Dub Wackerhagen

[Thiussat]

I find it hard to believe this case hasn't been solved. Anyone have any updates? It's hard to see any motive for anyone to have done this but him. It seems he (or his son) would have turned up by now if alive.

[mwcarolina]

Originally Posted by Thiussat

I find it hard to believe this case hasn't been solved. Anyone have any updates? It's hard to see any motive for anyone to have done this but him. It seems he (or his son) would have turned up by now if alive.

not any updates that i heard of, but it's strange too, you would think Dub or Chance or their bodies or them themselves would be found, but they havent.

[Thiussat]

Originally Posted by mwcarolina

not any updates that i heard of, but it's strange too, you would think Dub or Chance or their bodies or them themselves would be found, but they havent.

Exactly. There's only three scenarios that I see as being possible:

1) Dub killed the woman and ran off with the son.

This scenario begs the question as to why one of them haven't turned up, especially the son who is an adult now. You would think he would come forward already.

2) Dub killed both of them and either went on the run or committed suicide.

If he killed both of them, chances are he is on the run or else his body would have been found if he committed suicide. Moreover, if he also killed the kid, why didn't he just leave him at the house too?

3) Some unknown psycho killed all three of them.

This makes no sense either. First of all, if it were an unknown assailant, usually the motive in such a case would be sexual assault or robbery. Based on the segment, there was no sign of either. The woman was found in her bed fully clothed and it appeared as if she were shot while asleep. There was no robbery and there was no sign of a struggle anywhere. Moreover, such a killer usually isn't going to fool around with a man -- he will just wait until the husband/BF isn't around which means Dub would be alive and there would be no mystery as to his whereabouts. And if some unknown killer did kill all three of them, why did he abduct the man and the kid? Why not just leave their bodies there?

So, I find scenario 2 the most likely. Dub killed the woman and then ran off with the kid. Later on he killed the kid and then hid the body. This would explain why Dub's truck had blood in it that did not belong to the woman (it might have been the kid's). Nothing else makes any sense.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Thiussat

Exactly. There's only three scenarios that I see as being possible:

1) Dub killed the woman and ran off with the son.

This scenario begs the question as to why one of them haven't turned up, especially the son who is an adult now. You would think he would come forward already.

2) Dub killed both of them and either went on the run or committed suicide.

If he killed both of them, chances are he is on the run or else his body would have been found if he committed suicide. Moreover, if he also killed the kid, why didn't he just leave him at the house too?

3) Some unknown psycho killed all three of them.

This makes no sense either. First of all, if it were an unknown assailant, usually the motive in such a case would be sexual assault or robbery. Based on the segment, there was no sign of either. The woman was found in her bed fully clothed and it appeared as if she were shot while asleep. There was no robbery and there was no sign of a struggle anywhere. Moreover, such a killer usually isn't going to fool around with a man -- he will just wait until the husband/BF isn't around which means Dub would be alive and there would be no mystery as to his whereabouts. And if some unknown killer did kill all three of them, why did he abduct the man and the kid? Why not just leave their bodies there?

So, I find scenario 2 the most likely. Dub killed the woman and then ran off with the kid. Later on he killed the kid and then hid the body. This would explain why Dub's truck had blood in it that did not belong to the woman (it might have been the kid's). Nothing else makes any sense.

I agree that scenario two is most likely. I think after Dub murdered his girlfriend, he attempted to go on the run with Chance who began to go against going with his father (and abandoning his mother and remaining family and friends) and may have even put up a fight/struggle against Dub at some point and in some sort of a rage Dub killed him and then after realizing what he did killed himself. I don't see how they could both still be alive, Chance was old enough to remember everything (if he did in fact witness the murder of Dub's girlfriend), and would have wanted to get in touch with his mother at least once over the years to let her know he was ok.

[MegtheEgg86]

There's a fourth possibility: Dub killed Latricia, attempted to go on the run with Chance, and both were murdered by a third party in Austin. I'm not sure whether I'm willing to believe Dub had the capacity to murder his own son. His paternal protectionism of Chance against Latricia's chastisements doesn't suggest he would likely engage in such an act, but that alone doesn't necessarily preclude that possibility. Was Chance even aware that Latricia had been murdered? It's been a long time since I've watched the segment.

EDIT: I pulled up the unsolved.com profile of the case. Dub and Chance lived in Lockhart, TX. It's twenty-five miles away from Austin. They apparently didn't go far.

[mwcarolina]

Originally Posted by Thiussat

Exactly. There's only three scenarios that I see as being possible.

well, there COULD be more than 3, i will explain later.

Originally Posted by Thiussat

1) Dub killed the woman and ran off with the son.
This scenario begs the question as to why one of them haven't turned up, especially the son who is an adult now. You would think he would come forward already.

i tend to agree with what you wrote here. IF Dub just killed her, why hasnt Chance came forward???? My only thoughts is maybe Chance is brainwashed in believing that someone else did this, but my issue is one of them would've been seen. Especially if Dub put Chance back in school.

Originally Posted by Thiussat

2) Dub killed both of them and either went on the run or committed suicide..

i tend to agree with this, BUT i dont agree with the suicide part. i think (if he killed both) he did it at two different places, hid Chance's body (so people would think both are victims) and Dub is still alive and likely changed his name and appearance.

Originally Posted by Thiussat

3) Some unknown psycho killed all three of them..

that COULD be possible too, but why would this psycho hide two of the bodies????

Originally Posted by Thiussat

So, I find scenario 2 the most likely. Dub killed the woman and then ran off with the kid. Later on he killed the kid and then hid the body. This would explain why Dub's truck had blood in it that did not belong to the woman (it might have been the kid's). Nothing else makes any sense.

yep, true. i think that the blood could be Chance's. Now other ideas are, it could be that Dub killed his girlfriend, then Dub and Chance ran into foul play by someone.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

There's a fourth possibility: Dub killed Latricia, attempted to go on the run with Chance, and both were murdered by a third party in Austin. I'm not sure whether I'm willing to believe Dub had the capacity to murder his own son. His paternal protectionism of Chance against Latricia's chastisements doesn't suggest he would likely engage in such an act, but that alone doesn't necessarily preclude that possibility. Was Chance even aware that Latricia had been murdered? It's been a long time since I've watched the segment.

EDIT: I pulled up the unsolved.com profile of the case. Dub and Chance lived in Lockhart, TX. It's twenty-five miles away from Austin. They apparently didn't go far.

Who would have a motive to kill Dub and Chance? And the odds that Dub murders Latricia and THEN runs into a random psychopath who murders him and Chance are very slim, to say the least. Chance may not have known if Latricia was murdered, but he would still question his father as he got older about seeing his mother and other family members.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Who would have a motive to kill Dub and Chance? And the odds that Dub murders Latricia and THEN runs into a random psychopath who murders him and Chance are very slim, to say the least. Chance may not have known if Latricia was murdered, but he would still question his father as he got older about seeing his mother and other family members.

I'm not actively promoting the theory; I'm just presenting it as a possibility. It seems equally likely as the other aforementioned scenarios to have occured given the limited information we have on the case. It's certainly just as likely as Dub accidentally killing his son, then committing suicide.

Certainly I cannot provide you a response on who would have a motive to kill the Wackerhagens, but I personally don't see a likely motive for Dub to have killed Chance. Dub repeatedly engaged in arguments with Latricia about his son, and in fact almost left her over her alleged treatment of Chance. I don't feel the boy's possible protests (the two were only going a short distance away, and it is unknown under what pretense Dub got his son into the truck in the first place--if that IS what happened. For all Chance knew, he may have believed he was taking a routine trip into Austin), nor the likelihood that "he'd talk" or question his father later on seem plausible to me. Why even take the boy if he's going to be a pain in the ass? Why take him if you don't just want the "satisfaction" of keeping him away from your ex-wife? Why take him if you don't genuinely love him? I'm struggling with the notion that Dub would make an effort to gather his son if all he was going to do was kill him, or that he physically abused him to the point of death, as there's no evidence that I'm aware of to indicate Dub had ever been violent with his son.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

I'm not actively promoting the theory; I'm just presenting it as a possibility. It seems equally likely as the other aforementioned scenarios to have occured given the limited information we have on the case. It's certainly just as likely as Dub accidentally killing his son, then committing suicide.

Certainly I cannot provide you a response on who would have a motive to kill the Wackerhagens, but I personally don't see a likely motive for Dub to have killed Chance. Dub repeatedly engaged in arguments with Latricia about his son, and in fact almost left her over her alleged treatment of Chance. I don't feel the boy's possible protests (the two were only going a short distance away, and it is unknown under what pretense Dub got his son into the truck in the first place--if that IS what happened. For all Chance knew, he may have believed he was taking a routine trip into Austin), nor the likelihood that "he'd talk" or question his father later on seem plausible to me. Why even take the boy if he's going to be a pain in the ass? Why take him if you don't just want the "satisfaction" of keeping him away from your ex-wife? Why take him if you don't genuinely love him? I'm struggling with the notion that Dub would make an effort to gather his son if all he was going to do was kill him, or that he physically abused him to the point of death, as there's no evidence that I'm aware of to indicate Dub had ever been violent with his son.

I don't think he took Chance with him with the intent to kill him, and he didn't anticipate the fact that Chance would start to question why they fled (that is of course if Chance didn't witness the killing of Latricia). Remember Chance was only there visiting for Christmas, so Dub simply could have taken him back home to his mother's if he planned on going on the run. But we also have to remember Latricia was shot six times, what are the odds that Chance would have slept through that? The possibility that Chance witnessed the actual crime or aftermath is very high. While Dub may have been very protective of Chance around Latricia, he still was obviously unstable enough to murder Latricia without any signs of having a motive to do so. Is it that much of a stretch to think he would kill Chance as well? Especially if he witnessed the crime. Maybe he did take Chance against his will and got as far as Austin before he killed him. There was blood found in Dub's abandoned truck which was determined to not be Latricia's. So someone else bled in that truck. Which tells me that it had to be Chance, for if it were Dub wouldn't there be a sign of him somewhere?

[TheCars1986]

Don't know if anyone had ever posted or read this article before, but as of last year it seemed like there were some potential new leads in this case (as well as details UM left out). Here's a link:

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/N...l-Co-cold-case

After reading that it seems like Dub in fact did flee and his family was helping him and he very well still may be alive to this day.

[biscuitgirl]

Wow, after reading that article, I definitely see how Dub could be the perpitrator. It says Latricia was shot in the head 6 times - that certainly signifies a crime of passion. The fact that Dub's truck was found abandoned near the airport as well... I'm pretty sure Dub did it and fled. The real question is Chance. Since there was blood in the backseat of the car, I wonder if Dub planned to flee with Chance but perhaps Chance was distraught and so Dub shot him in the heat of the moment. I wonder if Dub then disposed of Chance's body near where the car was abandoned, then hitched a ride to the airport and fled to Mexico. This seems to be the most plausible explanation. I would love to see this one solved.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Don't know if anyone had ever posted or read this article before, but as of last year it seemed like there were some potential new leads in this case (as well as details UM left out). Here's a link:

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/N...l-Co-cold-case

After reading that it seems like Dub in fact did flee and his family was helping him and he very well still may be alive to this day.

Wow, there were two important facts in that report that the UM broadcast didn't mention: The fact that a call was made from Dub's phone days after the murder and that Chance's bloody footprint was found at the scene.

Both of these are pretty crucial, it says that even if Dub is dead now he likely was not murdered at the scene.

I remember in the other thread someone suggested what if Chance shot Letricia and Dub took him on the run to protect him? If Chance's bloody footprint was found at the scene suddenly that seems more plausible. It still doesn't prove he did it but it actually makes more sense now.

If Dub's family is protecting him as they said they now have reason to believe, it makes more sense they would protect Chance as opposed to a grown man.

However, it still doesn't explain the bloodstains in Dub's truck that don't belong to Letricia.

I'm definitely more inclined to think the truth may come out about this after reading that article than I was before.

And Dub managing to elude capture all these years makes a lot more sense if his family is helping and in contact with them.

I also wonder if Dub's father's suicide had anything to do with this?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by XCalibur

I also wonder if Dub's father's suicide had anything to do with this?

I also thought the same exact thing. As for the blood stains in Dub's truck, they almost certainly had to come from Chance. Who else could have inflicted damage to Dub in a two person seated truck? If Dub AND Chance were both victims wouldn't there be an abnormal amount of blood found in the truck? The blood was found all over the Christmas presents as well, so that makes it more likely to be Chance's blood, IMHO. As sick as it sounds (and this is just pure speculation on my part), maybe Dub used the presents as a way to "distract" Chance so he could kill him? I would imagine Chance would be close to hysterics if he just witnessed his father murder someone, maybe the presents were a way to attempt to calm him down? I never really considered the possibility that Chance shot Latricia, but I find that scenario highly. A nine year old would struggle holding a gun, can you imagine one shooting a gun six times and all shots connecting nonetheless? Chance's footprint at the scene tells me he witnessed his father kill Latricia, and possibly tried to intervene in some way before Dub took him and they fled.

The phone call placed from Dub's truck is interesting as well. It lasted ten minutes, and there's no doubt it was Dub calling someone in his family to tell him what happened and where he was taking off to. I just wish they could track the records to see who the call was placed to. Maybe Dub's father, which would explain his suicide. The plot just keeps getting thicker.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I also thought the same exact thing. As for the blood stains in Dub's truck, they almost certainly had to come from Chance. Who else could have inflicted damage to Dub in a two person seated truck? If Dub AND Chance were both victims wouldn't there be an abnormal amount of blood found in the truck? The blood was found all over the Christmas presents as well, so that makes it more likely to be Chance's blood, IMHO. As sick as it sounds (and this is just pure speculation on my part), maybe Dub used the presents as a way to "distract" Chance so he could kill him? I would imagine Chance would be close to hysterics if he just witnessed his father murder someone, maybe the presents were a way to attempt to calm him down? I never really considered the possibility that Chance shot Latricia, but I find that scenario highly. A nine year old would struggle holding a gun, can you imagine one shooting a gun six times and all shots connecting nonetheless? Chance's footprint at the scene tells me he witnessed his father kill Latricia, and possibly tried to intervene in some way before Dub took him and they fled.

The phone call placed from Dub's truck is interesting as well. It lasted ten minutes, and there's no doubt it was Dub calling someone in his family to tell him what happened and where he was taking off to. I just wish they could track the records to see who the call was placed to. Maybe Dub's father, which would explain his suicide. The plot just keeps getting thicker.

I admit its unlikely, but not impossible. Typically .22 caliber pistols are not very heavy and don't have a lot of recoil, and nine year olds vary in size and strength. I don't know how big a kid Chance was, but since his dad was a big man it stands to reason he might be pretty big for a nine year old as well. I've known nine year old kids who were far from helpless.

Like I said, I still don't think its likely, it would still be something for a kid that age to pump six bullets into someone's head, but not impossible.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by biscuitgirl

Wow, after reading that article, I definitely see how Dub could be the perpitrator. It says Latricia was shot in the head 6 times - that certainly signifies a crime of passion. The fact that Dub's truck was found abandoned near the airport as well... I'm pretty sure Dub did it and fled. The real question is Chance. Since there was blood in the backseat of the car, I wonder if Dub planned to flee with Chance but perhaps Chance was distraught and so Dub shot him in the heat of the moment. I wonder if Dub then disposed of Chance's body near where the car was abandoned, then hitched a ride to the airport and fled to Mexico. This seems to be the most plausible explanation. I would love to see this one solved.

But they think Dub's family may be in contact with him and protecting him, and I could see them doing it for killing just a girlfriend. But it seems highly unlikely they would protect him for killing Chance. Blood gets even thicker when its a child everyone is talking about.

That doesn't explain the blood in the truck though.

I still haven't discounted the possibility of an unknown third party being involved.