Was It A Bad Idea To Make Nazis Likeable On 'Hogan's Heroes?' - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Brian Damage · 12-29-2010, 06:40 PM

Was it a bad idea to make the Nazis actually funny likeable characters? Do you think that has hurt its longevity in syndication and dvd sales?

tv star collector · 12-29-2010, 07:18 PM

Klink was certainly funny (usually unintentionally), but Schultz is the only one
that I would describe as likeable.

cocytus · 12-29-2010, 07:43 PM

When the show was on the air, WWII was only a few years in the past and it was still a very "sore" point for many people. Given that fact, unless the show was mostly a comedy and didn't touch on the Holocaust at all...it wouldn't have even been made.

Marvo301 · 12-29-2010, 07:56 PM

They didn't make the Nazi's likeable so much as they made them idiots. That allowed us as viewers to feel oh so superior to them and able to laugh at them and at how Hogan and the other POW's outsmarted them week after week. And that was what made this series work. It clearly defined Hogan and company as the good guys and the Nazi's as the bad guys. It told us who to cheer for and who to jeer. I think it was a very smart choice by the producers to depict the Nazi's that way.

Zebra 3 · 12-30-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tv star collector

(...) but Schultz is the only one that I would describe as likeable.

And Schultz wasn't a Nazi...

The PC Brigade over at TV Guide now attack this Emmy winning sitcom.

treky · 01-01-2011, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocytus

When the show was on the air, WWII was only a few years in the past and it was still a very "sore" point for many people. Given that fact, unless the show was mostly a comedy and didn't touch on the Holocaust at all...it wouldn't have even been made.

A FEW YEARS???

Try 20 years!

cocytus · 01-01-2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treky

A FEW YEARS???

Try 20 years!

Yes, it was 20 years. However, while that may seem a long time for you, there were cities in Europe that still had bombed out buildings from the war and there were people for whom the war seemed like only yesterday.

If they hadn't made the Nazi's somewhat "inept" and "comical" it's doubtful w/ WWII being such a recent event that this show would have succeeded.

Sitcom Collector · 01-02-2011, 09:28 AM

Mel Brooks said once that if you want to insult your enemy, slap him in the face. But if you want to vanquish him, turn him into a buffoon.
Certainly "The Producers" did that to the Nazis as did Hogan's Heroes. HH was a spoof on the various WW2 POW/commando movies and TV shows that were popular at the time.
What I find interesting is nobody (in the US anyway) fusses over the Britcom "Allo Allo", which went much farther than HH in humanizing the Germans. I have both shows on DVD and love them. Watch them side to side sometime. You will see the difference, and I don't mean the sex humor. Nazis on HH got KILLED. Allo Allo was far kinder to them.
Interestingly Allo Allo was also a spoof of a dramatic WW2 series "Secret Army".
BTW, the first to spoof the Nazi regime was the Three Stooges, pre-dating Charlie Chaplin's Great Dictator by six months.

Bonsai · 01-09-2011, 03:01 AM

Exactly right-----the use of farce to make the Nazis buffoons was the key element. Remember that the real-life Germans in the cast were Jewish and had to flee the Third Reich.

Robert Clary was in a concentration camp---something he now does speaking engagements about to raise awareness. (Check out his multi-part video "Robert Clary and the Holocaust" on Youtube)

The fact that they felt comfortable doing the show speaks volumes.

Besides, it could be easily argued that Klink and Schultz were not ideological nazis at all. Klink was just a spineless idiotic career officer and brown-noser------and Schultz was about as apolitical as one could get. The actual dedicated nazi characters were neither likeable nor sympathetic.

Dr. Thong · 01-09-2011, 11:04 AM

When I watched this as a young kid, I had no concept of WWII or the Nazis. So I just watched and enjoyed it. However, as an adult, it is kind of tasteless to do a sitcom about POWs at a Nazi concentration camp.

But on the other hand, they did make the Nazis into cartoonish buffoons.

It is what it is. I'm still on the fence about the tastelessness factor, though.

Bonsai · 01-09-2011, 11:24 PM

Just to clarify------Hogan's Heroes was NOT set in a concentration camp. It was set in a P.O.W. camp.

TV Knowledge Fan · 01-10-2011, 12:36 AM

...was basically a satire of "Stalag 17" (which the original authors later sued Bing Crosby Productions and CBS for being too close to the original play and movie; a settlement was eventually reached out of court). In that sense, the only "bad Nazis" were the military officers and Gestapo agents unfortunate enough to be pitted against Col. Hogan- they were either captured by Allied forces, or dispatched off-screen by explosions and the like. Obviously, Col. Klink and Sgt. Schultz were "nice people" who were "caught up" in World War II, and forced into military service....

treky · 01-11-2011, 03:46 PM

in, I think 1973,Paramount-the studio that made "STALAG 17-brought suit against CBS and Bing Crosby productions, because in-I think-1961 Paramount offered them a scrift for a pilot based on "STALAG 17" but CBS refused it; then in 1965 they came out with "HOGANS HEROES".

Like "TV knowledge fan" said; the suit was settled out of court though.

treky · 01-11-2011, 03:53 PM

I just realized, some people here may not know what "STALAG 17" was. It was a comedy/drama about a group of american officers in a German prison camp during world war 2. It's a good movie!

Sitcom Collector · 01-11-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treky

I just realized, some people here may not know what "STALAG 17" was. It was a comedy/drama about a group of american officers in a German prison camp during world war 2. It's a good movie!

Stalag 17 was a straight drama with a few funny scenes. Bill Holden, who won an Oscar for that role is unforgettable. It was far more realistic and rougher than HH. The final scene in which they throw the German spy (Peter Graves) out into the compound, with cans attatched to him, to get gunned down by his own fellow Germans is powerful.
In HH all the Germans were killed offscreen.

12-29-2010, 06:40 PM	#1
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,108	Was It A Bad Idea To Make Nazis Likeable On 'Hogan's Heroes?' Was it a bad idea to make the Nazis actually funny likeable characters? Do you think that has hurt its longevity in syndication and dvd sales?
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12-29-2010, 07:18 PM	#2
tv star collector I Love Susie Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 18, 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 4,486	Klink was certainly funny (usually unintentionally), but Schultz is the only one that I would describe as likeable.
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12-29-2010, 07:56 PM	#4
Marvo301 I'm NOT a Blockhead! Forum Celebrity Join Date: May 17, 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 21,450	They didn't make the Nazi's likeable so much as they made them idiots. That allowed us as viewers to feel oh so superior to them and able to laugh at them and at how Hogan and the other POW's outsmarted them week after week. And that was what made this series work. It clearly defined Hogan and company as the good guys and the Nazi's as the bad guys. It told us who to cheer for and who to jeer. I think it was a very smart choice by the producers to depict the Nazi's that way.
	__________________ Only a life lived for others is worth living. Albert Einstein A life isn't worth living unless it has impact on other lives. Jackie Robinson Be always at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let each new year find you a better man. Benjamin Franklin

01-09-2011, 03:01 AM	#9
Bonsai Gilligan Ambassador Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 356	Exactly right-----the use of farce to make the Nazis buffoons was the key element. Remember that the real-life Germans in the cast were Jewish and had to flee the Third Reich. Robert Clary was in a concentration camp---something he now does speaking engagements about to raise awareness. (Check out his multi-part video "Robert Clary and the Holocaust" on Youtube) The fact that they felt comfortable doing the show speaks volumes. Besides, it could be easily argued that Klink and Schultz were not ideological nazis at all. Klink was just a spineless idiotic career officer and brown-noser------and Schultz was about as apolitical as one could get. The actual dedicated nazi characters were neither likeable nor sympathetic.
	__________________ I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.------Mahatma Gandhi

01-09-2011, 11:04 AM	#10
Dr. Thong a/k/a "ACK!" Forum Veteran Join Date: Jul 10, 2001 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 5,545	When I watched this as a young kid, I had no concept of WWII or the Nazis. So I just watched and enjoyed it. However, as an adult, it is kind of tasteless to do a sitcom about POWs at a Nazi concentration camp. But on the other hand, they did make the Nazis into cartoonish buffoons. It is what it is. I'm still on the fence about the tastelessness factor, though.
	__________________ "Sunday has been cancelled due to lack of interest. That is all."

12-29-2010, 07:43 PM	#3
cocytus Member Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 15, 2010 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 781	When the show was on the air, WWII was only a few years in the past and it was still a very "sore" point for many people. Given that fact, unless the show was mostly a comedy and didn't touch on the Holocaust at all...it wouldn't have even been made.

01-02-2011, 09:28 AM	#8
Sitcom Collector Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 12, 2010 Posts: 31	Mel Brooks said once that if you want to insult your enemy, slap him in the face. But if you want to vanquish him, turn him into a buffoon. Certainly "The Producers" did that to the Nazis as did Hogan's Heroes. HH was a spoof on the various WW2 POW/commando movies and TV shows that were popular at the time. What I find interesting is nobody (in the US anyway) fusses over the Britcom "Allo Allo", which went much farther than HH in humanizing the Germans. I have both shows on DVD and love them. Watch them side to side sometime. You will see the difference, and I don't mean the sex humor. Nazis on HH got KILLED. Allo Allo was far kinder to them. Interestingly Allo Allo was also a spoof of a dramatic WW2 series "Secret Army". BTW, the first to spoof the Nazi regime was the Three Stooges, pre-dating Charlie Chaplin's Great Dictator by six months.

01-09-2011, 11:24 PM	#11
Bonsai Gilligan Ambassador Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 356	Just to clarify------Hogan's Heroes was *NOT* set in a concentration camp. It was set in a P.O.W. camp.

01-10-2011, 12:36 AM	#12
TV Knowledge Fan Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 29, 2006 Location: Long Branch, N.J. Posts: 2,577	"HOGAN'S HEROES"... ...was basically a satire of "Stalag 17" (which the original authors later sued Bing Crosby Productions and CBS for being too close to the original play and movie; a settlement was eventually reached out of court). In that sense, the only "bad Nazis" were the military officers and Gestapo agents unfortunate enough to be pitted against Col. Hogan- they were either captured by Allied forces, or dispatched off-screen by explosions and the like. Obviously, Col. Klink and Sgt. Schultz were "nice people" who were "caught up" in World War II, and forced into military service....

01-11-2011, 03:46 PM	#13
treky star trek fan Eternal Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Feb 25, 2002 Location: Conshohocken, pennsylvania Posts: 14,490	in, I think 1973,Paramount-the studio that made "STALAG 17-brought suit against CBS and Bing Crosby productions, because in-I think-1961 Paramount offered them a scrift for a pilot based on "STALAG 17" but CBS refused it; then in 1965 they came out with "HOGANS HEROES". Like "TV knowledge fan" said; the suit was settled out of court though.

01-11-2011, 03:53 PM	#14
treky star trek fan Eternal Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Feb 25, 2002 Location: Conshohocken, pennsylvania Posts: 14,490	I just realized, some people here may not know what "STALAG 17" was. It was a comedy/drama about a group of american officers in a German prison camp during world war 2. It's a good movie!