Did Sue Ann Nivens Save 'The Mary Tyler Moore Show' After Rhoda Left??? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Brian Damage · 05-03-2011, 10:59 PM

Did the great Betty White save TMTMS after Valerie Harper's departure or was she just another cog in a well oiled machine?

Retro4Life · 05-03-2011, 11:32 PM

Don't think she really saved it, as she was a very different character and didn't see as much screen time as Rhoda did. She WAS expertly played by White, of course, and did add some real malice to the show. Ted was boorish but Sue Ann was downright mean at times, and always self centered and arrogant.

Also, I don't think the show was in any real jeopardy after Harper left. It felt her loss, for sure, but the others were more than capable of carrying on without her.

It's a credit to Betty White that such a nice person was able to so effectively play such a rotten character!

Dianne3 · 05-04-2011, 04:18 PM

MTM didn't need saving. That would be saying that viewers only watched because of Rhoda.
However, there definitely was a void after Rhoda left because that left MTM without a close friend. Sue Ann didn't fill that void of a close friend/confidant.
A major reason why I enjoy the early years is because of Mary's and Rhoda's friendship, even though on the negative side there were too many episodes centered around the guest stars and not the cast.

OH Nuts! · 05-04-2011, 06:29 PM

IMO, Betty didn't "save" the show but she surely added a lot to it. Now Lou going, that would have been a blow (on top of Rhoda anyways.)

Mary was wonderful and quite frankly, could hold her own all by herself if she had too.

old grouch · 05-05-2011, 10:14 AM

I always thought of Sue Ann more as a replacement for Phyllis than for Rhoda. But anyway, Betty White was a great addition to the show in the later years.

Miss Lisa · 05-08-2011, 01:30 AM

I wouldn't say that she saved it, but she did add a lot to the show after Rhoda had left. Although Rhoda was one of my favorite characters, everyone on that show was good. One of the few shows where the absence of characters didn't ruin it. The show never needed any saving.

Marvo301 · 05-08-2011, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old grouch

I always thought of Sue Ann more as a replacement for Phyllis than for Rhoda. But anyway, Betty White was a great addition to the show in the later years.

You make a very valid point. Sue Ann was an antagonist for Mary like Phyllis was. Not a friend like Rhoda. And Sue Ann was very good at being an antagonist!!

scotsguy · 05-08-2011, 06:54 PM

Yes I agree I saw Sue-Ann as filling the void for Phyllis rather than Rhoda.

Sue was a co-worker rather than a friend to Mary,unlike Rhoda and

Phyllis,who were friends even if Phyllis was self centred.

LittleRickyII · 05-08-2011, 09:52 PM

While Phyllis and Sue Ann were both self centered and easily annoyed Mary, there were a couple big differences between them. For one, Phyllis actually liked Mary and wanted to be around her; she was very jealous of Rhoda because Rhoda's closer friendship with Mary. Sue Ann, on the other hand, was very insecure and, consequently, did not like Mary, only pretended to. She was "friends" with Mary only because everyone else was, not because she desired her friendship.

Also, unlike Sue Ann, I don't think of Phyllis as insecure, just daffy and maybe too lost in space to recognize her own shortcomings. Sue Ann, however, was well aware of her own shortcomings and tried to compensate for them by putting down "better" people, like Mary, or desperately trying to win the affection of others (especially men), even if it meant behaving badly (which Phyllis would never do intentionally).

gopyle · 11-13-2011, 07:57 PM

SueAnn was overused on the show. The show really changed (not for the better) when Rhoda, and later Phyllis left. SueAnn and Georgette had way too much screen time.

05-03-2011, 10:59 PM	#1
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	Did Sue Ann Nivens Save 'The Mary Tyler Moore Show' After Rhoda Left??? Did the great Betty White save TMTMS after Valerie Harper's departure or was she just another cog in a well oiled machine?
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05-03-2011, 11:32 PM	#2
Retro4Life Accept No Substitutes Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 04, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 6,708	Don't think she really saved it, as she was a very different character and didn't see as much screen time as Rhoda did. She WAS expertly played by White, of course, and did add some real malice to the show. Ted was boorish but Sue Ann was downright mean at times, and always self centered and arrogant. Also, I don't think the show was in any real jeopardy after Harper left. It felt her loss, for sure, but the others were more than capable of carrying on without her. It's a credit to Betty White that such a nice person was able to so effectively play such a rotten character!
	__________________ Alex Reiger :[Trying to convince Louie not to antagonize Bobby] "It's not hard to make people feel bad about their lives. What's hard is making people feel good about their lives."

05-08-2011, 01:30 AM	#6
Miss Lisa Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 08, 2005 Location: My very own Green Acres Posts: 1,113	I wouldn't say that she saved it, but she did add a lot to the show after Rhoda had left. Although Rhoda was one of my favorite characters, everyone on that show was good. One of the few shows where the absence of characters didn't ruin it. The show never needed any saving.
	__________________ TEAM COCO ~♥~"No matter how big or soft or warm your bed is, you still have to get out of it."~♥~ - Grace Slick http://deviantrose112.posterous.com/

05-04-2011, 04:18 PM	#3
Dianne3 Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 07, 2002 Posts: 1,057	MTM didn't need saving. That would be saying that viewers only watched because of Rhoda. However, there definitely was a void after Rhoda left because that left MTM without a close friend. Sue Ann didn't fill that void of a close friend/confidant. A major reason why I enjoy the early years is because of Mary's and Rhoda's friendship, even though on the negative side there were too many episodes centered around the guest stars and not the cast.

05-04-2011, 06:29 PM	#4
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	IMO, Betty didn't "save" the show but she surely added a lot to it. Now Lou going, that would have been a blow (on top of Rhoda anyways.) Mary was wonderful and quite frankly, could hold her own all by herself if she had too.

05-05-2011, 10:14 AM	#5
old grouch Member Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2010 Location: montana Posts: 1,877	I always thought of Sue Ann more as a replacement for Phyllis than for Rhoda. But anyway, Betty White was a great addition to the show in the later years.

05-08-2011, 06:54 PM	#8
scotsguy Member Forum Regular Join Date: Nov 25, 2002 Location: Edinburgh,Scotland Posts: 696	Yes I agree I saw Sue-Ann as filling the void for Phyllis rather than Rhoda. Sue was a co-worker rather than a friend to Mary,unlike Rhoda and Phyllis,who were friends even if Phyllis was self centred.

05-08-2011, 09:52 PM	#9
LittleRickyII Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 22, 2009 Location: California Posts: 2,246	While Phyllis and Sue Ann were both self centered and easily annoyed Mary, there were a couple big differences between them. For one, Phyllis actually liked Mary and wanted to be around her; she was very jealous of Rhoda because Rhoda's closer friendship with Mary. Sue Ann, on the other hand, was very insecure and, consequently, did not like Mary, only pretended to. She was "friends" with Mary only because everyone else was, not because she desired her friendship. Also, unlike Sue Ann, I don't think of Phyllis as insecure, just daffy and maybe too lost in space to recognize her own shortcomings. Sue Ann, however, was well aware of her own shortcomings and tried to compensate for them by putting down "better" people, like Mary, or desperately trying to win the affection of others (especially men), even if it meant behaving badly (which Phyllis would never do intentionally).

11-13-2011, 07:57 PM	#10
gopyle Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 22, 2011 Posts: 235	SueAnn was overused on the show. The show really changed (not for the better) when Rhoda, and later Phyllis left. SueAnn and Georgette had way too much screen time.