-five players in NBA history on some occasions, and it's clearly set him off. So much so that he's embraced the "legacy" (his word) of a former unfriendly combatant in Chamberlain.



It's all a sad show. Not unlike the way the Bulls played over the last four games of their 2010-11 run. Though the spirit of competition was there as they lost four close contests, Pippen has kept on the offensive with his pointed criticisms of a team he sat courtside to watch for most of its 98-game season.

First, in an interview with ESPN's Melissa Isaacson (someone who has covered Pippen for over 20 years), he defended Derrick Rose's terrible shooting marks from the Eastern Conference finals, blaming Chicago's lack of options beyond Rose for his litany of missed bailout shots:

"They hound [Rose] off the pick with two guys who are 6-9, so he has to make a pass," Pippen told ESPNChicago.com. "And now you give it to a guy who can't make a play. Derrick passes to Joakim, Joakim passes it back and now the shot clock is against him.

"How can you be efficient when you don't even have to make the defense move or shift, because they're not rotating to Joakim, they're not doubling Boozer. You put a little traffic around Boozer, and he couldn't hold on to the ball anyway. I don't know if his toe was the cause of [some of his poor play], but it doesn't explain bad hands. He didn't perform."

Yikes. Pippen also went on to criticize Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau for not playing big man Kurt Thomas more in the series, based on a solid regular season and an impressive (if not offensively successful) second-half performance in Game 5 last Wednesday.

Trey Kerby has the breakdown:

Unfortunately for Bulls fans, Pippen's pretty much right about all of this. Joakim Noah failed to make plays in the Eastern Conference finals, Carlos Boozer was inconsequential when he wasn't outright bad, and Tom Thibodeau probably should have played Kurt Thomas more than he did.

Such sober, spot-on analysis, Trey. Pity, because if you ramped it up a bit, you may have been a Hall of Famer.

credit: sports.yahoo.com

[Dork]

Who cares what Kareem thinks? Want a solution to this? Wilt is the best center ever and Michael is the best point guard ever, problem solved!

[70s show watcher]

i actully think that both russell and chamberlain were both better centers than kareem and im someone who is not only a huge lakers fan but who even saw kareem play in person years ago

[Tweety]

It's not correct to say that Wilt and Kareem were never friends, or never liked each other. Their big falling out occurred after Wilt retired. But they were friends from the time Kareem was in high school in the mid 60s. Wilt lived in NY at the time (as did Kareem), and Wilt kind of took Kareem (then known as Lew Alcindor) under his wing, and showed him some sights.

Kareem was actually still quite respectful of Chamberlain, but when Kareem went to the Lakers, Wilt (who lived in LA) started constantly criticizing Kareem's play... not so much his offense, but his rebounding more than anything.

Jordan only had one non-OT 60 point game in his career. I think he had about 4 or 5 sixty-point games altogether, and i believe the Bulls only won one of his 60 point games. I remember reading in the mid 1990s that, even though Wilt had been retired for more nearly 25 years, he still had more 60 point games than everyone else in the history of the NBA combined. This was also true of 50-point games for more than 15 years after he retired.

It's also true that the NBA (as well as college basketball) was constantly changing the rules in order to try to control the dominance of players like Wilt, Russell and Kareem, whereas the rules in the 80s and 90s were changed to specifically help the games of guys like Jordan... moving the 3 point line in is an obvious example. That was done specifically because Jordan was a less-than-20% 3 point shooter, and the Bulls had no inside offensive presence. The league also relaxed (and just about eliminated) the rules on traveling and palming the ball. It's much harder to look "athletic" when you actually dribble a basketball according to the actual rules of the game.

The real question that fascinates me is "Why is basketball the only major sport which tries to promote one player as being the best ever?". Baseball doesn't do that. Football doesn't do that. Why only basketball?

(there actually is a very simple answer to that question).

[Janice]

Originally Posted by Tweety

The real question that fascinates me is "Why is basketball the only major sport which tries to promote one player as being the best ever?". Baseball doesn't do that. Football doesn't do that. Why only basketball?

(there actually is a very simple answer to that question).

Okay, you've got my attention. What's the answer?

[AKA]

I'm waiting for Scottie to respond with "Kareem, you ignorant slut!"

[dlemond]

Originally Posted by Tweety

The real question that fascinates me is "Why is basketball the only major sport which tries to promote one player as being the best ever?". Baseball doesn't do that. Football doesn't do that. Why only basketball?

(there actually is a very simple answer to that question).

Is it because there are only 5 guys on a team playing at once- and playing both offense and defense?

[dlemond]

And if Wilt Chamberlain played in Jordan's era he would NEVER have scored 100 points.

If Jordan played in Chamberlains's era he could have easily scored 100 at least one time if he wanted to.

AND he would have had the retired with an untouchable most career points,

Lucky for you Kareem.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by dlemond

And if Wilt Chamberlain played in Jordan's era he would NEVER have scored 100 points.

If Jordan played in Chamberlains's era he could have easily scored 100 at least one time if he wanted to.

AND he would have had the retired with an untouchable most career points,

Lucky for you Kareem.

Wilt was (easily) the greatest athlete ever to play in the NBA. There are PLENTY of centers who played in the 90s and 2000s (even the 80s) against whom Wilt (in his prime) could have scored 100 points.

Wilt averaged 46 min/game over the course of his career. His physical stamina was unsurpassed in the history of the NBA.... if a guy plays 40 minutes in a game today, he's considered to be some kind of ironman.

Wilt went the entire 1962 season missing only EIGHT minutes of action during the entire season. He was ejected from one game with 8 minutes remaining, and those were the only 8 minutes he sat out all year. He averaged 48.5 min/game that year, because he played many more minutes of overtime play than he sat out during regulation. He played 3,882 out of a possible 3,890 minutes that year.

If you examine a list of all time leaders for minutes played in a season, you would find that Wilt occupies the top 5 spots, and 7 of the top 9.

1. Wilt Chamberlain* 3,882 1961-62 PHW
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 3,836 1967-68 PHI
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 3,806 1962-63 SFW
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 3,773 1960-61 PHW
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 3,737 1965-66 PHI
6. John Havlicek* 3,698 1971-72 BOS
7. Elvin Hayes* 3,695 1968-69 SDR
8. Wilt Chamberlain* 3,689 1963-64 SFW
9. Wilt Chamberlain* 3,682 1966-67 PHI


There isn't a center from the 90s or 2000s who could stay on the court with Wilt for a full game. Shaq's career HIGH was 40 min/game (he did that once in 19 years, exactly 40 min/game in 2000). Wilt would wear him (and everybody else) out, it wouldn't be close.

Wilt was also the strongest athlete ever to play in the NBA, and probably in any of the major sports. He used to work out with Arnold the Terminator when Arnold first came to the US. Wilt could bench over 500 pounds, even long after he retired. In fact, at age 59, he could still bench press 465, which is more than Shaq (450) can do. That was 4 years before Wilt passed away.

Guys like Wilt and Russell didn't just stand under the basket waiting to get dunked on. And Jordan's not going to score 100 points shooting mostly jump shots. The NBA was also MUCH more physical in the 60s.... Jordan wouldn't have been coddled the way he was throughout his career.

I wouldn't even try to guess how not being able to get a meal in certain cities would have affected Jordan's game. Black players used to fly into certain cities, arriving at midnight or 3:00 am, and would try to get something to eat at an all night diner. It's a crap shoot if a black man could get a meal or not.

The relaxing (or elimination) of the enforcement of rules such as palming, traveling, etc, have made it MUCH easier for offensive players since the 80s. While rules were constantly being re-written in order to try to control the dominance of guys like Wilt, Russell and Kareem, there's not one rule change that was aimed at Jordan (other than to make things easier for him).

Heck, David Stern even moved the 3 point line IN for a couple of seasons, specifically because Jordan couldn't make a 3 point shot.

Jordan never scored 70 points in an NBA game. He's not going to score 100 under any circumstances. Neither he nor anyone else (except for Wilt) has the stamina to do that.

Even when Kobe scored 81, it's tough to look at that game and find 19 more points he could have scored. They're just not there.

Speaking of Kobe and Wilt, here's a great article about a guy who, while in college, gave away a ticket to the game in which Wilt scored 100. He was a college student at the time, and a professor had scheduled an exam for the next day. So he gives away his ticket to the game in Hershey PA, and Wilt went out and scored 100. That, of course, was in 1962.

Forty four years later, in 2006, the guy's a successful businessman out in LA... in fact, he's a Lakers season ticket holder. The Lakers were playing Toronto one night, but he gave his tickets to a friend in order to attend a party. And THAT was the game in which Kobe went out and scored 81.

The guy gave away tickets to the two highest scoring individual games in NBA history... 44 years and 3,000 miles apart.

Here's the story:

Two bad moves: Man gave away tickets to see Wilt, Kobe make history

[dlemond]

You make a lot of valid points.

But the defense of those players in the 60s is nothing like the defense in Jordan's era. You're telling me that they were more physical than say the Knicks, pistons, and Bulls in the 90s? I don't think so.

The size and sheer athletic ability of the rest of the players on the teams- not just the center- would have prevened Chamberlain from ever scoring 100.
I'd like to have seen his minutes playing 7 foot centers almost every night - along with 6 10 forwards every night.

Really, player to player, team to team, the talent level of the 90s is light years beyond the 60s. Beyond the Hall of Famers, take whats left and compare that group as a whole to the 90s players.

Jordan would have run circles around them. He wouldn't have had to make jumpers. I fail to see how you think the defense of the 60s could stop him beyond tackling him. Beyond the greats I've seen enough highlights of the 60s to know the rest of those guys would have been toast. What percentage of those guys would even make it to the pros these last 2 decades?

[catlover79]

Originally Posted by AKA

I'm waiting for Scottie to respond with "Kareem, you ignorant slut!"

Game, set, match to Brad!!!

[isiahthomas]

I think Wilt was probably the best center ever and i've never seen him play but i'm amazed at his statistics in scoring, rebounding, blocked shots. I like several centers like Shaq, Patrick Ewing, Akeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Kareem, Brad Daugherty(too bad his career was cut short because of injuries). I'm surprised Scottie Pippen said what he did about Lebron may be the greatest player of all time when he played with the greatest player of all time to me. Nobody will ever surpass Michael Jordan as the greatest player of all time in my opinion. Lebron is very good but he will never be better than Michael. Ya'll see what Lebron is doing now in the finals against Dallas and he hasn't had a great series. His jumpshot isn't as good as Michael's. He doesn't drive to the basket enough like Michael did. I don't think Lebron will win as many championships as Michael.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by dlemond

You make a lot of valid points.

But the defense of those players in the 60s is nothing like the defense in Jordan's era. You're telling me that they were more physical than say the Knicks, pistons, and Bulls in the 90s? I don't think so.

The size and sheer athletic ability of the rest of the players on the teams- not just the center- would have prevened Chamberlain from ever scoring 100.
I'd like to have seen his minutes playing 7 foot centers almost every night - along with 6 10 forwards every night.

Really, player to player, team to team, the talent level of the 90s is light years beyond the 60s. Beyond the Hall of Famers, take whats left and compare that group as a whole to the 90s players.

Jordan would have run circles around them. He wouldn't have had to make jumpers. I fail to see how you think the defense of the 60s could stop him beyond tackling him. Beyond the greats I've seen enough highlights of the 60s to know the rest of those guys would have been toast. What percentage of those guys would even make it to the pros these last 2 decades?

imo,one of the best pieces of evidence as to the overall weakness of the NBA right now is the fact that Kwame Brown has had a TEN year career in the NBA. Think about it.... wouldn't you think that, of all the players all over the world, at least ONE of them might be good enough to just come over here and take Brown's job?

There's no one in the 60s or 70s who had a ten year career and who was as bad a Kwame Brown.

There have been draft busts throughout the history of the league... but Brown isn't a typical bust...he's a bust that's had a ten year career (and counting)... if there's room in the NBA for this guy to last ten years, it's not nearly as strong league as a lot of people think. There was no Kwame Brown of the 60s or 70s. If you couldn't play the game, you didn't make the team.

Defense in the 60s and 70s was quite physical, but like today's NBA, some players/teams were more physical than others. There were flagrant fouls committed in those days, but they were just fouls, there was no special rule or penalty associated with them.

And of course, there's much more to basketball than simply size. There's a reason, for example, why the tallest players in the league never lead the league in rebounding.

But looking at centers, for example... Wilt played in several NBA finals, and the centers he faced were:

1964: Bill Russell
1967: Nate Thurmond
1969: Bill Russell
1970: Willis Reed
1972: Jerry Lucas
1973: Reed and Lucas

All of the above are, of course, HOFers (as well as "Top 50" players). When you compare them with the centers that, for example, Shaq played against in the finals, it's not even close:

2000: Rik Smits
2001: Dikembe Mutombo
2002: Todd MacCulloch
2004: Ben Wallace
2006: Erick Dampier

Even though Mutombo and Wallace have been all star players, neither of them have any type of an offensive game. The other 3 guys are/were just jokes.

That's the worst thing about the NBA now imo... the extremely poor quality of big men.

Even though Wilt retired almost 40 years ago, there are far more HOF centers that he played against than there are whom he didn't play against... the only HOF centers that Wilt didn't play against (and who were selected to the HOF for their play in the NBA) are Bill Walton, Moses Malone, Robert Parrish, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson (Artis Gilmore just got in the HOF, Wilt did play against him in a couple of NBA/ABA all star games, but never in a regular season game, Gilmore did not join the NBA until the merger, which was after Wilt retired). That's a total of seven NBA players (plus there are a couple of other guys who retired before Wilt entered the league)

HOF centers that Wilt DID play against include Bill Russell, Dolph Schayes, Jerry Lucas, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Clyde Lovellette, Elvin Hayes, Dave Cowens, Bob Lanier, Walt Bellamy, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bob McAdoo,

That's about 13 HOF centers than he did play against, vs about 7 who he didn't face. Shaq and Dwight Howard are really the only NBA centers today who will definitely be HOFers.

Not only did he face those guys, but he played against them many more times per season. For example, Ewing and Olajuwon, because they played in opposite conferences, only played against each other 2x per season. Wilt and Russell, on the other hand, played 142 games against each other in ten years. Shaq didn't play 142 games in his career against HOF centers. Yet with Wilt, that was only one guy, on one team.


As far as athleticism, that's all well and good... but how athletic was the USA 2004 Olympic basketball team: Carmelo Anthony; Lebron James; Tim Duncan; Allen Iverson; Carlos Boozer; Richard Jefferson; Stephon Marbury; Shawn Marion; Lamar Odom; Emeka Okafor; Amare Stoudemire and Dwyane Wade?

Those guys came home with a BRONZE medal. Our most embarrassing Olympic moment.

And the thing is, during much of this past decade, our teams have been getting beaten in international play not by superior athletes, but by teams that play the game the very way that WE (the USA) taught them to play back in the 60 (and to some extent, the 50s).

And it's not that I'm not very proud of our 2008 team,which DID win the gold...but geez, look what they had to do to get it...they had to practice playing together for three years prior to the Olympics. To me, THAT was embarrassing. It also helped that they added Kobe to the squad (he didn't play in 2004).

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by isiahthomas

I think Wilt was probably the best center ever and i've never seen him play but i'm amazed at his statistics in scoring, rebounding, blocked shots. I like several centers like Shaq, Patrick Ewing, Akeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Kareem, Brad Daugherty(too bad his career was cut short because of injuries)....

Don't forget that Wilt was also the only non-guard to ever lead the NBA in assists. I like the centers you mentioned as well, they played "old fashioned", low-post basketball, going back to a time when the center was THE MAN! The battles between the NBAs centers was the most fun part of watching the game in the 70s.

Originally Posted by isiahthomas

...Nobody will ever surpass Michael Jordan as the greatest player of all time in my opinion...

Why not? Even if Jordan was the GOAT, why would anyone think that no one will ever be better? We're told all the time that players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic every year. Did that evolutionary trend simply stop with Jordan, never to start up again?

Was Jordan the best shooter of all time? no, not even close, although he was good.

Was he the best passer of all time? no, not even close

Was he the best rebounder of all time? no, not even among shooting guards

Was he the best defensive player of all time? No way.

Was he the best dunker of all time? I would say no, but one could make a good argument in his favor.

Is he the best clutch shooter of all time? No, but he was not afraid to take the last shot, and that's a big part of the battle. There are a handful of players (not many though) whom most coaches would choose for a last shot over Jordan... Kareem, for one.

Did he win more MVP awards than anyone? No, Kareem did (six, Jordan and Russell each have five)

Did he win more championships than anyone? No, not even close. In fact, he has as many as Kareem.

Was he so dominant that the league felt the need to re-write any rules in order to try to control his dominance? No, just the opposite...rules were re-written to help his game.

Did his team collapse when he retired? No, not the first time. The 1993 Bulls won 57 games... Jordan retired, and the Bulls still won 55 games during the following season. You lose the GOAT, and your win total drops by TWO??? Not only that, but the 1994 Bulls actually gave up FEWER points per game and held their opponents to a LOWER FG percentage without Jordan than the 93 Bulls did WITH Jordan. How does it happen that you lose a guy whom many considered to be the best defensive player in the league, and your defense actually gets BETTER during the following season??

Originally Posted by isiahthomas

.... Lebron is very good but he will never be better than Michael. Ya'll see what Lebron is doing now in the finals against Dallas and he hasn't had a great series. His jumpshot isn't as good as Michael's. He doesn't drive to the basket enough like Michael did. I don't think Lebron will win as many championships as Michael.

Time will tell, but Lebron is 26 years old, a year younger than Jordan was when Jordan won his first title. Lebron got to two NBA finals before Jordan got to his first (age wise, that is). Lebron is a much better 3 pt shooter than Jordan (Jordan's percentages during his first few years were:

1985: 17.3%
1986 16.7%
1987: 18.2%
1988: 13.2%

MJ upped it to 27% in 1989.

Only as a 19 year old rookie did Lebron shoot under 30% from 3 point land (29%). Jordan had 9 seasons in which he shot under 30% on threes. David Stern even moved the 3 point line in specifically because Jordan couldn't shoot from out there, and the Bulls needed outside help because they had no inside offensive presence.